a whole bunch o' newbie questions

[beancurdturtle]

I don't have you pegged either, you know. You're too colorful for that!

You want to "peg" me honey?

 

Simple - read the Tao te Ching.

 

Love you,

[三江源]

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Edited March 23, 2015 by 三江源

[rain]

TaoMeow, always make sense.

 

 

sigh

Edited September 17, 2007 by rain

[Taomeow]

um... del for now

Edited September 17, 2007 by Taomeow

[Taomeow]

TaoMeow, I'm sure you always make sense!

 

When I used that phrase "it makes sense to me", what I meant was that I felt the experience you described about the snake.

 

So, it was a different experience than "I understand" or "I agree". It was a reecognition, so it felt.

 

I have googled "Shuairan" and I cant find nuthin'.

 

Do you have some more you could tell about it?

 

I dont hold onto information very well if I dont recognise it all the way through myself. My head dont work well on it's own.

 

I'm much like that too, Cat, would you believe I secretly bend my fingers when I count?

 

It's not on google, it's part of the indigenous tradition from Eastern Siberia, Altai and Manchuria, and it picked up some taoist and buddhist influences (and terms) over the centuries. The people who used it were there before taoism and fed into it, then perhaps vice versa; later some of them were converted first to buddhism, then (by force) to christianity, then to communism -- now back to buddhism, far as I know -- but not all of them. Some remained what they have always been -- a shamanic culture dating back a staggering 80,000 years, maybe more. In more recent times, most shamans of this tradition were killed, about three hundred years ago, in a disastrous "council" where all the elders of all the tribes were invited to negotiate and settle their "differences" with the dominant baboon (Russian Orthodox church), locked in a wooden house where they gathered, and set on fire. The legend has it that when the house burned down to the ground, nine of the shamans emerged from the flames and walked away, not to be seen ever again. When things that happened in that part of the world are discussed by people whose ancestors have always lived there, it is done with great mistrust and reluctance, and a lot of the knowledge is hidden for a damn good reason. I chanced upon a little (I come from Altai), and the only reason I was taught anything was... dunno, just lucky.

 

The closest thing to the practice that I know of that can be googled is perhaps the classic Viprassana, which a practitioner starts out with at least ten days of sensory deprivation -- no human contact, no distractions of any kind. In Shuairan, a practitioner (a shaman, or rather "kam," which is the local word) does it for you instantly, turns off all your habitual distractions (of yourself from yourself) and then works with you by facilitating your ability to perceive "what is, as is" while blocking your ability to reason and rationalize. It can get very scary. However, once your rational mind returns (and it does), it is your very own now, it emerges from your own inner truth instead of being superimposed by external conditioning. It becomes very easy to tell which parts of you are the "real snake," the connected you, and which parts were "inserted," constructed by society, parents or other "caretakers," teachers, doctors, priests, cops, whoever. It can be terrifying to find out in the process that not much of whatever you thought of as you is really you, that all your proprietary inner space is "developed" by some spiritual, emotional, even physical "real estate" that simply encroached on your proprietary territory and set up its own business where "you" should have grown instead. So you wind up tearing down a lot of those "developments," then cleaning up the mess... It can take a while, or a long time, but once you know how, you can keep the process going.

 

It's not a good "do-it-yourself" practice initially though, because there's methods used that require a knowledgeable facilitator and a safe space.

[三江源]

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Edited March 23, 2015 by 三江源

[Mal]

Two Words:

放下

 

Not only is "Put Down" profound and clever it's also scripture quote!

 

"Put down all entangling conditions, let not one thought arise"

 

I'm always impressed when people do things like this, I never manage it.

 

 

Going outside to stare at the sky and feel small and useless....

[watercourseway]

interesting twists and turns here. hahaha i keep seeing references to teachers. is a teacher necessary in all forms of daoism?

[林愛偉]

Not only is "Put Down" profound and clever it's also scripture quote!

 

"Put down all entangling conditions, let not one thought arise"

 

I'm always impressed when people do things like this, I never manage it.

Going outside to stare at the sky and feel small and useless....

 

 

Its not the outcome that is important in the cultivation of letting go, it is the actual practice

of letting go, putting down that is important. That is what cultivation is about...the inbetween, not the end result.

THe end result is inevitable, so one doesn't have to hold on to getting there, just cultivating that which results in realizing.

 

Peace,

Lin

 

interesting twists and turns here. hahaha i keep seeing references to teachers. is a teacher necessary in all forms of daoism?

 

 

 

Yes, but a teacher only lays out the methods, and guides along the way. The real teacher is the cultivator

who puts diligence into practice.

 

No, because one may have good affinities/fate with certain mannerisms of mind, and be able to attain things

without the aid of a formal teacher...only someone to point to the direction, or method briefly.

