Choosing Between Daoism and Buddhism

[doc benway]

Enjoyed your reply Steve and your signature quote from Nisargadatta too. Thanks for sharing. Best wishes, Heath

 

Thanks Heath, I appreciate that

[Andrei]

I just found this article about Quanzhen which is a synthesis of Confucian, Buddhist and Taoist teachings initiated by Wang Chongyang.

http://www.magia-metachemica.net/uploads/1/0/6/2/10624795/fifteen_discourse_-_hong-chau.pdf

[BaguaKicksAss]

Sometimes it is more about what sort of teacher you bump into, which can share some amazing stuff .

[sillybearhappyhoneyeater]

They are all good!

Choose for yourself based on your own best judgment.

The best situation is that you can learn from all sources while still retaining your own self.

My teacher is Daoist but studied Buddhism, Christianity, and Islam, as well as western philosophy (must have been difficult for him at the start, I remember how his english was back then lol....).

I like to take every part of life and use it to the best benefit possible,

it is all very useful and practical under the right circumstances.

[PLB]

The idea of choosing involves looking for differences. Synthesis can be good. What makes it good cannot happen without being able to see how they are are different. I am just a piker struggling to understand lots of things that overwhelm me. So I do not claim to speak with any authority. I say the following without pretending to have some kind of ultimate argument that can stand as a last word. It is just an account of how I separate the two pursuits (Taoist/Bhuddist) in my thinking.

What strongly attracts me to the Taoist texts and the practices based upon their cosmology is that they don't talk about a self. It comes up but more as a demonstration of the result of adherence to a process than being a reason why stuff happens the way it does.

One way to look at the development of different kinds of psychology is to see how different systems describe why the things that are happening with people are happening. So these different systems connect what is happening in life with other people in different ways. What if some models are better than others?

How would one go about asking which is best?

When I read Zhuangzi, I hear him bearing down on that problem. The emphasis is upon the use of logic in language.

 

Unlike many other thinkers, he doesn't actually give an answer. He just explains why it is hard to talk about. But he does say the world is the way it is because of the way it was formed.

 

I really like that. He doesn't try to prove what he is acting upon as the truth. He isn't even explaining it.

 

But he does a good job of explaining why he cannot explain it.

[9th]

or in other words could one call oneself a "Buddho-Daoist"?

 

one could call themselves whatever they wish, could they not?

 

for example, I could call myself "King of the World"!

 

[Pablo]

Rather than choosing between labels, I would focus on methodology.

 

The clearest Taoist path I have found is given by Bruce Frantzis Kumar in his book "Relaxing into your Being". I have written a brief summary here. Theravada Buddhist progress map is probably the best in many ways for westerners, check this. See that most of energetic descriptions here in Taobums match with Theravadas's Arising & Passing stage. I highly recommend Daniel Ingram's MCTB book which you can read for free in the previous link. Next year he'll print an expanded edition.

 

Having said that, I'm 100% on Taoist/Zen's Return to the Source/Note Vanishings, as described by Shinzen Young (pages 95-103). It's a truly (no bullshit) Taoist path boosted by an Buddhist analytic frame. The progression map is described here (pages 40-45).

 

Best wishes!

Edited October 8, 2014 by Pablo

[Kongming]

Thanks for the replies everyone, I guess I was concerned that following two paths or traditions might lead to confusion rather than clarity, or prove a hindrance rather than a benefit. Furthermore, while I understood the mutual influence that Daoism and Buddhism had on each other in China, the fact that there was polemics between the two throughout their history also concerned me. I've also heard the analogy before of a particular spiritual tradition being a path up the mountaintop, but that one must follow a path rather than attempting to follow multiple paths.

 

That said, it seems to me much of what has been said in this thread is true. Buddhism and Daoism are quite similar to each other in most regards, and hence integrating practices from both, like Nan Huaijin has done in modern times for example, is quite possible. I suppose what may be most important is finding a good master.

