Love....Dating.....Marriage....Why?

[stefos]

Hi everyone,

 

I'd like to share a recent experience about "love" that I had today actually:

 

First, the background:

I joined an online dating site to supplement my dating potential with others some time ago.

 

I started talking to a nice lady around my age about things in general and developing communication with her.

 

I gave this lady a youtube post stemming from the dialogues of Krishnamurti & Dr. Alan Anderson about Love & Pleasure:

 

I subsequently told here that THIS is where I'm coming from, per se.

I also mentioned my spiritual affiliations insofar as Christianity, Dzogchen & esotericism are concerned.

I didn't quote any biblical text nor did I quote any Dzogchen text to her whatsoever at first.

 

Today I get an email back from this lady about "us not being compatible" & "Good luck finding love" LOL.........She was not being mean at all.

 

The whole point of me posting this is to say that people's concept of love is just that: A concept.

Sexual attraction, dating, co-habitation or marriage is the way the so called "love" cycle goes essentially.

 

My message to her was that love = God & God = love.

Furthermore, In the bible, it says that "Love seeks not it's own" which means that love is selfless. Now if God is love it follows that THAT love is selfless...i.e. No "me" nor ego.

 

In Dzogchen, we see that the "self" never was real....The only real thing is the nature of the mind. Again, Selflessness & pure being.

 

So, for all of you who care about being in a relationship leading to marriage or not, ask yourself these questions honestly:

Why am I seeking to date a person?

Am I seeking fulfillment IN another human being?

What does marriage actually mean?

Why should I get married?

 

I hope my experience has caused you to laugh & to think!

 

I send my love to all of you

Stefos

Edited September 29, 2014 by stefos

[ralis]

Hi everyone,

 

I'd like to share a recent experience about "love" that I had today actually:

 

First, the background:

I joined an online dating site to supplement my dating potential with others some time ago.

 

I started talking to a nice lady around my age about things in general and developing communication with her.

 

I gave this lady a youtube post stemming from the dialogues of Krishnamurti & Dr. Alan Anderson about Love & Pleasure:

 

I subsequently told here that THIS is where I'm coming from, per se.

I also mentioned my spiritual affiliations insofar as Christianity, Dzogchen & esotericism are concerned.

I didn't quote any biblical text nor did I quote any Dzogchen text to her whatsoever at first.

 

Today I get an email back from this lady about "us not being compatible" & "Good luck finding love" LOL.........She was not being mean at all.

 

The whole point of me posting this is to say that people's concept of love is just that: A concept.

Sexual attraction, dating, co-habitation or marriage is the way the so called "love" cycle goes essentially.

 

My message to her was that love = God & God = love.

Furthermore, In the bible, it says that "Love seeks not it's own" which means that love is selfless. Now if God is love it follows that THAT love is selfless...i.e. No "me" nor ego.

 

In Dzogchen, we see that the "self" never was real....The only real thing is the nature of the mind. Again, Selflessness & pure being.

 

So, for all of you who care about being in a relationship leading to marriage or not, ask yourself these questions honestly:

Why am I seeking to date a person?

Am I seeking fulfillment IN another human being?

What does marriage actually mean?

Why should I get married?

 

I hope my experience has caused you to laugh & to think!

 

I send my love to all of you

Stefos

 

Sounds as if you were preaching to her.

[i am]

Yeah...I mean normal people aren't going to get into that sort of thing before the first date. Not even on the first date. But then we aren't exactly normal around here...

 

If you truly believe what you're preaching, and are ok with the prospect of never being in an intimate relationship with someone, I think your approach is ok. If you find a woman who isn't scared off, you may have found a compatible one.

 

But I'll admit that to most people, you've got red flags all over you in the dating scene

[dawei]

It is also a matter of different perspectives...

 

We may think we're creating a pretty package for someone to open and discovery something of interest.

 

What they see is simply baggage.

[Michael Sternbach]

It's natural that we would like our partner to share our view on love and life. But better don't start with this if you can't be too sure to be understood! Maybe they'll be open to your perspective once they know what a nice and desirable man you are (even though the latter may lead to some kind of paradox here...). Or try to make contact with somebody hot in a spiritual seminar.

