How do the Hexagrams transform from 1-64/ Sequence Theory

[Uroboros]

I have been utilizing the I Ching for divinations and have had wonderful results. Its so much more then just a fortune teller, though. I am working to understand the lines themselves and the process of change/ transformation of yin and yang

 

The biggest difficulty I have is when I am attempting to grasp the process or mechanism as to how the lines of yin and yang transform and become the hexagrams.

 

In hexagram 1- Qian, its all Yang. Then Kun is all Yin. From here on out is where I get confused.

 

From 2 to 3, somehow a yin line at the first transforms to yang and a yin line at the 5 transforms to yang.

 

Why does it transform that way? What is the theory/ mechanism?

 

This bugs me. If anyone can help me grasp this, I would greatly appreciate it.

 

Thank you

[soaring crane]

The king wen arrangement is traditional and no one can really tell us exactly why it is the way it is. But the hexagrams are mostly arranged in pairs if you look at them. Turn 3 upside down and you get 4, etc...

 

1 and 2,and 27-30 are the exceptions and there are other structural patterns, but the reasoning behind it all is conjecture.

[Uroboros]

The king wen arrangement is traditional and no one can really tell us exactly why it is the way it is. But the hexagrams are mostly arranged in pairs if you look at them. Turn 3 upside down and you get 4, etc...

 

1 and 2,and 27-30 are the exceptions and there are other structural patterns, but the reasoning behind it all is conjecture.

 

Huh. I never noticed that they were mostly reversed in pairs like that. Thanks for pointing it out!

 

Thats what I want to know. The reasoning/ logic/ purpose behind the formation. Thats how my mind works, have to grasp the principles of a thing.

 

1 and 2 I get better then most. 1 is pure Yang and 2 is pure Yin, laying the foundation of existence, Heaven and Earth. After that point is where it gets iffy.

[Apech]

You could try reading the Zagua .... let me know if you make any sense of it

[soaring crane]

Huh. I never noticed that they were mostly reversed in pairs like that. Thanks for pointing it out!

 

Something else interesting: It's a history book, describing the fall of the Shang dynasty and the rise of the Zhou :-)

[joeblast]

Why does it transform that way? What is the theory/ mechanism?

Each sequence does its own thing...

 

http://www.russellcottrell.com/VirtualYarrowStalks/graphicIChing.htm

[Uroboros]

Each sequence does its own thing...

 

http://www.russellcottrell.com/VirtualYarrowStalks/graphicIChing.htm

 

The King Wen sequence is the one I am most interested in at the moment. Thank you for the link, the graphics do help.

 

That website also says that the principle/ pattern behind the King Wen sequence is not known/ easily known. Looking at the pattern that site shows for the King Wen sequence, it appears to have a purpose...its also chaotic.

 

What do you think the purpose of the King Wen sequence is, Joeblast?

[manitou]

I just finished a reread of The Tao of Physics by Fritjof Capra. He has a very complicated chapter wherein he equates the movements as seen within quantum physics to the I Ching. He tries to answer the same questions you have posed, I believe. Once you've become real familiar with the I Ching, it might be 'fun' to see how Capra makes the comparison to the nature of matter and probability. Of course, he's using quarks, neutrinos, and hadrons as an explanation, but the analogies are certainly there. Be prepared to have your mind blown, seeing as when an atom is exploded by collision, the particles not only explode into the present, but the future and past as well. Go figure - it's absolutely proof that All is Now, as I see it. Which explains how the I Ching taps into the synchronicity of the moment in a very scientific framework.

 

His book is a synthesis of quantum physics with the Eastern mystical mindset of Buddhism, Hinduism, and Taoism. Not one to be missed!

Edited September 25, 2014 by manitou

[Uroboros]

I just finished a reread of The Tao of Physics by Fritjof Capra. He has a very complicated chapter wherein he equates the movements as seen within quantum physics to the I Ching. He tries to answer the same questions you have posed, I believe. Once you've become real familiar with the I Ching, it might be 'fun' to see how Capra makes the comparison to the nature of matter and probability. Of course, he's using quarks, neutrinos, and hadrons as an explanation, but the analogies are certainly there. Be prepared to have your mind blown, seeing as when an atom is exploded by collision, the particles not only explode into the present, but the future and past as well. Go figure - it's absolutely proof that All is Now, as I see it. Which explains how the I Ching taps into the synchronicity of the moment in a very scientific framework.

 

His book is a synthesis of quantum physics with the Eastern mystical mindset of Buddhism, Hinduism, and Taoism. Not one to be missed!

 

I have looked at that book before. It sounds excellent! Thanks for sharing!

 

I will check it out when I get a better grasp of the principles. It sounds like it would be interesting and add to a deeper understanding.

[joeblast]

The King Wen sequence is the one I am most interested in at the moment. Thank you for the link, the graphics do help.

