Daoist Diet - Meal Suggestions?

[mYTHmAKER]

interesting. For taste though, I like to unwrap it, rub on some butter and herbs, rewrap the husk then throw it on the barbie or any really high heat, let it sit and sear, turn it. When its open its caramelized as well as steamed. Its very good without the butter rub, but even better with it.

if the corn is sweet it will remain so - i find cooking too long it loses sweetness

[David Lloyd]

This is going to sound surprising to most of the people on this site, but, Daoists should "abstain from grain" foremost. They should eat what would naturally present itself during each season, including seasonal meats & organ meats, vegetables, fruits and of course appropriately used herbal medicines for each season.

 

Many ancient texts talk about this, not just for fasting but actually avoiding grains ... modern research supports this view given all of the anti-nutrients in brown rice and wheat.

 

The concept of the Tao and the behaviors of the "people of ancient times" may well be our hunter-gatherer past pre-dating agriculture.

 

Most classical texts support this view.

 

Oh and clearly ... AVOID ALL PACKAGED FOOD! It's made of junk ... even when it's labeled "healthy".

[Gerard]

Well, I'm back on Abstaining From Grains (which is close to, but not as strict as, the paleo a la Nora Gedgaudas I did before), so everything I said about corn is for those who eat it -- or for me if I eat it again.

 

 

Why is that? Abstaining from meat, probably...but brown rice, rye, spelt, barley, steel-cut oats etc. so nutritious and easy to digest. Personally, I wouldn't recommend it...unless you get involved in bigu following intensive meditation practice...and then again you'd be abstaining from anything, even water.

[Silent Answers]

The grain thing is a topic in itself. Probably already is, somewhere on here. Although I doubt there's a conclusion.

[Taomeow]

Why is that? Abstaining from meat, probably...but brown rice, rye, spelt, barley, steel-cut oats etc. so nutritious and easy to digest. Personally, I wouldn't recommend it...unless you get involved in bigu following intensive meditation practice...and then again you'd be abstaining from anything, even water.

 

Abstaining from meat is something I would do for a while at a specific stage of cultivation, when phenomena arise that require the temporary modification, as taught by my taoist teacher. Usually for a week or so. At this time, you also avoid all contact with blood not related to meat -- stay away from hospitals, handle cutlery carefully, etc.. We were even taught not to eat a specific vegetable that looks and tastes like meat during this time, but it only grows in certain parts of China, and most people didn't even know what it is, with the exception of the Chinese from those parts, so that's a non-issue. The "generic" Chinese style of eating meat in moderation is indicated at other times. The teacher was vegetarian when he lived away from society and was engaged in intense 24/7 cultivation and had access to many herbs, roots, and fungi a city dweller who would attempt abstaining from what's available here and now has not the foggiest about; he eats meat in moderate amounts when living "in the world," and expects his students to be as flexible and adaptable to the here-now of their circumstances. There's many reasons why you can't apply the same rules to diametrically opposite lifestyles, perhaps for another thread.

 

"Bigu" was reinterpreted to mean "fasting" later in the day, under the influence of other schools, but the original meaning was and for some taoists still is, "abstaining from grains," meaning "grains," not "food." The theory goes (and modern science has confirmed it in its own terms far as I'm concerned, though megagiant agricultural corporations won't let it make it too widely known) that there's Three Monsters or Three Worms that grow in the human body-mind-spirit when grains are consumed, who feed off the grains you eat. These monsters are a big obstacle to cultivation progress, so in certain schools of taoism, it is undertaken to starve them by abstaining from grains.

 

The theory further goes that they blunt your senses and sensibilities, trigger faulty judgement, cloud your mind, obscure your spirit, and cause you to do things that are stupid, wrong, or even evil. Not stopping there, they then report to the gods on your wrongdoings, smearing your reputation in the celestial realm and causing you to "lose face."

 

On a more mundane plane, they cause most chronic degenerative disease in all civilizations that were railroaded into grain agriculture. In my world they are the devil. The best thing that can be said about them is that they are easy to use as filler material when quality food is scarce, expensive, or made unavailable by unjust distribution practices of an unjust society. And they are highly addictive so people often enjoy the same high from them as they do from drugs (in fact they do work as drugs, by damaging the intestinal lining which is protectively set up to release endorphins, internal painkillers, opiates, and even LSD-like substances as a temporary defense -- you would be in constant pain from eating these goodies otherwise... as I was when I was a child, every piece of bread and every forkful of pasta meant stomachache after the dinner. This got blunted by age 13 and was replaced by the usual addiction -- but in most people this happens much earlier. Three months of "infant colic" (if mom eats grains, the stuff will be in breast milk, to say nothing of the formula) and bingo... addicted and comfortably numb.

