What you do not want done to yourself ...

[PimonratC]

.

"What you do not want done to yourself,

do not do to others."

...Confucius, The Confucian Analects...

.

[dust]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rule

 

It seems to have been covered fairly well throughout history. Most seem to be in agreement...

 

As far as the specific wording in your post.. it depends on how strictly one interprets it, doesn't it?

I know people who give to charity but who would balk at the idea of receiving charity; I know a tattoo artist who doesn't want a tattoo...

[Chang]

Do not do unto others as you expect they should do unto you. Their tastes may not be the same.

George Bernard Shaw

[Nungali]

Mhe ....

 

it not quiet as bad as the other one . The affirmative version is worse - lets say I am very Christian religious and I seek eternal life in heaven ... wouldn't I give anything for that ... if I lost my faith, would I not want it back ... anyway I could ... what could be worse than eternal hell? Nothing ... so I would be grateful to anyone that did anything to help me get to heaven ... even torturing my body and killing me. And I might just be charitable enough to do for others what I would want done for myself .

 

Why is it always in term of what " I " want ... or dont want?

 

What about what others want?

 

What about we all just ; dont do to others what they dont want us to do to them?

 

and

 

Do unto others as they would have us do unto them ? (feed the hungry ... give IS their 'martyrdom' ... )

 

 

There are certain things I dont want others to do to me ... but some of my friends like it when I do it to them.

[Flolfolil]

...

Edited March 5, 2015 by Flolfolil

[dust]

What about we all just ; dont do to others what they dont want us to do to them?

 

and

 

Do unto others as they would have us do unto them ?

 

Well, I suppose we don't always know what others want. People are all different.

 

The "Golden Rule" offers a baseline: you know what you want or don't want -- as opposed to guessing what other people might not want.

 

But there's no point getting too caught up in it. I think over-indulgence in moral guidelines based on arguments of linguistics and logic probably distracts from people actually just being nice to each other...

[Nungali]

'Guessing" ? ? ?

 

How did guessing into it ?

 

All sorts of people all around me are constantly telling me what they want, what they want to get and what they dont want.

 

 

The "Golden Rule" offers a baseline: you know what you want or don't want -- as opposed to guessing what other people might not want."

 

What ? ...

 

So, because I know what I want ... that means ' I guess ' they want the same ? So I dont bother listening to them clearly about their own wants?

[Nungali]

'Guessing" ? ? ?

 

How did guessing into it ?

 

All sorts of people all around me are constantly telling me what they want, what they want to get and what they dont want.

 

 

The "Golden Rule" offers a baseline: you know what you want or don't want -- as opposed to guessing what other people might not want."

 

What ? ...

 

So, because I know what I want ... that means ' I guess ' they want the same ? So I dont bother listening to them clearly about their own wants?

At an ever increasing rate, I find all over the internet, that people re-interpret what you write, misinterpret or even add their own concepts onto what another writes and then criticize their own ideas as if they were the others.

[dust]

Whoaa..... chill...

 

 

You said: "dont do to others what they dont want us to do to them" & "Do unto others as they would have us do unto them"

 

So I said: "we don't always know what others want"

 

 

My point is, changing the wording doesn't make it any easier.

 

Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you: What if I want to be harmed? Does that mean I should harm others?

Do unto others as they'd have us do unto them: What if they want to be harmed? Should I ever harm someone?

 

We can't possibly know what others want or don't want all the time. Everyone has different wants. In the case of the hungry or poor, sure, we assume they want food or money. But it's not always so simple.

[thelerner]

Hmnn, Get your own house in order before doing onto others anything..

 

Be so good and self sufficient that you don't need others to do anything onto you.

 

Do onto others first the thing they would do unto you.

 

Smile when others do onto you good

& Smile when others do onto you bad (it'll confuse them & make'em nervous)

[woodcarver]

Doesn't Chuang Tzu also mention the platinum rule?

[Nungali]

Whoaa..... chill...

 

You said: "dont do to others what they dont want us to do to them" & "Do unto others as they would have us do unto them" So I said: "we don't always know what others want"

 

No ... stop changing things ... you did not ... and saying ' whoaa ... chill ' wont change it .'

