beyonder Posted October 6, 2014 Beyonder: Taoist sages lead normal lives? Well they don't become sales and marketing managers, government officials or banking executives, if that's what you mean. But normal lives? The taoist "sages" or close to - that I know - are writers, artists, teachers, businessmen, adventurers, lovers, friends, warriors. I suspect they lead the most intriguing and nerve-wracking lives you can think of. Which, however, may be quite normal.. Where in this thread did I talk 'bout daoist "sages"? Daoists maybe, but "sages"? To me, a sage is a plant from the genus salvia. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted October 6, 2014 Hehehe. Seems we are having a misunderstanding. Those are fun as long as we keep our sense of humor. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sillybearhappyhoneyeater Posted October 7, 2014 laozi belieaved that the best defense was kindness: "I have three things I hold and protect, the first is kindness, the second is frugality, the third is to not be brave before the world's origin." on the other hand, self defense is not decried in daoist literature. Consider that defending oneself is one of the main points of the DDJ. Laozi is telling people in power that they ought to be cautious about many things - most of which have to do with their own behaviour "everyone seems so happy, as if sitting on a spring terrace eating a roast - I am the only one who seem afraid and can't predict, like a baby but not a child - tired with nowhere to return. others have a surplus, I alone am lacking" etc... staying to oneself and not advertising ones greatness is a way of defending oneself. I recently watched the City talks episode with Robert Young Pelton, http://www.ideacityonline.com/video/dangerous-places-revisited-robert-young-pelton/ who goes into war torn regions of the world to do real media reporting. Because he is the only Western person willing to do this work, and does not assume the stance of one who wishes to treat those fighting as media enemies, he got to spend a great deal of time with the Talliban among other groups. this is a good example of being kind and willing to accept others, and by proxy defending oneself. In terms of physical confrotnations on the street - this stuff also applies - if no one thinks you have anything they might want, very rarely will they ever attack you. Egotism is in creating conflict with other people for no good reason. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sillybearhappyhoneyeater Posted October 7, 2014 Beyonder: Taoist sages lead normal lives? Well they don't become sales and marketing managers, government officials or banking executives, if that's what you mean. But normal lives? The taoist "sages" or close to - that I know - are writers, artists, teachers, businessmen, adventurers, lovers, friends, warriors. I suspect they lead the most intriguing and nerve-wracking lives you can think of. Which, however, may be quite normal.. Hu Haiya and his teacher postulated that the highest level of Daoism was to be able to effortlessly fit in with those living in the normal world. one of the truly sagely people I know in the Daoism field is just a normal guy who runs a business and does kindly things for others. If I remember correctly , the three levels of Daoism were low level: monks - they can become enlightened but have to do so by leaving the world mid level: government people - it was harder to be enlightened with all the good food, concubines, and tough descisions to be made as advisor (remember that laozi originally inhabited a government post) high level: living amongst the "laobaixing" and helping them make it through their suffering, with no thought ones own benefit. Living in society and doing kind things is the highest level of daoism. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted October 7, 2014 on the other hand, self defense is not decried in daoist literature. Chuang Tzu speaks of it on numerous occasions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Perceiver Posted October 7, 2014 Sorry beyonder - my mistake. I must have confused your post with another one. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rara Posted October 12, 2014 (edited) I have a simple question that I feel does not have a simple answer: Is engaging in self defense an act of egotism (against a soul that obviously has ego issues)? Basically there are two and a half answers that are possible: Yes No Martial arts and all of the physical "monk-like" endeavors are utilized for their spiritual value and development, not self defense. I'm kind of in the middle of such a hypothetical three way battle with myself, and I was looking for opinions based on the logic of Eastern Belief Systems on both sides of the debate so I can make up my own mind, which will help me understand the soul energy vs ego struggle that is going on in my spiritual plane at the moment. Thanks! - Soaren I haven't read a lot of posts here but will answer first off my take on this. While lots of practitioners decide to meditate to diminish ego, I only feel this is necessary at the beginning of cultivation. If we're not careful, the ego will be close to non-existant. This will make us more prone to not caring about our own selves in a self-defence situation and therefore losing in what could be a life or death situation. As is the yin and yang, balance is the answer. If you have too much ego, cultivate modesty...but if you are so modest, reverse this! Either way, it doesn't stop one practicing self-defence/martial arts Edited October 12, 2014 by Rara Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rara Posted October 12, 2014 (edited) Beyonder: Taoist sages lead normal lives? Well they don't become sales and marketing managers, government officials or banking executives, if that's what you mean. But normal lives? The taoist "sages" or close to - that I know - are writers, artists, teachers, businessmen, adventurers, lovers, friends, warriors. I suspect they lead the most intriguing and nerve-wracking lives you can think of. Which, however, may be quite normal.. Just curious...could you differentiate between a sales/marketing manager and a businessman? I mean, one could technically be both. And I still ponder...maybe a sage can be those that you listed as "wouldn't be"....I mean, knowing one's path/role in life is quite Tao, no? And musicians/writers can still have ego...boy, don't I know it! XD Edited October 12, 2014 by Rara Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tursiops Posted October 13, 2014 If someone attacks you, they have lost harmony, with themselves, with you and with the universe. If you have the skill the kindest thing you can do for them is to help bring them back into harmony. If the attack is physical then this would be done by self defense. However self-defense in the above context must mean limiting any pain/damage done to another. The amount you can limit it is necessarily based on the level you have attained in your martial art or fighting style and the spiritual nature of that art/style. It need not be a question of ego of self vs. them. It is merely like bringing a lost sheep back into the fold. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
宁 Posted October 14, 2014 It is, absolutely egotistical, the spiritual thing to do is to let the other one mugg you, rape you, stab you or shoot you, because it's your Karma. Don't worry, the Universe will take care of him, and if he kills you, your Karma is transferred to him, saving you countless rebirths, how neat is that! Don't worry, just dissolve into the Light, brother. Plus you're freed from this meat cage, free to fly away and be with the angels on the higher planes. Which I hope you actually do, you and all the people posting simmilar questions... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted October 14, 2014 It is, absolutely egotistical, I don't know how to pronounce your name but, Hey You!, that was a fantastic post!!! And I better not say anything else at the moment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dust Posted October 14, 2014 An odd question. Why bring "ego" into it? Is eating egotistical? Breathing? Asking this very question? My preferred question would be "is self-defence useful?" or "do we need self-defence?" To which I would answer, it depends on what one means by self-defence. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
宁 Posted October 14, 2014 I don't know how to pronounce your name but, Hey You!, that was a fantastic post!!! And I better not say anything else at the moment. Call me Little1, Marbles. Somebody's enjoying my twisted humour, lol. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrei Posted October 14, 2014 His name is Ning ...wtf does it means? (eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
宁 Posted October 15, 2014 It doesn't mean anything, it's an umbrella. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