[Brian]

You constantly educate me, Taomeow. Thank you!

[Taomeow]

It was an accident. But thank you too, Brian.

[Gerard]

These monsters are a big obstacle to cultivation progress, so in certain schools of taoism, it is undertaken to starve them by abstaining from grains.

 

The theory further goes that they blunt your senses and sensibilities, trigger faulty judgement, cloud your mind, obscure your spirit, and cause you to do things that are stupid, wrong, or even evil. Not stopping there, they then report to the gods on your wrongdoings, smearing your reputation in the celestial realm and causing you to "lose face."

 

 

Taoist theory after all. I wouldn't worry too much about those 'worms.' These, on the other hand, are the ones that one should really put attention to. They aren't really worms but mental factors deeply ingrained in our consciousness and are difficult to remove, unfortunately.

[Andrei]

That is the whole point, the worms create the fetters. But as a side note I can't understnad how can someone be reborn without a self that was just abandoned? Just using straight logic....how?

[Gerard]

Haha...I'd say the fetters create the worms.

 

Honestly mind creates reality...I wouldn't worry too much about grain-induced worms, they are just vegetarian. :DD

 

There are far worse worms inhabiting our livers and let me tell you the causes:

 

1. Negative thinking

2. Stress

3. Alcohol and drug consumption, including Western medication.

4. Poor diet

5. Excessive sex and watching pornography

6. Excessive meat consumption

7. Junk food

8. Eating after noon, but more so eating after bladder becomes active: 3pm.

9. Eating on the go and too fast. Not chewing food properly/not eating mindfully.

10. Eating incorrect foods according to your year of birth.

11. Mixing wrong foods.

12. Drinking while eating. Hot Chinese/Japanese teas are OK.

 

These things weaken the liver leaving it open to host astral parasites of various forms and types including snake-like type with long fangs.

 

I have to thank the powerful and cleansing effect of circle walking for many cycles and the cleansing effect of the Mother Palms. Those parasites came out dead after practice. It was very invigorating. Like sick wood that attracts worms and beetles and other wood eating insects, the same happens to a human liver. Ghosts will also bother those with sick livers.

 

 

[BaguaKicksAss]

I have talked about the bigu diet and abstaining from grains a few times on the forums. However this is when I was really new to the forums, and I was given a lot of hell and put down for using these methods and terms how I was taught by my teacher 8 years ago, instead of how some other posters thought they should be used. So I don't really talk about it on here now anymore (accept the odd recipe suggestions thread).I

 

If one is really curious, a search might find those olds posts.

 

I most definitely feel better when not eating grains. Since I'm celiac, I mean even rice and corn as grains making a difference. Stop eating grains, and there goes the random days of brain fog . Also researching more into the various writings on bigu can lead to some interesting medicines to go along with it.

 

Odd about folks not beleiving in the worms and etc., but hey there are folks who don't even beleive in qi.

[eye_of_the_storm]

Gluten and Neurological Diseases (+ Other)

http://thetaobums.com/topic/28443-gluten-and-neurological-diseases-other/page-2

Edited November 16, 2014 by eye_of_the_storm

[Taomeow]

Haha...I'd say the fetters create the worms. Honestly mind creates reality...I wouldn't worry too much about grain-induced worms, they are just vegetarian. :DD There are far worse worms inhabiting our livers and let me tell you the causes: 1. Negative thinking 2. Stress 3. Alcohol and drug consumption, including Western medication. 4. Poor diet 5. Excessive sex and watching pornography 6. Excessive meat consumption 7. Junk food 8. Eating after noon, but more so eating after bladder becomes active: 3pm. 9. Eating on the go and too fast. Not chewing food properly/not eating mindfully. 10. Eating incorrect foods according to your year of birth. 11. Mixing wrong foods. 12. Drinking while eating. Hot Chinese/Japanese teas are OK. These things weaken the liver leaving it open to host astral parasites of various forms and types including snake-like type with long fangs. I have to thank the powerful and cleansing effect of circle walking for many cycles and the cleansing effect of the Mother Palms. Those parasites came out dead after practice. It was very invigorating. Like sick wood that attracts worms and beetles and other wood eating insects, the same happens to a human liver. Ghosts will also bother those with sick livers.

 

So, if "mind creates reality," why do you think reality created by your mind is more reliable than reality created by mine?...

