Scottish Independence

[zerostao]

rejects independence.

i'll cancel my travel plans.

[Blackfinger]

"Fans of psychological projection, blamestorming and scapegoating were over the moon last night after First Minister Alex Salmond won them an important concession in the lead-up to next week’s historic referendum. It has been confirmed that, even when Scotland has become a strong, world respected nation with a flourishing economy and healthy population, it will still have an option to ‘blame everything on the English’.

 

Some experts feared that Scotland’s booming economy and spreading bonhomie might change the national character forever. The feel good factor, surging national confidence and removal of all the chains that held them back could, ironically, have a detrimental effect on the nation, the experts warned.

 

It was claimed that ancient traditions and rituals could be abandoned as Scotland spirals into a life of gay abandon and ‘goodwill to all Englishmen’. ‘Scotland could be sleepwalking into happiness and content and, even worse, could lose its sense of grievance,’ warned one expert, who added further claims that Scotland could exhibit all the terrible symptoms of ‘new baby syndrome’.

 

However, Salmond was quick to reassure the electorate that England will not lose its ‘Great Satan’ status anytime soon. ‘Mark my words, England will continue to be the core reason for any current or future hardships Scotland endure, as well as the butt of every joke when we’re doing well and they aren’t’, he said.

 

The confident leader went on to explain that England has already been ‘pre-blamed’ for several future events, including bad weather, catastrophic outbreaks of disease like smallpox and ebola, and all future underwhelming performances from Andy Murray."

[dust]

Where I come from, at one point it was a label for political undesirables.

 

People are impossible. All of us.

 

Wow...

 

And yes, we are. Me more than some

[Chang]

What this thread needed was a real Scots views on independence. Well better late than never.

 

[zerostao]

willie made sense to me lol. they shoulda used his persuasive rant in the campaign.

i offer a toast to the 45% there in scotland and it will always be the minority who savors and understands independence.

the majority always being weak and frail and needing to be dependent.

when the numbers dont crunch so well, passion could come into play, who has the more passion, resolve, and will?

not likely such exists over in what used to be ancient scotland.

i reckon the true spirit of the rugged scots left scotland long ago and settled into appalachia

the ones here make better whisky too.

here is some image of what an independent scot would look like, yes, this is just make up hollywood stuff,

[Apech]

willie made sense to me lol. they shoulda used his persuasive rant in the campaign.

i offer a toast to the 45% there in scotland and it will always be the minority who savors and understands independence.

the majority always being weak and frail and needing to be dependent.

when the numbers dont crunch so well, passion could come into play, who has the more passion, resolve, and will?

not likely such exists over in what used to be ancient scotland.

i reckon the true spirit of the rugged scots left scotland long ago and settled into appalachia

the ones here make better whisky too.

here is some image of what an independent scot would look like, yes, this is just make up hollywood stuff,

...

 

As an American I thought maybe you would understand the concept of strength in union. The tendency nowadays of everyone who disagrees with others or has a different cultural heritage being unable to stand their neighbours and thus break off into another country - witness the break up of the balkan states - is a weakness and not a strength. Working together is a strength and the secret of success, or so I believe.

 

The two most successful nations of the last 200 years ...United Kingdom and United States.

[zerostao]

As an American I thought maybe you would understand the concept of strength in union. The tendency nowadays of everyone who disagrees with others or has a different cultural heritage being unable to stand their neighbours and thus break off into another country - witness the break up of the balkan states - is a weakness and not a strength. Working together is a strength and the secret of success, or so I believe.

 

The two most successful nations of the last 200 years ...United Kingdom and United States.

your concept of union sounds great on paper and in theory. i am an Appalachian American and my anarchist ideology has been expressed since my arrival on this site. i always speak of self reliance, independence, and self responsibility. i understand from my vantage point that these "unions" are all about the elites getting the better deal at the expense of the others. i know first hand what its like to have the rich natural resources extracted and nothing given in return except for some wage jobs that only last as long as the resources do. same old story, the rich keep getting richer and the poor remain poor. the gap always widens and when elections dont work, eventually the pitchforks reign for a moment. i thought one of the issues there was the austerity ideas of the elites that should apply to everyone else? i agree that the 2 most successful empires of the past 200 years are the 2 that you name and look where we are as a planet now.

[Apech]

your concept of union sounds great on paper and in theory. i am an Appalachian American and my anarchist ideology has been expressed since my arrival on this site. i always speak of self reliance, independence, and self responsibility. i understand from my vantage point that these "unions" are all about the elites getting the better deal at the expense of the others. i know first hand what its like to have the rich natural resources extracted and nothing given in return except for some wage jobs that only last as long as the resources do. same old story, the rich keep getting richer and the poor remain poor. the gap always widens and when elections dont work, eventually the pitchforks reign for a moment. i thought one of the issues there was the austerity ideas of the elites that should apply to everyone else? i agree that the 2 most successful empires of the past 200 years are the 2 that you name and look where we are as a planet now.