 

That website also says that the principle/ pattern behind the King Wen sequence is not known/ easily known. Looking at the pattern that site shows for the King Wen sequence, it appears to have a purpose...its also chaotic.

 

What do you think the purpose of the King Wen sequence is, Joeblast?

to me it appears to be a sort of 5e balance

[soaring crane]

What do you think the purpose of the King Wen sequence is, Joeblast?

 

I'm not Mr Blast but I suspect the general scholarly consensus is correct and it's mentioned in the intro to the page that the real Mr Blast linked to: "The lack of any obvious pattern to the King Wen sequence tempts me to think that the order may be influenced by the subject of the text, as described in the ninth wing, and is not purely mathematical."

 

That means, whoever created the sequence, whether it was a Duke sitting in prison for five years, or a collection bureaucrats, the historical record came first and the sequence of hexagrams was arranged to reflect the ups and downs (yin/yang, life/death) described in the progression of the story. You'd need a phD in Sinology to even begin to make an educated guess, and to this day, no Sinolologist has come up with a definitve answer.

 

But it doesn't really matter -- It just works :-)

[Uroboros]

I'm not Mr Blast but I suspect the general scholarly consensus is correct and it's mentioned in the intro to the page that the real Mr Blast linked to: "The lack of any obvious pattern to the King Wen sequence tempts me to think that the order may be influenced by the subject of the text, as described in the ninth wing, and is not purely mathematical."

 

That means, whoever created the sequence, whether it was a Duke sitting in prison for five years, or a collection bureaucrats, the historical record came first and the sequence of hexagrams was arranged to reflect the ups and downs (yin/yang, life/death) described in the progression of the story. You'd need a phD in Sinology to even begin to make an educated guess, and to this day, no Sinolologist has come up with a definitve answer.

 

But it doesn't really matter -- It just works :-)

 

You may not be Mr Blast, you ARE Soaring Crane and I definitely value your opinion. I didnt mean that question to be solely limited to Joeblast, even though I did write it that way.

 

Hmm....Thats a solid idea as to why it is the way it is. As you say, it would be difficult, if not impossible to truly know why it was put together that way from a cultural perspective unless you were there.

 

Thats the thing that bugs me, SC. The King Wen sequence works with such precision and vast depth that the principle of its organization and sequencing has to have some intelligence behind it.

 

Maybe the principle is in the 8 Gua's.

 

Joeblast- Why do you think it is a 5 Element sequence? I can see how the 5e would be used to create the whole wide world of experience that the I Ching can....

 

Thank you all for your contributions!

[soaring crane]

You may not be Mr Blast,

 

haha, you know I was joking around. And I really don't know anything beyond what I've written so far. As soon as it gets intellectual/mathematical, I step aside and smile :-)

[silent thunder]

I just finished a reread of The Tao of Physics by Fritjof Capra. He has a very complicated chapter wherein he equates the movements as seen within quantum physics to the I Ching. He tries to answer the same questions you have posed, I believe. Once you've become real familiar with the I Ching, it might be 'fun' to see how Capra makes the comparison to the nature of matter and probability. Of course, he's using quarks, neutrinos, and hadrons as an explanation, but the analogies are certainly there. Be prepared to have your mind blown, seeing as when an atom is exploded by collision, the particles not only explode into the present, but the future and past as well. Go figure - it's absolutely proof that All is Now, as I see it. Which explains how the I Ching taps into the synchronicity of the moment in a very scientific framework.

 

His book is a synthesis of quantum physics with the Eastern mystical mindset of Buddhism, Hinduism, and Taoism. Not one to be missed!

I agree.

 

The Tao of Physics initiated deep shift within me.

[Daeluin]

The biggest difficulty I have is when I am attempting to grasp the process or mechanism as to how the lines of yin and yang transform and become the hexagrams.

 

First, as soaring crane explained, this sequence operates in pairs. This can be seen as day unfolding into night, creating a sequence that follows day to day and night to night, exploring the mirrored transformations of predominant yang dynamics and predominant yin dynamics, even as the changes from these opposite perspectives both approach completion.

 

The Taoist I Ching always describes the sequential transformations from one hexagram to the next, providing great insight into the methodology behind these changes. While they don't appear to follow a simple pattern, I think the whole thing is a pattern.

 

Take Hexagram 26, ䷙, which transforms to Hexagram 28, ䷛.

