What causes the "flatline" effect during abstinence

[HoldorFold]

It's widely known in the semen retention circle that when you abstain from pornography, masturbation, sex etc. for a period of time you feel great initially and then you enter a "flatline" where you feel depressed, unmotivated and generally terrible.

Personally, during periods of abstience I've felt amazing for about 40 days and then the flatline starts and then it's feeling lethargic, no libido, unmotivated etc. ongoing for a few weeks until I've broken the abstinence.

I've heard some accounts of people flatlining for months even over a year.

It's quite a mystery why this phenomenon happens, has anyone got any insight on why this occurs?

Also, could there be a way around it?

[3bob]

I don't know but would it cause a flat-belly, I could use one.

[GreytoWhite]

I could go on about true transmutation and blah blah blah but I seriously recommend just finding a loving woman.

[Taoist Texts]

 

 

I've heard some accounts of people flatlining for months even over a year.

 

It's quite a mystery why this phenomenon happens, has anyone got any insight on why this occurs?

 

 

Your basic instinct of procreation is a mechanism that rewards you with the feeling of pleasure when you obey its command to spill your sperm; on the other hand, when you try to resist this biological programming - it punishes you with the feeling of depression. Its an old biological carrot and stick, nothing more. Same with the feeling good when retaining initially, thats the carrot, because in these case you obey the command to accumulate a healthy sperm reserve for successful insemination.

[子泰]

maybe the physical celibacy is being done, but the mental celibacy is very important too, and tricky

[C T]

I'd imagine that such an occurrence is directly related to practitioners not fully understanding the purpose of the practice, one, and two, the perceived negative effects is not a direct result of abstinence, rather, they stem from having developed a lifestyle not conducive to initiating such a practice.

 

One needs to understand that abstinence is not a random indulgence. It requires planning, sufficient hind- and foresight, discipline, moral ethics, and most vital of all, to have already put in a place a certain lifestyle that gradually eases one into a mentally-prepared, abstinence-geared phase which, over time, will lengthen proportionate to what one has learnt to sacrifice in terms not only related to semen retention, but the weaning off of unhealthy distractions, thoughts, food consumption, and other mundane dependencies, while at the same time increasing such things as altruistic wishes and activities (lends purpose), developing proficiency in certain meditative absorptions (hones discipline), learning to find joy in solitude (counters boredom), and so on. You get the picture?

Edited September 22, 2014 by C T

[GrandmasterP]

It's widely known in the semen retention circle that when you abstain from pornography, masturbation, sex etc. for a period of time you feel great initially and then you enter a "flatline" where you feel depressed, unmotivated and generally terrible.

Personally, during periods of abstience I've felt amazing for about 40 days and then the flatline starts and then it's feeling lethargic, no libido, unmotivated etc. ongoing for a few weeks until I've broken the abstinence.

I've heard some accounts of people flatlining for months even over a year.

It's quite a mystery why this phenomenon happens, has anyone got any insight on why this occurs?

Also, could there be a way around it?

There's a 'semen retention circle'?

How does that work?

Is it like a sewing circle but with less handiwork involved?

Might there be a club house or social venue for get togethers?

Gotta know.

I'm thinking how newbies would introduce themselves to the regulars....

 

" Hi my name's Bob and I am not a wanker."

 

Edited September 22, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[bax44]

I think he's referring to the flatline talked about on yourbrainonporn.com. Basically people who are addicted to porn/masturbation undergo abstinence from both and their dooamine receptors, etc fall low before rebounding. Many accounts on there of guys going through this before rebounding and feeling much better. Idk if this is exactly what the op is referring to but that's the only place I've heard the term flatline before. As someone who's been through it yes it's very real but it does get better after a period of time and mental abstinence is a big part of it. It's like any addiction and there are plenty of studies etc to back up what the guy is saying there. I've no idea of there would be a flatline for someone who abstains without having been somewhat addicted to porn/masturbation although in today's world it'd be hard to find someone who isn't affected by it in some way. Hope that helps but I'd visit that site there's plenty of interesting info there.

[4bsolute]

"I imagine"

 

"I think"

 

"maybe"

 

"it could be.."

 

Why do you even open your mental box if you have no direct experience? Replying in such a way creates more confusion and does not solve the OP's issue.

 

Generally when such problems arise one has to ask oneself what was the cause for these dramatic changes in lifestyle and how was one previously living. Yes you can stop or force your thoughts to stop to operate on certain subjects but that does not work with our emotions. Feelings can not jump around corners, like thoughts can, emotions have a feedback. See it as waves. A wave does not abruptely end, the waves are getting smaller and smaller if you put your desire elsewhere.

 

And now ask yourself for how long you consumed porn and had sex and how fast you think you want to stop and if that all is possible at all.

 

Generally, everything is possible - because you can also operatein non-linear time - but that might require you to be already re-realized in your true nature as Tao/God consciousness to work from such a place. As with everything one can take babysteps or huge leaps. The question is: What can you take?