 

That's an incredibly negative view of history. These unions are not theory - that's the point - they are actually and functional. And they are based on enlightened self interest of the parties involved. Your way - we would ultimately devolve down to the smallest units, the tribe, the family or just a person all incapable of living in community with others - of facing the shared experience, compromise, wealth and stability that comes from community.

 

Anyway that's what I think. I like to be practical not romantic.

[Jetsun]

 

William Wallace looking remarkably like Mel Gibson kept in a protective cage... says a lot.

[zerostao]

That's an incredibly negative view of history. These unions are not theory - that's the point - they are actually and functional. And they are based on enlightened self interest of the parties involved. Your way - we would ultimately devolve down to the smallest units, the tribe, the family or just a person all incapable of living in community with others - of facing the shared experience, compromise, wealth and stability that comes from community.

 

Anyway that's what I think. I like to be practical not romantic.

who is being negative? you dont think that families, tribes, clans are capable of getting along with others in community?

i admit i live a comfortable lifestyle because i am an american, i own property, am not in debt, and dont have to work for anyone. i should remain practical ? and not consider that my good fortune is due to someone somewhere being hornswoggled by the elites. its a really sweet deal for me.

 

edit> i do trust my neighbors more than the multinational banksters

Edited September 19, 2014 by zerostao

[Apech]

who is being negative? you dont think that families, tribes, clans are capable of getting along with others in community?

i admit i live a comfortable lifestyle because i am an american, i own property, am not in debt, and dont have to work for anyone. i should remain practical ? and not consider that my good fortune is due to someone somewhere being hornswoggled by the elites. its a really sweet deal for me.

 

I'm all for individual freedom - don't get me wrong. In fact the philosophy that underpins the west is this for me ... individual liberty and the rule of law (which protects this freedom). I'm not saying this doesn't go wrong .. like now for instance. I would say that the US for instance was a force for good and liberty in the world up to the 1950s or so. the idea that free thinking people can join together is a good things.

[Infinity]

Love him or hate him (I think he is maturing into something pretty good!) I thought this was insightful:

 

 

Cameron is a nurtured representative of the corporations.

 

I am all for breaking down the pyramid ruling structures and increasing self responsibility and self awareness to the masses. Treat people like babies and some of them will start acting like them.

 

Pyramid power structures remove individuals from their actions so they act like robots with instructions. Lacking responsibility they are unaware or feel not responsible of their part in the cause and effect of there actions and thus powerless in their communities.

 

I don't think unions have to have such big hierarchies but the UK has and it seems to me the EU has even more.

 

Apparently in the UK 95% of all taxes from the tax payers in the counties go to central government. This issue on independence hopefully will have repercussion which devolve the power of Westminster somewhat!

 

∞

Edited September 19, 2014 by Infinity

[joeblast]

 

In America,...although most believe in a majority rule system,...America is in fact, one nation under a Constitution.

pardon, I just had to guffaw with nostalgia at that ancient relic of an idea

 

can put the constitution in the cage next to ol will there. followed by our representation when it suits tptb, completely ignored with the shallowest and shittiest of excuses (even if those themselves are illegal, like the justices writing law) when important to some group's goals.

 

 

and yeah, unfortunately I called this vote. engineered.

[GrandmasterP]

Polls have closed now so we'll know eventually.

My call... No by a narrow margin.

However it pans out they'll still have a bunch of politicians running the show.

 

Yay...

He shoots.

He scores.

GOAL!!!

Scotland voted 'No' by a narrow margin.

 

Very wise.

[Chang]

Wisest remark of all:-

However it pans out they'll still have a bunch of politicians running the show.

[zerostao]

Why?

because going to a scotland that chose to be independent was a very exciting idea. i visit places as much for the spirit of the place as i would to see the natural landscape and enjoy the culture.,

[Apech]

because going to a scotland that chose to be independent was a very exciting idea. i visit places as much for the spirit of the place as i would to see the natural landscape and enjoy the culture.,

 

Would you expect to see some kilted gentlemen striding across the Highlands with broadsword in hand?

[zerostao]

to say this in the old south usa religious speak; scotland fumbled the ball on the goal line. and snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

 

i can relate to JB's guffaw more than any cackle from hillary,,,i digress as usual,,i find it interesting that joeblast, taomeow, and myself---all from different vantage points and perspectives, each of us entirely different backgrounds,from 3 very distinct corners of but each of us here in america today have come to a very similar view of whats going on. the video that infinity posted was spot on.