[C T]

You might have better luck at a 'spiritual' singles site. There are a few of them around. Or start one yourself?

[stefos]

Sounds as if you were preaching to her.

 

Actually, I wasn't!

 

I posted the video to get her either moving (with me that is) or "Get off the pot."

She was moving too slow for my personal tastes......very slow insofar as communicating with me was concerned. To me, this usually means a person is communicating to more people than me.

 

If a person is online, what harm is there to talking? If you don't agree, an adult would say "It's been nice but I don't see things the way you do." End of discussion.

 

Many dating sites are VERY secular without an ounce of spirituality.

 

For example, the particular site I joined give one the option of saying they are "Spiritual but not religious."

This sounds like something weird to me............Does that statement "Spiritual but not religious" mean anything? To me, no.

 

I will never bother with another "Spiritual but not religious" person again.

BTW, no hard feelings from me...People do what they want to do & believe what they want to believe.

Not many people want to investigate spiritual matters.

 

Yeah...I mean normal people aren't going to get into that sort of thing before the first date. Not even on the first date. But then we aren't exactly normal around here...

 

If you truly believe what you're preaching, and are ok with the prospect of never being in an intimate relationship with someone, I think your approach is ok. If you find a woman who isn't scared off, you may have found a compatible one.

 

But I'll admit that to most people, you've got red flags all over you in the dating scene

 

The "dating scene" in the U.S. is very secular and very money oriented.

 

My experience has shown me that many ladies want to have kids and have the man rake in the money while they become "home-makers." As an adult, I don't need a home maker, I desire a companion & someone who'll live life with me.

 

I actually asked to her watch this video (Of Krishnamurti & Alan Anderson) and she agreed to it.

I did nothing wrong to this person nor did I say anything wrong to her.

 

Could you please clarify your intent behind this statement & smiley?:

"But I'll admit that to most people, you've got red flags all over you in the dating scene :)"

 

 

It is also a matter of different perspectives...

 

We may think we're creating a pretty package for someone to open and discovery something of interest.

 

What they see is simply baggage.

 

Hi,

 

What do you mean by this statement?

"

We may think we're creating a pretty package for someone to open and discovery something of interest.

 

What they see is simply baggage."

 

Are you inferring that I'm nothing but baggage? LOL

Please, I'm not angry......Just wanting clarification.

 

It's natural that we would like our partner to share our view on love and life. But better don't start with this if you can't be too sure to be understood! Maybe they'll be open to your perspective once they know what a nice and desirable man you are (even though the latter may lead to some kind of paradox here...). Or try to make contact with somebody hot in a spiritual seminar.

 

Well, I talked with her about Buddhism and the Buddhist perspective.

She stated that she meditated but my suspicion was that she probably did so in a secularized, half hearted way.

 

This person's perspective was, and I quote, "Spiritual but not religious"

In her particular profile, no mention of spirituality was mentioned.

 

My profile stated very clearly that I want to be with someone of high morals & ethics. No games.

 

You might have better luck at a 'spiritual' singles site. There are a few of them around. Or start one yourself?

 

Hi C.T.

 

Where, pray tell, would those be? I only know of Christianmingle.

 

I'm being serious.

 

Insofar as starting one myself, That's a great idea!

 

Incidentally, What do you think about this video on love?

 

Was Krishnamurti right?

 

Thank you,

Blessings of Guru Garab Dorje on you!

Edited September 30, 2014 by stefos

[thelerner]

, Love, dating.. marriage. its all optional, you don't have to do it. You can live a good life without it. But there are advantages to sharing your life with someone else. There are countless benefits to a good marriage. Dating can be a pain, but it can be fun too. Falling in love is a wild trip, built both into our genes, our jeans, and perhaps a little bit from that God is love stuff.

 

Is this about being dumped and then trying to find 'spiritual' and social reasons to justify giving up on dating and romance?

 

Seems like you're looking for a Professor to student relationship. One where you explain reality to some starry eyed girl. Not a good strategy.