 

You said " as opposed to guessing what other people might not want. " As if I suggesting going around guessing what people want is the solution, I never said that, And when I make it clear ... I need 'to chill' ?

 

And my point is that we dont assume any of it , why cant THEY say what they want or dont want ?

 

My point is, changing the wording doesn't make it any easier.

 

Of course it does - it takes projection out of the picture.

Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you: What if I want to be harmed? Does that mean I should harm others?

Do unto others as they'd have us do unto them: What if they want to be harmed? Should I ever harm someone?

 

Discernment . Do you know what that is ?

 

I am not suggesting you are compelled to do what others want or not even when they ask or tell you ... this is an outlined 'code' ... not a suggestion that someone has power over you and you have to do what they want or dont want.

 

We can't possibly know what others want or don't want all the time. Everyone has different wants.

 

Why do keep insisting that 'we know' trumps 'what they communicate' ? You seem stuck on assumptions ?

 

In the case of the hungry or poor, sure, we assume they want food or money. But it's not always so simple.

 

Okay, I will try to explain it ;

 

A group of friends I had, had a junkie member ... constantly falling down and off the wagon, go on a smack binge, lose the plot and get picked up by the friends, nursed back, interventions, support assistance ... then back into it. Borrow money, never pay it back. Always trying to 'save ' him. Ridiculous!

 

Eventually he told them to fuck off "Cant you people see , I want to be a junky ... leave me alone ... I will just go back to it again anyway."

 

I never bought it ... the one time he spun a 'loan me money story' I said "No way! You're kidding me? Its not for back rent , its for smack - I'm not stupid you know!" I saw him the other day , hitchhiking the other way to the way I was going ... he waved and grinned at me ... he looked happy. I am not giving him money for smack ... but I am not his mother.

 

He might be dead tomorrow ... but that is his choice. I would want someone to pull me out of that scene ... but that is because I dont like that scene - he does.

[Nungali]

Hmnn, Get your own house in order before doing onto others anything..

 

Be so good and self sufficient that you don't need others to do anything onto you.

 

Ha! I like that ... 'do anything onto you '

 

 

Do onto others first the thing they would do unto you.

 

Nothing like a good pre-emptive strike !

 

Smile when others do onto you good

& Smile when others do onto you bad (it'll confuse them & make'em nervous)

 

Smile broadly and advance towards them slowly

Edited October 9, 2014 by Nungali

[dust]

No ... stop changing things ... you did not ...

 

Yes, I did.

 

I said "Well, I suppose we don't always know what others want. People are all different."

 

That is exactly what I said. You can scroll up and read it. It was the first thing I said.

 

You ignored that first sentence and are claiming that's not what I said.

 

You are the one stuck on the word "guessing", as if that was my whole point, and my objective was simply to twist your words.

 

Continue to get angry if you like, but I'm bored of this nonsense. You sound like a petulant child.

[Vmarco]

 

Do not do unto others as you expect they should do unto you. Their tastes may not be the same.

George Bernard Shaw

 

Sure,...however, most people prefer the "golden rule"....for example, Christian Evangelists, Muslim Jihadists, and various psychopaths. OK,...those folks are not the majority,...however, the majority does indeed enable them, which only occurs because the majority is fundamentally sick.

 

"it is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society" J Krishnamurti

[dust]

I'd like to clear this up.

 

Let's say you're swimming in a lake, and see a person in the middle of the lake, barely moving. It looks like they're drowning or have drowned, and there's no one else around. What do you do?

 

 

1. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you

 

You would either want them to save you, or you wouldn't.

I would want to be saved, because I don't believe that in my case this would ever be a result of attempted suicide.

I think most people would say, "I would want to be saved", and would go ahead and save the person.

But what if it was a suicide? You save them based on knowledge of your own preference, not theirs. Maybe you're wrong.