 

Also -- "taoist theory after all" (per your previous post) is my practice, and in taoism as I know it, the mind co-creates reality. Meaning, reality has quite a bit of autonomy from what you think about it. I remember a story (told by Charlotte Gerson) of a cancer patient who was advised to take niacin without having been informed of the niacin flush. She took it on an empty stomach, experienced the flush, and was convinced on the spot that she was experiencing instant healing directly from god. Unfortunately, even though her mind created this reality, it had no effect on the body.

 

Now point by point --

 

1. Negative thinking -- creating the concept and putting it in circulation was a psy-op by the government, executed through its paid agents (you'd be deeply shocked I'm sure if I named some of the names) targeting realistic thinking and seeking to desavouer legitimate "negative" observations of abuses, rightful concerns, and ultimately squash the natural human impulse to do something about it.

2. Stress -- yes, that is very damaging, but quite a bit of it comes from the autonomous rather than your-mind-created reality. Mental strategies to reduce it are always welcome -- not at the expense of throwing the body to the wolves though, the mind sometimes does that in order to avoid stress (this is known as wishful thinking), and that's where it goes wrong.

3. Alcohol in moderation is not a problem for most people and quite beneficial for many (since it helps with stress, also lengthens telomeres and prolongs life when used by individuals who don't have contraindications. Drugs and Western medications I would agree with --provided plants (like coffee, e.g.) are not included in the category of "drugs" (government/corporate games with semantics all over again.)

4. Poor diet -- yes. What's poor diet though? What you described earlier as an excellent diet, all those grains, would kill several people I know, including family members. And what I see as excellent diet you may see as "poor." So, one would have to figure out what a poor diet is before avoiding it, right? I believe I'm doing this all the time, never stopped learning -- nutrition is really a fascination of mine, and it is huge, bigger than any other area of study one could get interested in.

5. Excessive sex and watching pornography -- I would say "low quality sex" (what's excessive?..) -- yes, that is damaging in any doses. I've never watched any pornography in my life, nor intend to -- but I'm assuming it must be damaging, though taoists who described the Three Grain Monsters never saw any pornography and were really talking about grains, not something else.

6. Excessive meat consumption -- once "excessive" is adequately defined, I would agree. My paleo guru does provide such definition. Believe it or not, proteins are transformed by the body into carbohydrates if consumed excessively. I'm not kidding. So, portions of meat in this country, which tend to be excessive, are excessive precisely because people who eat so much meat are addicted to carbs, and are getting their fix both externally from carbs proper and internally from metabolic transformations of excessive protein. On the paleo regimen you don't overeat meat -- your every portion is very moderate, and your meals are in general smaller because in the absence of the carb addiction you don't experience false hunger. Carbs make people into gluttons, but on a normal diet we aren't that.

7. Junk food -- agreed, junk is bad. And made of wheat, soy, corn and corn syrup. Hello monsters.

8. I don't even know how to address this. No culture or tribe has ever practiced what you suggest, so I've no frame of reference for where this comes from. A monastery perhaps? But they do everything differently -- e.g. get up and start the day at 3 a.m, go to bed with sunset (currently that would mean 5 pm and counting down.) If you do too, then yes. If not, I don't think so...

9. Agreed.

10. You mean your year, month, day, hour of birth. If you only go by the year, it's i/8th of the picture -- hardly accurate. Yes, bazi compliant eating is superior, but alas, mostly unknown to the population. I do a dietary reading/recommendations whenever I do bazi.

OK, ten is enough.

[Gerard]

Hi, let me reply another time as I replied to another thread before and this is all just too tiring, I mean the typing and computer use.

[CloudHands]

LOL about meat.

 

Meat eating is killing the whole humanity + earth.

 

Meat eating is heavily related to cardiac-vascular deceases and cancers so deceases which actually kill people in the west.

 

A better question is what meat ? Do you know what's mordern animal husbandry ? I doubt anything good can result from this...

Guys we are on 2014 not in it's better to eat anything that has been cultivated properly...

 

Before checking on 2000+ years ago recipes please face facts and remember we have never lived that long.

[Taomeow]

Hi, let me reply another time as I replied to another thread before and this is all just too tiring, I mean the typing and computer use.

 

That's fine, I know you long enough to know that we can talk but we can't change each other's reality... er... mind.

 

I second computer work as a tiring and not very healthy pastime in the grand scheme of things -- but typing as such is a breeze on my diet, a relaxed 60 words per minute (I can go as high as 80 in a hurry) due to no stiffness in the joints being brought about by grains consumption. (Incidentally, the Snake Creeping Down move in taiji is a good indicator of where one's diet is going -- I can do it with utmost ease on Abstaining From Grains, but I can't do it on grains.)