 

Solid recommendations, be funny, be open, listen as much as you talk. Don't send hour long philosophy youtubes. It may sound shallow, but compliment her, hopefully honestly. Everyone has good things about them. Do stuff together, and when you talk philosophy, don't do it in terms of absolutes.

Edited September 30, 2014 by thelerner

[GrandmasterP]

Actually, I wasn't!

 

I posted the video to get her either moving (with me that is) or "Get off the pot."

She was moving too slow for my personal tastes......very slow insofar as communicating with me was concerned. To me, this usually means a person is communicating to more people than me.

 

If a person is online, what harm is there to talking? If you don't agree, an adult would say "It's been nice but I don't see things the way you do." End of discussion.

 

Many dating sites are VERY secular without an ounce of spirituality.

 

For example, the particular site I joined give one the option of saying they are "Spiritual but not religious."

This sounds like something weird to me............Does that statement "Spiritual but not religious" mean anything? To me, no.

 

I will never bother with another "Spiritual but not religious" person again.

BTW, no hard feelings from me...People do what they want to do & believe what they want to believe.

Not many people want to investigate spiritual matters.

 

 

 

The "dating scene" in the U.S. is very secular and very money oriented.

 

My experience has shown me that many ladies want to have kids and have the man rake in the money while they become "home-makers." As an adult, I don't need a home maker, I desire a companion & someone who'll live life with me.

 

I actually asked to her watch this video (Of Krishnamurti & Alan Anderson) and she agreed to it.

I did nothing wrong to this person nor did I say anything wrong to her.

 

Could you please clarify your intent behind this statement & smiley?:

"But I'll admit that to most people, you've got red flags all over you in the dating scene :)"

 

 

 

 

Hi,

 

What do you mean by this statement?

"

We may think we're creating a pretty package for someone to open and discovery something of interest.

 

What they see is simply baggage."

 

Are you inferring that I'm nothing but baggage? LOL

Please, I'm not angry......Just wanting clarification.

 

 

 

Well, I talked with her about Buddhism and the Buddhist perspective.

She stated that she meditated but my suspicion was that she probably did so in a secularized, half hearted way.

 

This person's perspective was, and I quote, "Spiritual but not religious"

In her particular profile, no mention of spirituality was mentioned.

 

My profile stated very clearly that I want to be with someone of high morals & ethics. No games.

 

 

 

Hi C.T.

 

Where, pray tell, would those be? I only know of Christianmingle.

 

I'm being serious.

 

Insofar as starting one myself, That's a great idea!

 

Incidentally, What do you think about this video on love?

 

Was Krishnamurti right?

 

Thank you,

Blessings of Guru Garab Dorje on you!

 

I'd watch out for anyone on a regular dating site who majors on 'spiritual' in their CV.

If that's such a major issue for compatibility then they'd be better off on one of the spiritual themed dating sites.

If you bring up spiritual themes with someone who hasn't mentioned those first then it's quite likely that the person will think...

"No thank you."

Politics and Religion are topics best avoided during introductory exchanges.

[joeblast]

 

Could you please clarify your intent behind this statement & smiley?:

"But I'll admit that to most people, you've got red flags all over you in the dating scene :)"

 

he was saying most people only want the mundane crap. if you're looking for something "extra special," realize that you're searching for something rare and the vast majority of people simply aint going to get it, or they will be otherwise entirely uninterested. so dont be perturbed when you arent finding what you're looking for, because it might simply not be the right time. that doesnt mean shut your eyes. just dont be perturbed about your eyes not seeing what you would like them to see.

[thelerner]

There are people who search so exclusively for 'extra special' that they walk over unpolished diamonds. Also people might be overestimating there own extra specialness too. I think we make someone special by .. treating them special, finding out about them. Sure its good to have mutual interests, but beware if you're looking for a clone or a supermodel.

 

What I'm saying is don't be so quick to declare whole groups off the table. In the OP a girl who labeled herself 'spiritual but not religious' wrote him off and in consequence he'll never date anyone who puts down again. That sentiment is self defeating, in dating and probably in life.