 

2. Do not unto others as you would have them not do unto you

 

You would either want them to not let you die, or not save you. In the end, the same result as (1)

 

 

3. Do unto others as they would have you do unto them

 

You cannot ask them what they want. They might be drowning by accident, or they might be trying to drown.

Your action will be informed by your best guess as to whether or not they look like they want to die. But this will be all but impossible to discern.

Ultimately, then, your action will probably be informed by what you think you would want someone else to do for you, because you are your only frame of reference in this case.

 

4. Do not do unto others as they would have you not do unto them

 

Ultimately the same result as (3)

 

 

Do you see, then, that none of these "rules" are universally applicable? There will often be a certain amount of educated guesswork, and all we can do is our best. This was my point. Please stop being angered.

[Nungali]

 

Please stop being angered.

 

Continue to get angry if you like,

 

 

Well, of course, my philosophy (give 'em what they want, not what I think they want) doesnt apply to people who cant seen to decide what they want anyway.

[dust]

Yes, I changed my approach when I realised how negative that other post sounded.

 

I said, "I'd like to clear this up", and asked that you (we) not continue to get angry about it all. Doing my best to clear it up.

 

I then layed out an example that I believe illustrates my point (why guesswork will sometimes be involved; why you are wrong) and you ignore it in favour of attacking my conflicting emotions. This is not helpful.

 

However, it does serve to further illustrate my point. Some people don't know what they want. In such a case, you are your only frame of reference.

 

 

 

You are wrong.

 

And the irony of it all is that you're not even following your own advice. You haven't asked me how I'd like to be treated. You've simply decided that I'm a bad or stupid person and proceeded to argue and get angry with everything I say.

[thelerner]

In the same vein. Let's say we're programming a robot. We can use English. What rules would we program in? Would we use the golden rule and how would that effect a robot without much needs or emotion.

 

Its interesting how our needs create the need for the golden rule.

Edited October 11, 2014 by thelerner

[Nungali]

Yes, I changed my approach when I realised how negative that other post sounded.

 

I said, "I'd like to clear this up", and asked that you (we) not continue to get angry about it all. Doing my best to clear it up.

 

I then layed out an example that I believe illustrates my point (why guesswork will sometimes be involved; why you are wrong) and you ignore it in favour of attacking my conflicting emotions. This is not helpful.

 

However, it does serve to further illustrate my point. Some people don't know what they want. In such a case, you are your only frame of reference.

 

 

 

You are wrong.

 

And the irony of it all is that you're not even following your own advice. You haven't asked me how I'd like to be treated. You've simply decided that I'm a bad or stupid person and proceeded to argue and get angry with everything I say.

 

Gosh ... I haven't played posters pingpong here for a while

 

Oh ... I have decided that you are bad and stupid now have I ? ? ? However, at least you can see the ironic set-up now.

 

Look ... you keep insisting I am angry (even when I never responded to your post).

 

I am actually dancing.

 

I agree with you ... it must be very annoying when someone wants you to be angry and attack them more ... and they wont get angry and attack them more

 

but dance with them instead

 

and they are not treating you the way you are asking to be treated ... or they are even claiming it is the way they are being treated

 

but instead they are ; doing unto you, as they would like to be done unto themselves ...

[Nungali]

In relation to the drowning person issue, some might find this interesting ... I did .... years ago (despite an 8% rating at 'Rotten Tomatoes'.)

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boom!_(film)

 

[dust]

At an ever increasing rate, I find all over the internet, that people re-interpret what you write, misinterpret or even add their own concepts onto what another writes and then criticize their own ideas as if they were the others.

 

To me, this seemed like you were offended or annoyed by what I'd said. It sounded negative.

 

Since then, everything I've said has been an honest attempt to clear up my meaning and show that I wasn't misinterpreting anything. I never wanted to offend, and it honestly seemed like you had taken umbridge to what I'd said.

 

Now I know to just ignore you.

Edited October 12, 2014 by dustybeijing

[Nungali]

Yep ... you got it !

 

You are now going to treat me as I want to be treated

 

(That is ... if you ARE ignoring me from now on ... you aren't reading this right now, are you ? )

Edited October 12, 2014 by Nungali