 

You clearly struggle with managing your emotions. So yes you can take leaps but you have an emotional feedback. If you have not yet learned how to effectively deal with emotions and non-associate with thoughts, especially seeing them falsely as personal, you will sooner or later make a step back. That in itself is a natural process.

 

But the more one realizes ones true nature as Tao, as God - coming from the core of one's Spiritual Heart (which rightfully re-enables "enlightenment" for it's light, illuminating the higher areas of the body/mind) - the sooner one realizes that truly Everything is possible, only the veil of thoughts must clear for us to have completely unlocked perception of what Life, which we are and in which we all are, is.

 

It is our work to re-enable all of this in us. Semen-retention in itself is not necessary, since everything happens naturally in your body, when you have your FOCUS/DESIRE on wanting to attain Tao/God. That is all that needs to be done. Consistantly, every day. All else happens naturally.

 

 

All the best.

Edited September 22, 2014 by 4bsolute

[bax44]

4bsolute I don't know I'd you were referring to my reply but I assume you were partly. In fact I do have direct experience with this and have been through the flatline and am referring to my experience with porn/masturbation abstinence because like I said that's the only circle in which I've heard the term before. So I was including my experience/and that info in case it could be useful to him. If he never had a problem w these addictions then I'm sure he's more than capable of seperate big regular abstinence from what I am describing and it really isn't that confusing at all IMO.

[HoldorFold]

I was really wondering if there's a known energetic reason for this. But I think user Taoist Texts might be onto something here.. the body seems to give up on producing energy and motivation to find a mate if it thinks there's no chance of copulating.

 

The symptoms of a flatline would seem to have a lot in common with jing depletion... paradoxically though since no jing has been expended through blowing wads. So perhaps semi-regular sexual activity actually stimulates the production of jing.

 

btw, bax44, I've read through articles on yourbrainonporn, it's a good site since it colates hundreds (or thousands) of people's experience with abstienence. I think you're right, I must have picked up the term "flatline" from there although it's now widely used elsewhere as well.

[bax44]

Well the thing is that once most guys are through the "flatline" they report things being much much better. So idk about the hypothesis of the body stopping to produce energy for copulatikn or whatever. As far as I can tell it's an adjustment phase which should ultimately result in a re calibration of sorts to a higher energy and better feelings, etc. there's thousands of reports of this same pattern; feel great initially, flatline of a certain period, then a great sense of well being for the most part.

[bax44]

Also the reports of "retention" of longer periods on threads I've read on thetaobums are mostly very positive and ultimately seem to be beneficial for those who are so inclined. So I'm thinking the flatline is just a painful part of the process in order to reach the other side as it were. I've noticed this in myself that once I get last 60-70 days there's just an underlying "sweetness" to things but up to that point things are very up and down with some downs being pretty bad. Of course i admit to have been a heavy porn user on my past and I certainly wasn't shy about whacking off. For me abstaining balances my mind out in combo w meditation etc i feel I'm closer to my potential as a human being and I notice I want to find "love" more with a women as opposed to just bending her over haha.. I'm also much less "needy" around women and have more swagger. I think it's just me feeling like a normal man after years of abusing myself through porn and excessive masturbation. For me there's a huge difference. But the flatline thing is definitely a bitch but at the same time to me it feels kind of healthy in a way idk why.

Edited September 22, 2014 by bax44

[mike 134]

low T

[HoldorFold]

Well the thing is that once most guys are through the "flatline" they report things being much much better. So idk about the hypothesis of the body stopping to produce energy for copulatikn or whatever. As far as I can tell it's an adjustment phase which should ultimately result in a re calibration of sorts to a higher energy and better feelings, etc. there's thousands of reports of this same pattern; feel great initially, flatline of a certain period, then a great sense of well being for the most part.

 

Hmm, yeah good point. People who get over the flatline feel a lot better for the most part. Although I read about one guy who flatlined for 2 years, so that's what made me wonder mainly.

 

I'll have to see for myself I suppose, I've flatlind in the past at about 2 months and never made it past that.

[HoldorFold]

low T

 

Symptoms would appear to suggest that although there's much research into it.

 

Did come accross this though... a quote on this artcile about athletes abstaining from sex for performance, where a professor is quoted as saying "After three months without sex, which is not so uncommon for some athletes, testosterone dramatically drops to levels close to children's levels"

 

Makes me wonder if the occasional bit of sex while retaining the semen would do the body good.

[C T]

 

Makes me wonder if the occasional bit of sex while retaining the semen would do the body good.

Depends on the individual's constitution and habitual tendencies.

 

On one-year closed retreats (Nyingma tradition), some participants were advised to release periodically; some were encouraged to observe total abstinence. Those who were advised to release were prescribed a different diet to those who abstained. And they were assigned different practices too. Even with precautions, the odd problems still surface... good thing the retreat master or his assistant is constantly available to assist.