 

Cause dating (& much of success) is a numbers game. It usually won't work out but when it does, its sweet. There's a learning curve to it. My advice is be open, get experience, so when you find the right person you'll be an interesting worthwhile catch yourself.

[stefos]

, Love, dating.. marriage. its all optional, you don't have to do it. You can live a good life without it. But there are advantages to sharing your life with someone else. There are countless benefits to a good marriage. Dating can be a pain, but it can be fun too. Falling in love is a wild trip, built both into our genes, our jeans, and perhaps a little bit from that God is love stuff.

 

Is this about being dumped and then trying to find 'spiritual' and social reasons to justify giving up on dating and romance?

 

Seems like you're looking for a Professor to student relationship. One where you explain reality to some starry eyed girl. Not a good strategy.

 

Solid recommendations, be funny, be open, listen as much as you talk. Don't send hour long philosophy youtubes. It may sound shallow, but compliment her, hopefully honestly. Everyone has good things about them. Do stuff together, and when you talk philosophy, don't do it in terms of absolutes.

 

Hi Thelemer,

 

Thanks for your insights....they are appreciated.

 

However, I disagree with you and you've fundamentally misunderstood me......Let me "take it from the top:"

 

1. Love, being selfless, is not optional for me or the world. Period. It is mandatory.

 

2. This is not "about being dumped and then trying to find 'spiritual' and social reasons to justify giving up on dating and romance?" but rather it's about myself expressing his views because of what he has come to understand insofar as certain particulars are concerned about Love, dating & marriage.

 

3. I am not "looking for a Professor to student relationship. One where you explain reality to some starry eyed girl. Not a good strategy."

I AM looking for a companion with which I can share my heart with and who will listen to my perspective and I hers.

 

The following things have been involved in my life, either directly or indirectly:

Being first generation American

Having relatives with deep mental illness

Being the first person in my family to get an advanced degree

Drugs

Alcohol

Comparative religious studies

Paranormal things such as Prophetic words & a Ghost I saw floating across the hallway of my friends home

Being a combat veteran of the U.S. Army which I was

Suicide

Etc.

 

My heart is to be a blessing to ALL people, not just "those I like" and who agree with me.

 

You're right about the hour long video however, she told me she enjoyed a similar video of Krishnamurti and Alan Anderson speaking together actually!

 

That's it friend,

My love to you

Stefos

 

Thank you

Edited September 30, 2014 by stefos

[Aetherous]

.

Edited October 1, 2014 by Aetherous

[gendao]

Eating....Sleeping.....Breathng....Why?

 

If "we" don't really exist...then why bother?

 

Why?

[dust]

Politics and Religion are topics best avoided during introductory exchanges.

 

I dunno.. I had a blind date last year; we talked for an hour or so in comfort, and all was nice. After a while, the conversation turned to politics and she ended up attacking the UK whilst extolling the virtues of the CCP. We got into an argument and finished the date on a less than harmonious note. (I'm not a patriot, by any stretch of the imagination, but would've been incredulous at such nonsense accusations being directed at almost any country)

 

All this to say, I'm glad we got that out of the way on the first date...there was no need to waste more time on it...

Edited September 30, 2014 by dustybeijing

[stefos]

Eating....Sleeping.....Breathng....Why?

 

If "we" don't really exist...then why bother?

 

Why?

 

Hi Vortex,

 

I don't understand why you've used the same format in questioning as I have.

 

Sir, are you mocking me OR are you being serious?

I really do not know.

 

If you're mocking........stop it please.

 

If you're being serious, then here's my offering to you:

 

You assume that there is no "me".....Before you say there is no "me" Can you please define the me you're denying? This is extremely important.

 

Ex. Buddhists says that we are Emptiness or in other schools of thought, Emptiness & Perfection.

Christians say that we are Spirits that use the mind, brain and body.

Esotericists say that we are small gods, Spirits that is, that use the mind, brain and body towards either continuous expression of being the Godhead in the fullest sense of that word or not.

Advaita Vedantins say that we are......Sat-Chit-Anand..Period.

 

We all have a body & brain & mind.

 

The body interfaces with the world

The brain interfaces with the body & world

The mind interfaces with the world & body & manifests via thoughts/abstractions/ideals/archetypes.