 

This may not make mathematical sense, but it resonates with my experience profoundly. In 26 we have the pressure of mountain helping to nurture and preserve the energy of heaven. But this post-celestial sequence describes what happens naturally when all that nurtured energy wants to change and find integration with the outside world. As one stops utilizing the containing force of the mountain, all of that stored up energy will now want to pour forth, the bottom trigram of heaven turning to wind and stirring up that energy, and the top trigram turning to lake. When lake is calm, settling and transformation can take place - but here, the powerful heavenly wind below it wants to burst forth, and thus the lake becomes intensely happy and has ample fuel to apply in feeding this happiness in external gratifications. In my own cultivation work, I notice this is precisely what occurs after intense practice sessions, and much discipline is required to maintain frugality and simplicity.

 

I'm far from fully understanding this sequence, but in my efforts I see it as a post-celestial unfolding - a description of evolution towards greater complexity of integration between yang and yin, beginning with what is pure. The Cantong Qi recommends using this sequence to follow the lunar month of ~30 days and nights using 60 hexagrams (excluding heaven, earth, fire, water).... I still haven't reached the root of this, but exploration of this day to day unfolding has been quite profound.

Edited September 26, 2014 by Daeluin

[Apech]

First, as soaring crane explained, this sequence operates in pairs. This can be seen as day unfolding into night, creating a sequence that follows day to day and night to night, exploring the mirrored transformations of predominant yang dynamics and predominant yin dynamics, even as the changes from these opposite perspectives both approach completion.

 

The Taoist I Ching always describes the sequential transformations from one hexagram to the next, providing great insight into the methodology behind these changes. While they don't appear to follow a simple pattern, I think the whole thing is a pattern.

 

Take Hexagram 26, ䷙, which transforms to Hexagram 28, ䷛.

 

...snip ...

 

Sorry I'm not clear why you are saying 26 transforms to 28. 27 changes to 28 by converting yin to yang and visa versa.

 

....ah got it it's what Cleary calls the odd sequence.

Edited September 27, 2014 by Apech
read Cleary

[soaring crane]

Sorry I'm not clear why you are saying 26 transforms to 28. 27 changes to 28 by converting yin to yang and visa versa.

 

 

that's the ''rule" for 1>2; 27>28; 29>30; and 61>62, because they're symetrical (they're the same upside-down as rightside-up). Everything else follows the 180° rule.

[Apech]

The way I see the King Wen sequence (after a look at the Xugua) is this. The whole sequence is 'defined' by the first two hexs Heaven and Earth. All the myriad creatures come into being due to the interaction of these two. The sequence is ended by Already Crossed 63 and then Not Yet Crossed 64 because 63 is all the lines in the right places according to the numerology of odd = yang and even = yin. And so the complete sequence comes to resolution in 63 but then since Change is always occurring begins again in 64.

 

After Heaven and Earth we get 3. Difficulty at the beginning (Birth throws) and 4. Youthful Folly (Innocence) which is the first step of a 'creature' brought into being by the interaction of Heaven and Earth. Then follows sequential pairs which describe the process following this birth and state of innocence.

 

So in fact the King Wen order is not so much mathematical in its design but a meditation on existence and the experience of being alive and subject to change. I think this is why it is so powerful and became standard.

[Apech]

that's the ''rule" for 1>2; 27>28; 29>30; and 61>62, because they're symetrical (they're the same upside-down as rightside-up). Everything else follows the 180° rule.

 

Yes but Daelin was quoting a different sequence.

[soaring crane]

 

Yes but Daelin was quoting a different sequence.

Oic...

 

Re your previous post, the first hexagram speaks of the overthrow of the Shang by the Zhou, and the first half of the book. The second hexagram speaks of reign of the Zhou and the second half of the book. More or less. It's all about out with the old in with the new, and the dynamics therein.

[joeblast]

So in fact the King Wen order is not so much mathematical in its design but a meditation on existence and the experience of being alive and subject to change. I think this is why it is so powerful and became standard.

that's kinda how I was impressed "5e balance" of sorts from it. but my level of study with this stuff is next to nil. I just saw the hexagrams and knew their function, they plugged right in to practice, like when I was a child and picked up a stone on the beach in lake champlain and said "ooh, a fossil of a trilobyte"

[Daeluin]

Sorry I'm not clear why you are saying 26 transforms to 28. 27 changes to 28 by converting yin to yang and visa versa.

 

....ah got it it's what Cleary calls the odd sequence.

 

The whole sequence is 'defined' by the first two hexs Heaven and Earth. All the myriad creatures come into being due to the interaction of these two. The sequence is ended by Already Crossed 63 and then Not Yet Crossed 64 because 63 is all the lines in the right places according to the numerology of odd = yang and even = yin. And so the complete sequence comes to resolution in 63 but then since Change is always occurring begins again in 64.

 

Yes but Daelin was quoting a different sequence.

 

Same sequence. The Heaven and Earth absolutes of yang and yin at the beginning, which slowly integrate and end up in even distribution. The unfolding sequence describes a sequence of pairs - pairs operating in reverse of each other, each beginning from an opposing extreme - all yang or all yin.