 

It is both yes and no given one's affinities, conditions.

 

Peace,

Lin

[beancurdturtle]

Going outside to stare at the sky and feel small and useless....

Don't feel, be. It's quite enlightening.

[beancurdturtle]

It becomes very easy to tell which parts of you are the "real snake," the connected you, and which parts were "inserted," constructed by society, parents or other "caretakers," teachers, doctors, priests, cops, whoever.

Isn't this "discernment of self vs. filter framework" the goal of the practices and ways of cultivation most people here are pursuing?

[Taomeow]

 

I sit here writing this feeling like a collection of " implants."

 

LOL, I've never used this word, but it fits perfectly!

 

There's a taoist metaphor describing a transformation -- the mountains are no longer mountains, and then the mountains are again just mountains, anyone remember this poem? This happened to me twice, the Western way and the Eastern way, each disassembling "the mountains" more thoroughly than the previous one --

but then I had to put them back together, and once again the mountains are just mountains. So, the first time it happened, one of the mountains that disappeared was this idea that I have to be a writer. Everything I was "supposed" or "expected" to be turned out to have been implants, particularly ironic because I "always" thought those things were "my very own ideas," something I "wanted" myself. Turned out what I really wanted (or, rather, was forced to want) was to prove to mom and dad (and, by extension, the world as a stand-off for mom and dad) that I have a right to exist... and the terms on which it was to be proved were implanted so early that I didn't know it wasn't part of the real me. Well, the real me found out she has nothing to prove to anybody by any method, she has a right to exist because she exists. End of ambition, end of creativity! But then after a while the mountains are again just mountains (but my very own landscape this time, not an induced hallucination), and writing a book is just writing a book... though without a "should" it's not as strong a drive... but it's not a bad way to make a living if one gets lucky, so maybe I still "should" !

[Taomeow]

Isn't this "discernment of self vs. filter framework" the goal of the practices and ways of cultivation most people here are pursuing?

I've no idea what the goal of the practice of "most people here" is.

 

The way "some" go about it, however, is by starting out with the idea in the head of what a "self" is and isn't. Far as I'm concerned, this merely installs a particular new type of filter in the head, is all it does.

 

In the process I describe, "the real self" is not an issue at stake, just a by-product of systemic normalization. It's like... your eyes start hurting and you feel something pressing on them, and realize it was always like that but this is the first time you feel it... and once you feel it for what it really is -- simply pain -- you simply cry, and suddenly the world bursts out in colors and shapes you've never seen before -- and a pair of color-filtering, distorting lenses fall out of your eyes and you realize they were growing on your eyeballs, blocking the tears, blocking the pain, blocking the light -- and you didn't know they were there -- and now you remember who, when, how put them there -- remember precisely, not as an idea in your head but as a memory of what happened to you--

 

so you throw them in the dumpster, and keep seeing the real colors and shapes from then on, and can cry when you're sad rather than quote some scriptures to explain that sadness is a phenomenon of samsara, and that there's nobody there to feel the pain to begin with, and so on. So anyone comes to you and talks about self this and self that in a language of beliefs, reality this and reality that, and you see that pair of color-filtering (or self-filtering) lenses growing on his eyeballs, you just know what's going on... but you won't be believed, not for a second, until the wearer of this particular filter finds it himself. And when he does, he'll forget all about you, because the "you" he saw before he took them off was not real (he couldn't see anything real, including you), and is therefore an irrelevance. And what he will notice now that he's seeing a different world... who knows?..

[三江源]

.

Edited March 23, 2015 by 三江源

[Mal]

Don't feel, be. It's quite enlightening.

 

But "I" love to feel, see my .sig

[witch]

I can give some useful advice in return for the useful advice I have received. Writing books is not a good way to make a living. If you are lucky you will get an advance to write the book, but if you do or not, even a very successful book will only pay a year's wages.

 

The only use in writing a book is to avail oneself of the publicity machine of the publishing house to get the message out to the broadest audience possible. They are connected and can get you wider exposure than you could on your own. So don't write a book unless the book is telling you to write it--you will not be rewarded with money, only with seeing your idea propagate (if you are very, very lucky).

 

Now I will ask for further advice. I have finished my life's work, to the best of my ability, and now it must grow on its own. I am feeling quite empty, like I have just given birth except with no baby to show. I feel lost and wandering and unsettled without this thing I have had my whole life. First it was a certainty that I had a thing to do, for most of my life, since I was a child. Then there was the drawing to the thing that gripped me. Then the flowering and understanding what it was I was supposed to do. Now I have done it, finished just this last week, and I am utterly spent.

[三江源]

.

Edited March 23, 2015 by 三江源

[VeeCee]

Every ending is a new beginning. If you like to read, check out Transitions by William Bridges. It's very helpful for times like these.

