Spirituality and the Marketplace

[GrandmasterP]

This struck me having read another thread.

Many of the links and clips we see here on TTB have adverts for books and links to 'tickets for sale' seminars and such.

Does anyone know of somebody who does NOT have an online shop or merchandise to sell via a Spirituality Themed website, blog or suchlike?

This is not to criticise anyone for getting a living from whatever it is they promote online of a spiritual nature.

My interest lies in discovering if there is anyone out there 'doing it for free'.

Edited September 26, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Flolfolil]

...

Edited March 5, 2015 by Flolfolil

[lifeforce]

The ancient masters taught freely asking nothing in return. The internet is chock full of their words of wisdom.

Expensive books, videos, retreats and seminars are not needed.

Selective free literature, self inquiry and contemplation can cause the mind to 'turn'.

[Jetsun]

Mother Meera does everything for free and it is difficult to even give donations, although some of her devotees have set up a small shop and a few people have written books about her that they sell.

 

With Amma also everything is completely free, but she does generate a huge amount of money through donations to her charitable causes so there is an element of subtle pressure to donate , yet most do it very willingly.

 

Edit: I guess neither of which qualify as they both have shops, but it depends on how you look at it

Edited September 26, 2014 by Jetsun

[C T]

 

My interest lies in discovering if there is anyone out there 'doing it for free'.

I assume most if not all online materials from the Theravadin schools are given out freely, and most external links

pertain to the subject matter only and lead not to ads or pitches. Books can be got freely too, i recall.

[Daeluin]

The very nature of spirituality is of a dynamic without separation between self and other, and thus without notions of privacy or ownership.

 

However, life we as live it includes the spiritual and the earthly realms. Earth already operates under the rules of Heaven, simply with an added dimension of internal/external - self/other. Water flows freely following spiritual principle, merging with all it passes, and too follows earthly principle, adhering to the gravity of our planet. Yet many chose to bottle it up and sell it, and indeed even as it is ever present and available we have turned it into something to be earned rather than simply had freely.

 

The justifications that may be applied to setting a price upon water may easily be extended to spirituality. The earth beneath our feet is owned by no one, and those who would insist otherwise are trapped by the dynamic of self and other. What is free is always free, and yet the merging of boundaries upon the boundless ever serves the principle of post-celestial operation - evolution. Spirituality is no exception - even as it remains ever boundless in extremity, we still shall see its increasing integration into the bounded as post-celestial evolution continues on and on. The reverse is also true - the more we integrate the boundless, the less absolute the boundaries.

[soaring crane]

fluffybunny

[GrandmasterP]

Boundless fluffybunny.

 

[9th]

I personally consider commodification of these practices and traditions to be a heinous tragedy, but I still feel that everyone should do as they wish. If someone wants to make a business out of the teachings, go ahead - if someone wants to try to buy enlightenment and wisdom, go ahead. No need for explanations, excuses, etc - Ive heard them all plenty of times.

 

Its complicated because in our times we dont support masters and teachers with donations or charitable contributions as in the past. And for the student nowadays it seems that money should represent (or replace) commitment, dedication, and valuation. So, its a grey issue - but I remain idealistic and traditional about it. "the love of money is the root of all evil" and aint it the truth. Getting money involved is heading in the wrong direction entirely - perhaps plenty feel its "normal", its "common sense" and they have it "under control"... but I take a different approach.

 

How much cash were you born with?

 

[Spotless]

If you have students they will want to buy videos.

 

If you have a school they will want to buy cushions and clothing.

 

If you put on workshops you will need space and equipment in some cases.

 

Saying "the ancients did not charge" is somewhat misleading:

Students were expected to bring offerings of food, those being healed were expected to bring chickens and other offerings as they could afford.

 

Today's teachers do not want chickens, they do not often want sliced baloney or white bread, many would want only organic, many don't want at all - this strange outlook on all things money is just odd.

 

If you are a successful teacher your students will want and utilize the resources you offer, and often the many resources your students offer. Sending abhorrent thoughts toward someone for charging for something is a judgement call you may not wish to participate in - some teachers have a real problem with asking for money and often as they grow older they are in very uncomfortable circumstances.

 

A great many of the teachers out there who do not ask for money are either very broke or they inherited their money or they are with a group in group housing. I know of several Great teachers who never touch money, never ask for money, and we have to watch out for them because they live very poorly on next to nothing. They do not know how to promote themselves and they do not want to attract poor quality students. We hand them money and look into their finances and help bring them students and those seeking healing work. We look after their housing.

 

Their is nothing wrong with charging for services rendered or selling items and videos and books that the student wants and that cost money to produce and put on a shelf.

Edited October 3, 2014 by Spotless

[BaguaKicksAss]

I charge a sliding scale. Or free for those who do trade and help with chores. I love teaching for free; help with chores is much more useful than money sometimes!