 

the greatest union appears to be the corporate union of absolute power which aims to homogenize each and everyone of us into a united state of ready consumers and rid us of our own unique individualism.to take away self reliance which would hinder the need for these corps'. i have witnessed it here in america, it is real. dis-empowering the population is the evolutionary tract that we are on.

i think the romanticism is thinking that these unions lift up the down trodden, in fact they trample further upon and ruthlessly punish all non-conformity, individualism, and dissent. there is a reason that america is arming its police to the teeth these days and it has little to do with foreign terrorists(this trend began pre-9/11). of course the brittish were alarmed that scotland ('s oil) might have chosen to leave. i seriously doubt that scotland would have been allowed to leave if the vote had gone different. false flag coincidental events are not just an american phenomenon but the work of the corporate union and multi-national banksters. its so obvious, i reckon i'll go to legal zoom and form my own corporation today, it is just that easy to join the evil empire union. not sure if my corporation should have the goal of being a bank , pharmaceutical, or gmo food brand. each of these choices further enslaves regular folks.

and politicians dont run anything themself they are merely the paid puppets/front men of the elites. money is the only law, money is the only free speech. so yeah, i'll choose to join up with money and yeah slavery is great for everyone else.

cameron will soon be my bitch too

 

"Would you expect to see some kilted gentlemen striding across the Highlands with broadsword in hand? "

of course not i already stated how corps' unions have taken away all individuality

Edited September 19, 2014 by zerostao

[Chang]

Would you expect to see some kilted gentlemen striding across the Highlands with broadsword in hand?

 

And a bowl of Scott's Porage Oats in the other hand.

 

[joeblast]

its called collateral, and the brits need to be able to borrow against that northern oil. people are starting to catch on that financialization is nothing but a nigerian email scam.

[Apech]

.....

 

"Would you expect to see some kilted gentlemen striding across the Highlands with broadsword in hand? "

of course not i already stated how corps' unions have taken away all individuality

 

I just snipped that to cut down the repaste ... your ideas are great no doubt ... as are Russell Brand's in that video ... but I think this vote was not about what you think it was about. Scotland has been in union with England for 300 years and actually a hundred years before that there was already a union because the Scottish King (James I) was the Scottish king (and that's what counted in those days. Many English like me are part Scottish (my grandfather) and many Scottish are part English. And despite this 400 year (longer than the existence of the USA) the Scottish have not lost their separate culture and identity - nor have the Welsh, Irish, Cornish ... even the division North to South which goes back to the Vikings and the Saxons has not gone away in terms of different attitudes, dialects and so on. So that's a cultural division which goes back maybe a 1000 years. Scottish independence would actually be a move towards the creation of yet another small European nation which as part of the EU would be completely at the mercy of the EU. A slave of Brussels. And if you want to see something that sucks the lifeblood out of individuality and freedom you need look no further. And the reason for this is that it was not created through generations of agreement, co-operation and struggle by people but was created by the bankers and financiers and politicians after WWII as a way to control the whole of Europe when war had failed to do the same. The EU is nothing more than a giant bureaucracy ... unaccountable and corporate ... so the Scots were right to stick with Britain out of the Eurozone ... its far from perfect but at least has some hope.

 

Anyway that's what I think.

[joeblast]

Why was the application for EU membership perceived as an absolute certainty if the vote went yes?

 

What I thought most funny was all the "OMG what will they DO without a central bank???"...oh jeez I dunno, maybe control their own destiny instead of being given a blank checkbook for the kids to worry about balancing?

[zerostao]

i dont see why scotland would have to join the eu?

if texas seceded from the us , i dont think it would join up with mexico.

i do understand that those of you bums that are in the uk or europe have paid closer attention to this vote than me.

i am a humble anarchist who only looks at politicians and elections as spectacles of amusement(in a very sordid way)

scotland is no iceland thats for sure

[Vmarco]

 

That's an incredibly negative view of history. These unions are not theory - that's the point - they are actually and functional. And they are based on enlightened self interest of the parties involved. Your way - we would ultimately devolve down to the smallest units, the tribe, the family or just a person all incapable of living in community with others - of facing the shared experience, compromise, wealth and stability that comes from community.

 

Anyway that's what I think. I like to be practical not romantic.

"Unions based on enlightened self interest." Yes,...I agree, it takes a certain level of enlightenment to form a union. Today's America could not do it,...no way,...because their are so few enlightened people in America,...and none that I'm aware of in politics. The majority of America's Founders either had a level enlightenment, or were open to it,...and surprisingly, they triumphed over the Christocratic Federalists. Fortunately, at that time, the Federalists were in the minority.

 

For those unaware, the Federals were against things like the Louisiana Purchase, etc.

 

If the evolving hate throughout the World is not smothered soon, I'd suspect various Unions will be divided into numerous City-states. America divided into at least 8 sub-countries. Instead of 257 Countries, there could be thousands (with hundreds acquiring nuc's) . Even Thailand is on the verge of breaking up,...the North, the Northeast, and the Bangkok elite of the South,...with the southern most Muslim providences looking for their own 4th.

[Vmarco]

i dont see why scotland would have to join the eu?

if texas seceded from the us , i dont think it would join up with mexico.

Can't imagine Texas seceding,...the Mexicans there would, within a generation, make Mexican the first language, and redneck Baptists a minority. And then yes,...it would become the 32nd State of Mexico.