 

Thats why i mentioned its not a practice where someone without proper induction can whimsically decide to undertake. Unfortunately, that seems to be a common trend among Westerners, to DIY such practices without proper guidance, instead, depending on other DIY enthusiasts, or worse, Youtube videos, for usually tainted or inadequate information.

[thelerner]

 

Did come accross this though... a quote on this artcile about athletes abstaining from sex for performance, where a professor is quoted as saying "After three months without sex, which is not so uncommon for some athletes, testosterone dramatically drops to levels close to children's levels"

 

Makes me wonder if the occasional bit of sex while retaining the semen would do the body good.

That fits into an ancient taoist text of the Yellow Emperor.

 

15/8 SNC as quoted in I-hsin-fang-

The Yellow Emperor asked the Plain Girl (goddess in disguise?) 'Now what if one decided to refrain entirely from sexual intercourse?"

She answered 'This is wrong, heaven and Earth have their opening and closing, Yin and Yang develop from each other. Man is modeled after Yin and Yang and embodies the sequence of the 4 seasons. If one should resolve to abstain from sexual intercourse , one's spirit will not develop since the interchange of Yin and Yang will come to a halt. how could one thus supplement one's vital essence?

Blending the vital essence during frequent exercise of the sexual act, substituting the new for the old, this is how one benefits oneself. I fthe Jade Stalk becomes inactive the man will die. But its activity should be controlled and guided.."

[HoldorFold]

I love that, thanks thelerner

[Songtsan]

Personally I feel that it is due to not 'giving into' the urge on occasion and letting it thrive, although you still don't cross the line and complete the desire. If you don't fan the flames of desire, then you lose that energy to work with. Trying not to think of sexual delights at all is not something I mess with anymore...it seemed to lead to depression, whereas enlivening my sexual expression and playing with it seems to give me boundless energy...what would you be if you were truly desireless? Maybe just a piece of dead meat - you need to keep some kind of wind in your sails. That's what alchemy is all about. I feel that my spiritual desires, as far as wanting enlightenment or to be a tool of God, are often fickle. My sexual desires are strong. In bhakti yoga, they specifically encourage the turning of the sexual energies towards the divine, which is why I love Tantra so. You don't have to want people on the physical plane. There are plenty of devas and dakinis/dakas, etc out there to turn your lust towards.

 

I also have thoughts based on evolutionary psychology which tend towards thinking that the body is being entropic, and that if it is tricked into believing that there are no chances for sexual outlet, then it wil shut down the urge to prevent excessive emotional outlay, thus putting one into a torporish hibernation state to conserve energy.

[bax44]

Also I think there is a difference between releasing from masrurbation as opposed to intercourse. Masturbation tends to be depleting whereas sex with a loving partner is energizing. Having said that, that article you referenced says nothing about wether the fighters drained themselves at all in 3 months via self pleasure which would invalidate the whole thing. Having T levels of a child is the result of much more sinister things than simply abstaining I think. That's rather drastic. If that was common no way you'd be reading of the success stories of all the guys who gave up porn/masturbation long term.

[bax44]

Yeah I found and read the rest of that article. Lol the "research" is totally flawed and pretty much nonsense. These mma fighters/boxers are constantly overtraining, pushing themselves beyond breaking points. There's about a million things that could result in lower T levels including cycling on and off testosterone injections, which these guys are notorious for. I'd take that article with about a beach worth in grains of salt haha.

[Songtsan]

I am taking a supplement called Tongkat Ali, AKA Longjack which I am finding interesting. I often have hyper-inflated testosterone based and dopamine linked mood states which make me feel like I can kick anyones ass or die trying - this is exactly the type of energy which I wish to preserve and cultivate as it is this mojo which brings forth fruition in terms of practice.

[Taoway]

I think he's referring to the flatline talked about on yourbrainonporn.com. Basically people who are addicted to porn/masturbation undergo abstinence from both and their dooamine receptors, etc fall low before rebounding. Many accounts on there of guys going through this before rebounding and feeling much better. Idk if this is exactly what the op is referring to but that's the only place I've heard the term flatline before. As someone who's been through it yes it's very real but it does get better after a period of time and mental abstinence is a big part of it. It's like any addiction and there are plenty of studies etc to back up what the guy is saying there. I've no idea of there would be a flatline for someone who abstains without having been somewhat addicted to porn/masturbation although in today's world it'd be hard to find someone who isn't affected by it in some way. Hope that helps but I'd visit that site there's plenty of interesting info there.

I can see why someone who is just trying to beat a porn and masturbation addiction would feel depleted from not having their drug of choice

But it's a lot different when you are abstinent for other means like cultivation and growth.

 

The purpose is very different from one to another.someone who is doing no fap hoping to be a chick magnet and get big muscles to someone on here who is actively meditating and cultivating . The difference will be clear.