Edited November 16, 2014 by Taomeow

[CloudHands]

That's fine, I know you long enough to know that we can talk but we can't change each other's reality... er... mind.

 

I second computer work as a tiring and not very healthy pastime in the grand scheme of things -- but typing as such is a breeze on my diet, a relaxed 60 words per minute (I can go as high as 80 in a hurry) due to no stiffness in the joints being brought about by grains consumption. (Incidentally, the Snake Creeping Down move in taiji is a good indicator of where one's diet is going -- I can do it with utmost ease on Abstaining From Grains, but I can't do it on grains.)

 

What you said picked up my interest as the first rule I know about nutrition is that one must associate cereal + legume (fabaceae) to obtain complete proteins and (yes) that's a worldwide rule. India is one of the most spiritual culture and is the biggest veg country in the world.

 

Have you thought that you (and members of your family) may suffer a particular intolerance.

 

Can you be more precise about grains : which grains ? and a more detailed explanation of the process. Some serious links would be a plus.

[Cookie Monster]

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Edited May 5, 2021 by Ocean Form

[Gerard]

Taomeow,

 

I have no problems with grains as I wouldn't be able to train Bagua if I had to remove brown rice, steel-cut oats, barley, spelt and rye from my diet. No way, train like a warrior eat like a warrior. I eat good solid, balanced and nutritious meals suited to my 5E type (Fire Horse). Other practitioners with a different 5E makeup like yourself and BKA feel that grains are draining, so be it remove them and happy diet and practice. Each to their own, dieting is something that one needs to fine-tune for a considerable amount of time. Don't just walk in a supermarket and randomly buy food...you gonna hurt yourself. This is how crazy our world has become.

 

Back to the points:

 

1. Negative thinking as in: I don't like this, I don't like you, I don't. Hate this, This can't be good...in other words, critical thinking using the ego as the force behind it. NO GOOD. The mind of a child or a newborn is what the good old Taoist will cheer and look for. Compare these two you'll see what I mean:

 

 

I see trees of green...I see skies of blue. Taoist thinking.

 

(I just googled for an example )

 

'Cause I fucking hate you, you're such a liar..Not very Taoist.

 

3. Alcohol harms the Hun, 'spirit' of the Wood unless used as a rice wine in TCM formulas. I don't touch this stuff with a 10m pole. I have had experience with it in my late teenage years and early adulthood and God I regret every single moment of having taken that poison. My liver harboured several nasty worms (not the ones related to grains but a worse type) and cockroach type of parasites that were meticulously removed by long periods of circle walking, many repetitions per side, up to 120. They came out viciously and I had to remove them using various dissolving visualisations. Interestingly this happened in 2012, water dragon year, very cleasing. Love the wisdom and high-order thinking of this animal plus the cleasing power of water. 2013 was also a good year, water snake, very purifying as well. Wise snake searching deep beneath the earth.

 

8. Not eating after noon. Bagua work has regenerated my body as well as asked me to eat during the times digestion is active: 7-9 (stomach) and 9-11 (spleen). One hour after and one hour before those peak times is good enough too. Eating after 3pm and espcially after time is just disaster. Food doesn't get digested and when the GB becomes active at 11pm it starts burning because of the unprocessed food sitting in the cauldron (stomach) with spleen being the digestive fire. That heat rises to the head and as a result poor sleep, insomnia and nightmares or excessive dreaming will follow (there are other causes for this nothing is as simple as it seems in the 5 organ network). I have found that I function better with my second and last meal being before noon and my first around 6-7 am. Sometimes I eat dry fruit and a piece of fruit around 1:30 when I have a busy day...but as I train Bagua in the evening that food doesn't sit in the cauldron for too long.

 

Eating at night is just plain crazy. The rules of Buddhist meditation centres in Thailand is no eating after noon. One example here (The five training precepts). They don't tell you why...but as you know no Buddhist will ever talk about yang-yin and the 5E, they simply disregard it. When I attended a Vipassana retreat in 2008 I couldn't figure out the rule, it didn't make any sense to me, so I suffered a lot, it was a hell of a retreat, again Buddhist lack of common sense, people living in modern times with a 2,500 year mentality, they have failed to understand the level of toxicity of modern times, yet they still live in the past. It's just irresponsible and immature.

 

In 2013, the year I stopped eating after noon, I understood clearly why. TCM wisdom and Baguazhang's healing power gave me that wisdom.