 

I believe, due to certain "metaphysical" perceptions, that we are more than just body & brain bio-chemical "units" as modern materialism would have us believe.

 

So, The "why" to your question depends on the Ontology & the teleology of it or in other words, your question(s) can be answered a billion ways but in truth, there is ONLY one answer which has many sides to it. So there is the paradox! One true answer but with many different facets.

 

Ex.

Buddhists believe that being born as a human can be a good thing because only humans can be enlightened. Dzogchen says that the "nature of your mind" is Emptiness which contains endless potential for manifestation & Perfect-in-and-of-itself

Christians believe that being born as a human means that God chose you to be born & wants relationship with you and that you become one with God via the Holy Spirit.

Materialists believe that being born is either a deliberate or "chance" thing in which you exist & then die.

Esotericists believe that you, being part & parcel of God, work on yourself to be more like God, ultimately being God in the fullest sense of the word.

 

Finally, I ask that in the future, you please post something in line with my thread.

As it is, you've "hijacked" the thread as it's called in internet parlance.

Please don't do it again. Instead, PM someone in private.

 

I send my love to you, (Please don't take this in a sexual way, it is not intended to be so whatsoever)

Stefos

Edited October 1, 2014 by stefos

[Michael Sternbach]

I think that intimate relationships are powerful vehicles for spiritual growth - where intense love is activated, things that are not in line with it tend to surface. Projection on the partner gets involved. What matters is not so much to avoid these things as to understand what is truly happening and use it to heal what is in need of healing inside you.

Edited October 1, 2014 by Michael Sternbach

[joeblast]

 

 

Finally, I ask that in the future, you please post something in line with my thread.

chill out, it was in line with the thread. when discussing a tree, how far back to its origins does one want to go? all a matter of context. you'll have an easier time if you dont automatically take this stance. often guidance involves leading the guide-ee to ask himself the right questions as opposed to presenting him with the correct answers.

[Bud Jetsun]

My message to her was that love = God & God = love.

 

Love = Love

 

Fear = Fear

 

 

So, for all of you who care about being in a relationship leading to marriage or not, ask yourself these questions honestly:

Why am I seeking to date a person?

Am I seeking fulfillment IN another human being?

What does marriage actually mean?

Why should I get married?

 

I hope my experience has caused you to laugh & to think!

 

I send my love to all of you

Stefos

 

 

No matter where one travels and what company one keeps, it's still yourself you are with.

[stefos]

Love = Love

 

Fear = Fear

 

 

 

 

No matter where one travels and what company one keeps, it's still yourself you are with.

 

Hi Bud Jetsun,

 

I respectfully disagree and respectfully agree!

 

When a person posits "Love" that "Love" needs to be qualified.

 

To me when I read the Bible or examine the nature of mind in Dzogchen or I look into the nature of Brahman...I see no difference because real LOVE is where the self is not! Period.

 

The bible states that "Love seeks not its own" i.e. selfless

Dzogchen says that the nature of mind is perfect from the beginning...that would include selfless Love

Brahman is none other than Sat-Chit-Anand......Again no self.

 

You see my friend THE problem is the self, not love.

 

I am the problem.......You are the problem.....nothing else matters until this self gets resolved to no-thing.

 

And yes, wherever I go there I am............Let's pause and think about this deeply.......

 

I send my love (that is affection & care) to you in sincerity.

Stefos

[ralis]

Hi Bud Jetsun,

 

I respectfully disagree and respectfully agree!

 

When a person posits "Love" that "Love" needs to be qualified.

 

To me when I read the Bible or examine the nature of mind in Dzogchen or I look into the nature of Brahman...I see no difference because real LOVE is where the self is not! Period.

 

The bible states that "Love seeks not its own" i.e. selfless

Dzogchen says that the nature of mind is perfect from the beginning...that would include selfless Love

Brahman is none other than Sat-Chit-Anand......Again no self.

 

You see my friend THE problem is the self, not love.

 

I am the problem.......You are the problem.....nothing else matters until this self gets resolved to no-thing.