[Wayfarer]

What's wrong with being silent and still? Do you need a master to help you with that? No joke, and not trying to be awkward Kongming. Whatever practice you end up 'doing' if you persevere you will come back to silence and stillness You could save a lot of time by keeping to simplicity now rather than learning to un-learn later.

 

Good luck whatever you decide.

[宁]

pfff, you make it sound like it's the same type of choice one makes between a ham sandwich and a cheeseburger, a turtle neck or a sweater, pasta or pizza...

damn consumerism

[doc benway]

What's wrong with being silent and still? Do you need a master to help you with that?

They are two of the greatest practices but very challenging for many people. Most do need the help of a master to master stillness and silence. First, we need to value those qualities - not natural at all in the West. Then we need to practice them correctly - more difficult than it sounds. But the results are well worth the (non)effort.

[Rara]

Thanks for the replies everyone, I guess I was concerned that following two paths or traditions might lead to confusion rather than clarity, or prove a hindrance rather than a benefit. Furthermore, while I understood the mutual influence that Daoism and Buddhism had on each other in China, the fact that there was polemics between the two throughout their history also concerned me. I've also heard the analogy before of a particular spiritual tradition being a path up the mountaintop, but that one must follow a path rather than attempting to follow multiple paths.

 

That said, it seems to me much of what has been said in this thread is true. Buddhism and Daoism are quite similar to each other in most regards, and hence integrating practices from both, like Nan Huaijin has done in modern times for example, is quite possible. I suppose what may be most important is finding a good master.

No harm in cherry picking from multiple ideas. It's you that decides what to keep and what to discard.

 

People here aren't trying to put you off getting a "master"... But they are understanding that you will only be led if you are wanting to follow...

 

There is a fine line between blind faith and discovering yourself.

 

Knowing yourself is enlightenment - Lao Tzu...

 

So just beware, and follow your needs.

[Benji]

What was taught to me about the difference between Daoism and Buddhism, and which I have more or less confirmed for myself through practices from both traditions, is that Buddhism primarily focuses on clearing the Mind whereas Daoism aims to strengthen the Shen. Granted this is a generalization, and the teacher was a Daoist himself, but it has fit my general experience. It makes sense when you look at it through this continuum:

 

Spirit--->Mind-->Intention-->Qi---->Blood--->Body or Shen--->Xin--->Yi--->Qi--->Xue--->Shen (body)

 

This represents the "trickle down" of spirit if you will. Like the sun shining down to earth. In an ideal person, spirit informs the mind, which informs the yi, which directs the qi, which directs the blood, and which moves the body. In an enlightened? person this step down process happens clearly and quickly; in an ordinary person there are layers of karma/blockages/ clouds in the way obscuring the sun.

 

Take a typical Buddhist practice like Vipassana. You do not aim to create any particular sensations or states. Its all good, you are just letting go of your resistance to the experience you are having. This works on the attachments of your mind. It makes the clouds thinner between you and the sun of spirit. Enough practice and then qi and blood will flow better. Another way of classifying this practice is apaphatic, or something that empties you.

 

In Daoist meditations I've done, you aim to strengthen the Shen, sometimes by visualizing Sun and Moon inside your body, simultaneously strengthening your qi. As your qi and shen get stronger it brings your blockages to the surface, forcing you to deal with them. Its like strengthening the sun, which then burns through the clouds.This is an kapaphatic practice, or one that fills you.

 

 

I have found both practices useful at different times. For instance if I am really resisting something in myself, I find it more beneficial to practice some quiescent meditation without a "goal." If I were to practice filling myself at such times, it might even make my resistance/blockage worse.

 

If I feel myself too empty/deflated I will do a kapaphatic practice to brighten my insides if you will.

 

To me it is a balance between becoming full of energy and having the stillness and emptiness to let that energy flow. This is not the exclusive difference between Daoism/Buddhism, nor is it true in all cases/traditions, but it works for me

[lifeforce]

In Daoism there is a source, in Buddhism there is not. Someday you may have to choose a path to follow as the two obviously clash and confusion will arise.