 

Beginning with Heaven ䷀ (1) and Earth ䷁ (2). Clear polarities.

 

Then we have difficulty, ䷂, (3). This hexagram represents starting the advancement of yang ; it follows on the hexagram heaven. Heaven is the quality of strength; advancement of yang is advancement of that strength. It is precisely because of not being strong that one promotes strength.

 

When reversed, difficulty, ䷂, become darkness, ䷃, (4). This hexagram represents starting the operation of yin convergence. The hexagram follows on the previous hexagram earth. Earth means going on the path of submission and receptivity; carrying out yin and convergence means returning recalcitrant yin to submission.

 

Then we have (5), waiting, ䷄. This hexagram represents nurturing strength, awaiting the proper time; it follows on the previous hexagram difficulty. Difficulty is movement and action in danger, restoring the primordial while in the midst of the temporal. Therefore one travels the path of strength and firmness and takes the true yang fallen in water ☵ out. However, when the yang has been trapped in water for a long time, it is not possible to get out of danger immediately; one must lead it on gradually, waiting for the proper time to gather it. One cannot presume upon one's strength and set about the task impetuously - that would bring on danger.

 

And when reversed, waiting, ䷄, becomes contention, ䷅, (6). This hexagram represents the downfall of truth and the contest for victory; it follows on the previous hexagram darkness. In darkness there is danger, yet one is able to stop. whereby to effect progress of the yin of the acquired temperament. People receive the energy of the temporally conditioned yin and yang and five elements, which forms their body; those who have received excessive yin energy are wily, while those who have received excessive yang energy are impetuous. Those whose yin and yang energies are mixed up are both wily and impetuous.

 

And so on, following from the polar extremes of yang advancement and yin convergence until they meet in the middle at the end - the two sides of the great river.

[manitou]

My god, Daeluin - that is The Tao of Physics, the cosmic Dance of Shiva that you have so adequately communicated. I don't know squat about the I Ching, but the analogies that Capra makes with the negative and positive polarities of yang and yin respectively sets up an intuitive understanding within me of what you're talking about.

[Daeluin]

Well... don't give me any credit - this is why I like the Taoist I Ching - Liu I-ming describes in simple terms what is very subtle and hidden. All the green is from that text.

 

The sequence shows how we can rebuild the primordial from two directions at once. Even as we build up the primordial from the inside, the outside will ever be wearing away at it, and thus two dynamics are ever in operation. This is the firing process - each hexagram applies to a specific time or phase within change - when one is able to identify these phases, the hexagrams describe how to return to balance. The four timeless hexagrams (䷀, ䷁, ䷜, ䷝) stand on their own, inherent and necessary at all times.

[Apech]

Same sequence. The Heaven and Earth absolutes of yang and yin at the beginning, which slowly integrate and end up in even distribution. The unfolding sequence describes a sequence of pairs - pairs operating in reverse of each other, each beginning from an opposing extreme - all yang or all yin.

 

Beginning with Heaven ䷀ (1) and Earth ䷁ (2). Clear polarities.

 

Then we have difficulty, ䷂, (3). This hexagram represents starting the advancement of yang ; it follows on the hexagram heaven. Heaven is the quality of strength; advancement of yang is advancement of that strength. It is precisely because of not being strong that one promotes strength.

 

When reversed, difficulty, ䷂, become darkness, ䷃, (4). This hexagram represents starting the operation of yin convergence. The hexagram follows on the previous hexagram earth. Earth means going on the path of submission and receptivity; carrying out yin and convergence means returning recalcitrant yin to submission.

 

Then we have (5), waiting, ䷄. This hexagram represents nurturing strength, awaiting the proper time; it follows on the previous hexagram difficulty. Difficulty is movement and action in danger, restoring the primordial while in the midst of the temporal. Therefore one travels the path of strength and firmness and takes the true yang fallen in water ☵ out. However, when the yang has been trapped in water for a long time, it is not possible to get out of danger immediately; one must lead it on gradually, waiting for the proper time to gather it. One cannot presume upon one's strength and set about the task impetuously - that would bring on danger.

 

And when reversed, waiting, ䷄, becomes contention, ䷅, (6). This hexagram represents the downfall of truth and the contest for victory; it follows on the previous hexagram darkness. In darkness there is danger, yet one is able to stop. whereby to effect progress of the yin of the acquired temperament. People receive the energy of the temporally conditioned yin and yang and five elements, which forms their body; those who have received excessive yin energy are wily, while those who have received excessive yang energy are impetuous. Those whose yin and yang energies are mixed up are both wily and impetuous.

 

And so on, following from the polar extremes of yang advancement and yin convergence until they meet in the middle at the end - the two sides of the great river.

 

 

I agree with that but you said 26 transforms to 28 ... did you mean 27? or other wise can you explain.