 

And yes, wherever I go there I am............Let's pause and think about this deeply.......

 

I send my love (that is affection & care) to you in sincerity.

Stefos

 

Why are you sending love, blessings and light to everyone at the end of every post? As for myself, I am not interested.

Edited October 1, 2014 by ralis

[Bud Jetsun]

Hi Bud Jetsun,

 

I respectfully disagree and respectfully agree!

 

When a person posits "Love" that "Love" needs to be qualified.

 

To me when I read the Bible or examine the nature of mind in Dzogchen or I look into the nature of Brahman...I see no difference because real LOVE is where the self is not! Period.

 

If I drink a potion that shuts down all perceptions of self and conscious mind, would I become God and Love in your reality?

 

 

I send my love (that is affection & care) to you in sincerity.

Stefos

 

Thank you kindly, I receive it graciously with a welcoming heart and return my own unlimited unconditional unbreakable Love to you and all beings capable of awareness of Love.

 

With Unlimited Love,

-Bud

[Michael Sternbach]

Stefos,

 

If self and love are mutually exclusive, then:

- Who is it who loves?

- Who is it who (wishes to) receive love?

- Who do you love (if not another self)?

Edited October 2, 2014 by Michael Sternbach

[stefos]

Why are you sending love, blessings and light to everyone at the end of every post? As for myself, I am not interested.

 

Sir, hello.

 

The reason I do so is because I have been bruised and crushed and am learning to exchange self with other.

 

Until a person is "broken," per se, they will not be able to bring healing. It's a paradox but a true one.

 

Furthermore:

If you are not interested why did you post here? Just don't post anymore.

 

Take care and goodbye

 

If I drink a potion that shuts down all perceptions of self and conscious mind, would I become God and Love in your reality?

 

 

 

Thank you kindly, I receive it graciously with a welcoming heart and return my own unlimited unconditional unbreakable Love to you and all beings capable of awareness of Love.

 

With Unlimited Love,

-Bud

 

HI Bud,

 

You're welcome sir........Thank you for your kindness & sincerity.

 

Regarding the "potion" question you pose:

 

I am in no position to answer a question like that as I am not All-knowing......I can only share my current perceptions with you sir.

 

And that I would do in private only as I have "learned my lesson" on a public forum.

 

Be well and be mindful....It's better than being mindless!

 

Stefos,

 

If self and love are mutually exclusive, then:

- Who is it who loves?

- Who is it who (wishes to) receive love?

- Who do you love (if not another self)?

 

I never said that self & love are mutually exclusive Michael.....first off.

 

The answer to your 3 questions depends upon one's worldview, Doesn't it?

 

The Christian answer

The Buddhist answer

The Advaita Vedantin answer

The Esoteric/Occult answer

Etc.

 

I have done comparative religious/spiritual studies for over 12 years and have learned about different religions/types of spirituality.

 

Hashem bless you

 

P.S.

"And he brought me to his banqueting table and his banner over me is Love"

Koheleth/Koheles

Edited October 2, 2014 by stefos

[Mark Foote]

It's a fallen situation
When all eyes are turned in
And a love isn't flowing
The way it could have been.

You brought it all on
Oh, but it feels so wrong
You brought it all on
No, no, no,
I don't believe this song
You brought it all on.

It's a sad communication
With little reason to believe
When one isn't giving
And one pretends to receive.

You brought it all on
Oh, but it feels so wrong
You brought it all on
No, no, no,
I don't believe this song
You brought it all on.

Pardon my heart
If I show that I care
But I love you
more than moments
We have or have not shared.

You brought it all on
Oh, and it feels so good
You brought it all on
When love flows
the way that it should
You brought it all on.

It feels so good
It feels so good
feels good.

 

 

That would be the lyrics to

by Neil Young.

 

So it goes wrong, and it can go right. My way of making sense of these things for a long time now has been to look to the friendship, and leave the magic to the higher power-- like a twelve-step thing it's a confession of helplessness.

 

And how is that working out for you, Mark, you might say... well I'm solo, but I have a lot of very good friends.

Edited October 2, 2014 by Mark Foote