[witch]

I'm having trouble functioning, because I am so used to having this strong force in my life--whether I was working on it or ignoring it to attend to other things, it was always present, like the sun in the sky. I don't think it was a bad thing that I was driven the way I was, quite the opposite, and I don't think it interfered with enlightenment--if anything it pushed me to see more than I normally would. It just was, basically. Pluto was transiting my yod and triggered this and I lived through it.

[Ian]

Now I will ask for further advice. I have finished my life's work, to the best of my ability, and now it must grow on its own. I am feeling quite empty, like I have just given birth except with no baby to show. I feel lost and wandering and unsettled without this thing I have had my whole life. First it was a certainty that I had a thing to do, for most of my life, since I was a child. Then there was the drawing to the thing that gripped me. Then the flowering and understanding what it was I was supposed to do. Now I have done it, finished just this last week, and I am utterly spent.

 

Well, it's autumn. Gather energy (and nuts). Prune away the unnecessary. Prepare to go deep. That sorta stuff.

Maybe.

[witch]

But that's the thing, I've done all that. I'm all done going deep, I have all my deep things, now I have to live my shallow task-filled life with duties and responsibilities, and I must take care of my health now and come back to full strength, I spent myself. And I've spent so much time pruning away the unnecessary to focus only on the necessary, to the point that my home is a wreck and my taxes unpaid, and now the necessary is done. It's taking me time to adjust back to normal life.

[Taomeow]

But that's the thing, I've done all that. I'm all done going deep, I have all my deep things, now I have to live my shallow task-filled life with duties and responsibilities, and I must take care of my health now and come back to full strength, I spent myself. And I've spent so much time pruning away the unnecessary to focus only on the necessary, to the point that my home is a wreck and my taxes unpaid, and now the necessary is done. It's taking me time to adjust back to normal life.

 

From a feng shui perspective. Clean your house, pay your taxes. Approach it as a spiritual task. It is SUPPOSED to be difficult when you're spent and exhausted and unwell --

many spiritual tasks worth bothering with are difficult. Do it anyway and as it gets done, you are likely to start feeling better.

 

Fix what needs fixing. As a witch you probably know the "as above so below" maxim -- "as outside so inside" applies as well. Electrical things that don't work drain your energy -- discard, replace, or fix. Clogged plumbing hurts your digestion. Even a cup with a crack or a chip injures your spirit -- throw all damaged things away. Old clothes and shoes you no longer wear accumulate old, tired qi that makes your own qi feel sluggish and spent. If you don't know what's where in your house, you don't know what's what in your mind. Do it one room at a time, don't overwhelm yourself. Once it's done in one place, perform a ritual -- smudge, chant, clear the space energetically using whatever methods you use. (I like a gourd rattle with dry beans -- to expel unwanted energies -- then one with little quartz crystals to energize the space.) This kind of work is not glamorous anymore than bathroom regularity, but without either one nothing can bring lasting joy. Have you ever seen on "Cops" how they would enter a troubled home with something violent or crazy or just plain stupid going on? Invariably such a house is a mess -- garbage everywhere, nobody gives a shit. As outside so inside...

[rain]

...............

Edited April 17, 2008 by rain

[witch]

My path is CERTAINLY not to desire nothing! I desire a clean house, for me and my children. I desire my taxes paid and my life in order.

 

From a feng shui perspective. Clean your house, pay your taxes. Approach it as a spiritual task. It is SUPPOSED to be difficult when you're spent and exhausted and unwell --

many spiritual tasks worth bothering with are difficult. Do it anyway and as it gets done, you are likely to start feeling better.

 

Fix what needs fixing. As a witch you probably know the "as above so below" maxim -- "as outside so inside" applies as well. Electrical things that don't work drain your energy -- discard, replace, or fix. Clogged plumbing hurts your digestion. Even a cup with a crack or a chip injures your spirit -- throw all damaged things away. Old clothes and shoes you no longer wear accumulate old, tired qi that makes your own qi feel sluggish and spent. If you don't know what's where in your house, you don't know what's what in your mind. Do it one room at a time, don't overwhelm yourself. Once it's done in one place, perform a ritual -- smudge, chant, clear the space energetically using whatever methods you use. (I like a gourd rattle with dry beans -- to expel unwanted energies -- then one with little quartz crystals to energize the space.) This kind of work is not glamorous anymore than bathroom regularity, but without either one nothing can bring lasting joy. Have you ever seen on "Cops" how they would enter a troubled home with something violent or crazy or just plain stupid going on? Invariably such a house is a mess -- garbage everywhere, nobody gives a shit. As outside so inside...

 

Thank you Mistress Taomeow, that is exactly what I needed to hear. It is time I attended to daily life, I can rest now.

[rain]

..............

Edited April 17, 2008 by rain