 

Lately I'm really loving the low cost pay what you can, and the regular rates still being low teachings. Previously I really enjoyed the pay lots per hour for private lessons teachings. I also enjoy free teachings. They are all good, in different ways for different things, and all worth every dime, or time spent etc.

 

The thing is though, if you don't think paying/charging for teachings is right, then don't pay for them. If you think it is OK, then pay for them. But telling others how they should do things, is just trying to control the rest of the world. Silly stuff imo.

[BaguaKicksAss]

If you have students they will want to buy videos.

 

If you have a school they will want to buy cushions and clothing.

 

If you put on workshops you will need space and equipment in some cases.

 

Saying "the ancients did not charge" is somewhat misleading:

Students were expected to bring offerings of food, those being healed were expected to bring chickens and other offerings as they could afford.

 

Today's teachers do not want chickens, they do not often want sliced baloney or white bread, many would want only organic, many don't want at all - this strange outlook on all things money is just odd.

 

If you are a successful teacher your students will want and utilize the resources you offer, and often the many resources your students offer. Sending abhorrent thoughts toward someone for charging for something is a judgement call you may not wish to participate in - some teachers have a real problem with asking for money and often as they grow older they are in very uncomfortable circumstances.

 

A great many of the teachers out there who do not ask for money are either very broke or they inherited their money or they are with a group in group housing. I know of several Great teachers who never touch money, never ask for money, and we have to watch out for them because they live very poorly on next to nothing. They do not know how to promote themselves and they do not want to attract poor quality students. We hand them money and look into their finances and help bring them students and those seeking healing work. We look after their housing.

 

Their is nothing wrong with charging for services rendered or selling items and videos and books that the student wants and that cost money to produce and put on a shelf.

 

Also charging people for magical help was done ever since ancient egypt .

[BaguaKicksAss]

My dentist should give me free services, and my lawyer, and my Dr. and my spiritual teacher!

 

I wonder if most folks felt spiritual teachers were on par with their dentist for real world expertise if they would view things differently? Course spiritual training takes many more years than even a medical doctor trains...

[z00se]

There are lots of people doing it for free.

 

There are many more who don't want to learn from somebody doing it for free.

 

People only place value on something that was difficult or costly to come by.

 

However the best things in life remain free

[C T]

A teacher in Hollywood, for example, who gives free teachings will probably be labelled a loser.

 

One in India, as another example, who has a 'pay for darshans' policy firmly in place will be shunned by the locals and also, in some way, be called a loser.

 

Funny thing is, the most 'successful' guru in the Asiatic region probably has more material riches than his or her western counterpart. (Remember the controversial Indian 'saint', Sai Baba? There are many like him, some authentic, some shady). I know of a few who have loyal students worldwide perpetually donating substantial chunks of their income towards 'the cause'. No teacher this side of the world will be able to emulate them (ever wonder why this is?), despite claims of being afforded greater technical and intellectual leverage. Outwardly, the Eastern gurus don't seem at all perturbed by all the material contributions, contented with a simple, uncluttered existence, and most actually re-channel the gifts and monetary gains towards nobler endeavours, while its quite a rarity to hear of a western guru who is actually as altruistic. Not saying there aren't any, just that in comparison, far fewer to be found here.

Edited October 3, 2014 by C T

[3bob]

The 10% rule is used a lot for the amount of money...

[BaguaKicksAss]

I have always found amount of money charged to be completely irrelevant to the quality of teachings given, and I have paid many varying amounts over the years, including free.

[Sunbeam]

We live in a world where one needs money to survive. I don't think there is anything wrong with charging fees in exchange for services. Sometimes people get really in love with money and what they offer is hollow in comparison to the price they're asking. It's a matter of discernment to find true teachers. And then, beyond that, I feel it is a matter of respect to the teacher to offer monetary support, as this supports their lives and ability to continue practicing and growing in relative peace.

[BaguaKicksAss]

I have found unfortunately that one must be very careful about teachers who don't charge. Often they are in it for ego reasons instead of money reasons. This is from personal experiences over the years, and also what others have shared with me. Obviously this is not the case all the time, but unfortunately does happen a lot .

[z00se]

Tai Chi teacher i learnt from in china gave me first 3 months for free, and if i didn't miss a single class for 3 months then he would begin to teach me the fighting aspects, otherwise i would be wasting his time. He charged me double the others, but only because i earnt 10x as much. The price was very low, but we would buy him presents, and every time i went away overseas or travelling somewhere i would bring him back something, often a speciality pack of cigarettes for him to try. He was retired, it was a hobby for extra money. He didn't care about the money, he wanted to see progress in his students, that was his payment.

 

TCM doctor who taught me pulse diagnosis did it for free, just because i was interested. I bought him a bottle of Jim Beam, a western spirit to say thankyou when i left.

 

Both were kind and openly sharing of their knowledge. It was never a pay more to get to the next stage, or holding things back until i was supposedly ready. Just ask and give, very patient, kind and giving.

 

Infact, thinking about it, in my experience those most knowledgable and accomplished people do like poisons