 

10. Your animal is more than good enough as it will give you a more than enough perspective of your 5E make-up. I was born in 1966, fire horse. So careful with foods that overstimulate the liver, making sure the earth component is strengthened due to liver being overactive which weakens the spleen; and also people born in fire years, like fire horse and fire dragon, need to address a deficient kidney due to 1966 (and 1976) being a year in which yang is at its highest peak, while yin/water is at its lowest peak. I am silly for living in the southern hemisphere and especially in a hot country like Australia...but it won't be too long before I leave, my kidney is begging me to as it can't cope with liver's hyperactivity. Excessive Wood energy saps Kidney Qi and as a result it shortens one's lifespan. Not very smart let alone Taoist.

 

 

Note: If anyone are unsure about how to eat the Taoist way, the following Taoist and TCM practitioner has designed a diet program tailored to one's 5E makeup as well as other considerations. He will send you a comprehensive document outlining your entire diet program. I never ordered but I know the man and his TCM and Taoist knowledge is significant. A very serious and dedicated practitioner with over 35 years of practice. I know him from an online TCM forum and I used to correspond with him in 2004.

[BaguaKicksAss]

Interesting is that I was doing the grain free diet when I was training for and running marathons, as well as an up the mountain race. If there is anything that needs carbs to accomplish, it is running, especially running which lasts 3 hours at a time. In the version I was given though, potatoes are good . I lasted a year no problem with that grain free diet and the training. (I had to stop eventually due to top of foot pain, damn genetics).

 

PS I'm eating a gluten free cookie as I type this . I've been slacking lately lol.

[Andrei]

Hey Gerard you could come here in Vancouver, I've never seen a greener and rainier country as British Columbia. But I bet with you, as soon as you land here you'll become a meat eater, at least fish such as salmon and halibut and poultry or turkey. These are the staple foods around here, and for a good reason. The East Indians that live here are eating chicken butter, they cook everything with ghee. I've seen Sikhs buying from the stores like 10 jugs of 4 gallons each of cow milk at a time. I wonder what they do with so much milk, my suspicion is that they make butter at home and from butter they produce ghee. I myself make my own ghee but from butter bought from the stores. So yep not everybody or everywhere is vegetarian. As I said before, Australia is not Canada as Thailand is not Siberia. Each has its own rules. Too bad people that claim their highest spiritual practice is compassion are not capable of that compassion unless they walk in other's people shoes. I mean really you have to walk in others shoes to understand their choices, whatever they may be. No wonder people reincarnates in infinite lifetimes.

[BaguaKicksAss]

I really like how many paths of tibetan bhuddhism are just fine with meat eating .

 

PS Andrei, you must have missed all the raw food eating hippies on the "Drive" lolololol

[CloudHands]

I really like how many paths of tibetan bhuddhism are just fine with meat eating .

 

PS Andrei, you must have missed all the raw food eating hippies on the "Drive" lolololol

 

And many aren't so what ?

 

I'm talking putting your head out of your tao/buddha books and look at a materialistic reality and impact of personal actions. To me it's just common sense, in my mind meat eating is heavily linked to destruction, maybe you just lack of informations (it's possible after all... )

And btw I'm not veg I tend to be something more flexible, this said i don't even eat meat once a weak.

 

It much more interesting when we disagree, I regret i'm not able (not enough time) to construction a serious argument...

 

Have a nice evening ! I send thou love

[BaguaKicksAss]

And many aren't so what ?

 

I'm talking putting your head out of your tao/buddha books and look at a materialistic reality and impact of personal actions. To me it's just common sense, in my mind meat eating is heavily linked to destruction, maybe you just lack of informations (it's possible after all... )

And btw I'm not veg I tend to be something more flexible, this said i don't even eat meat once a weak.

 

It much more interesting when we disagree, I regret i'm not able (not enough time) to construction a serious argument...

 

Have a nice evening ! I send thou love

 

Books? Since when? I personally don't find books very useful for most teachings. You make a lot of assumptions, just to try to prove your personal theories.

 

To me being alive is common sense. I cannot digest vegetables (aside from carrots and peas); am allergic to most things vegans use to make stuff.

 

There is no reason that buying meat which is grass fed, from a local farm (via my butcher), is wrecking the rest of the world. It's a nice thing for vegans to say, but I personally think vegans have their heads in the books/media.

 

How about just living your life and stop trying to judge and change others? That would be quite refreshing.

[Seeker of Wisdom]

...To me it's just common sense, in my mind meat eating is heavily linked to destruction...

Who made your phone? How much were they paid? What were the working conditions like? Unless we take ridiculous measures, we will to some extent financially support immoral industries.

 

Your response is to not financially support the meat industry. My response is to decide that since I provide 0.[many noughts]% of these industry's profits, I just won't worry about it, because it's only worth me bothering about things I can affect.

Edited November 17, 2014 by Seeker of Wisdom