Daoist Diet - Meal Suggestions?

[vonkrankenhaus]

Re:

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"I mean more refined chi...not as dense so the body becomes more heavenly?"

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Yes, now I understand what you are referring to.

 

This level of practice/experience is actually my own focus of the last 30 years (that after 10 years of conventional training). I have never written about it. Never discussed it outside of my family. It just hasn't seemed applicable to the concerns of any people I see in daily life.

 

Is there someone living who is teaching these things now? It would be impossible to detail everything I have gone through in my own learning, but I actually cannot imagine any modern person having the access to the information and the type of "lifestyle" that could not only result from this, but also be a requisite to progress at an early enough stage.

 

I will say that there is a continuum in understanding physical and spiritual, and that without mastering as much as possible the selection, preparation, and eating of physical "food" (IE: the overall environment - the junction of Heaven & Earth we inhabit as human beings), it is difficult if not impossible (let's say "unlikely") to truly progress towards the subject you wrote about. Stories of Sennin in Japan and achieved Taoist masters of China (but not limited to these) eating pine needles and other items, and many of them not considered as food of mankind, point more-or-less directly at what I mean.

 

These things are not part of the current fake culture delusion living at all.

 

I will certainly read more backlogged posts here if things like that are a common subject now. I had no idea. Maybe we can have some interesting online discussion of this.

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[eye_of_the_storm]

Yeh such discussion is outside the realm of many even on a Taoist forum...

It can't be imagined/ felt by them

I don't know of anyone teaching it.

My own is based on intuition + finding texts like the above and experimenting/experience

I was looking for some confirmation in that 10'000 suns thread, in that I talk about Greek, Celtic and Norse examples that seem to indicate similar to the Japanese + Chinese accounts.

An example

Iliad V. 364–382[2]

Blood follow'd, but immortal; ichor pure,
Such as the blest inhabitants of heav'n
May bleed, nectareous; for the Gods eat not
Man's food, nor slake as he with sable wine
Their thirst, thence bloodless and from death exempt. †

[vonkrankenhaus]

Re:

"experimenting/experience"

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I would be interested to know what kind of experiments you have done, and the kinds of experiences you have had that are related to this.

 

I do see that texts like the Illiad & Odyssey (and many many others) contain an aspect of allegorical depiction of "heavenly" ("outer space") time cycles and (physical) astronomy/astrology - which is often thought to be or contain allusions to "internal alchemy". This may not be true for many texts.

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[eye_of_the_storm]

fasting/ fresh fruit + distilled water

removing all inorganic material from the body

4ish liters of distilled water a day ... days of only one fruit ...mangoes

a week of mangoes and oranges + distilled water = tangible connection to the environment... feeling very light, mild bliss throughout.... clarity

If continued over 6 months... a year or 2 ... + over coming self limitation/ what one thinks is possible... who knows... that is the plan for 2015.

people for one question being able to live on mangoes for a week...and so on...

many say they lack the discipline, I find it more than enjoyable though

The accounts of the Immortals I have read is 90% diet related and that diet becoming lighter and lighter... and so the body also becomes lighter and lighter... energetics

If people changed their diet it might save them 20 odd years of meditation or advance it 10x

people meditating for years to find peace... but are at constant war with their own bodies... love your body, nourish your cells and it will love you back

25 years of age, work in progress

http://thetaobums.com/topic/36842-10000-suns/

What are you findings?

Edited December 11, 2014 by eye_of_the_storm

[vonkrankenhaus]

Re:

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"The accounts of the Immortals I have read is 90% diet related and that diet becoming lighter and lighter... and so the body also becomes lighter and lighter... energetics

If people changed their diet it might save them 20 odd years of meditation or advance it 10x"

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This is all basically correct. But it's not actually a process of becoming "lighter" (maybe except for many very modern people).

 

One problem is that perhaps people might think they will enact these severe restrictions when their immediate situation and past are that they have been eating a tremendous lot of completely haphazard stuff - the modern "scientific" and "nutritional" diet as presented via advertising, showbiz, politics and consumerism. None of these things just listed is based on achieving anything we are discussing.

 

That kind of transition is,,, ridiculous. And dangerous.

 

Better to spend some years (and years) (and years) studying and applying towards understanding at the most basic and clear levels what "food" really is. This initial practice will show the way forward into what we are discussing.

 

There seems to be a huge gap in meditation & cultivation practices regarding "food" and "diet" that is not entirely missing from TCM. But truly, there is more to this than I have seen in the available materials, on any subject, of which I am aware.

 

I will try to write a more complete post describing what I am referring to - might take me a day or two - and I will post it.

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[vonkrankenhaus]

Here I present some basic ideas to keep the discussion going. It would take a huge post to even do an overview here, so I try in little semi-connected chunks right now - and also, opinions, and even frank opposition, from anyone are welcome:

First off, it seems obvious that people looking for "super-human" abilities should first master human abilities. There is no ability that you are going to exhibit that is not a human ability, but with intelligence, good sense, and extensive gongfu, some of these can actually be fairly "super".

Without a good basis and skill as a human being first, such as the achievement of whatever health and happiness you need and desire, then one would have no platform from which to develop much of anything beyond that.

The view into what is possible comes best from the further-along viewpoint of achievement, and not so much from stories and legends and promises coming from something or someone else. Those tales rarely gel beyond the barstools where they were born.

In terms of vibrational spectrum - do you want to recieve and send at those vibrational levels, or do you want to exist at those vibrational levels?

Existing at them is like trying to turn your radio into a radio wave.

Our functions and senses differentiate as we grow. And in evolution they did. More differentiation means more, and more refined, interaction with the environment - like the difference between a cloven hoof and a human hand. Like the way a baby's gross motor movements later become ballet dancing.

(BTW - babies exhibit many many amazing "skills" - like intuitive qigong, intuitive shiatsu, and so forth - watch them any chance you get. And the learning inherent in the "householder" stage of life, if one is lucky enough to have that, provides a massive base of experiences for later taking up cultivation practices and eventually graduating from human issues.)

You don't want to become the vibrations - that will happen to all of us soon enough quite naturally. You want to receive and send them. You want your perception and expression to differentiate further to be able to sense in these realms of finer (higher frequency) vibrational phenomena.

As yin attracts yang and yang attracts yin - how would you attract, for example, yin vibration? Not by becoming yin.

So-called "dietary" practice is like the steering wheel of the car you're driving in your particular manifestation of the environment. Your "larger self" is the larger overall environment that manifested you, as you.

Here I show one small key to understanding what this means: The governing and conception vessels are actually connected, in a way. The place where they "connect" is the entire alimentary tract. These two vessels form a loop, like a figure-eight. Otherwise, in the mouth, there is the uvula coming part-way down, and the tongue which we can put up. Notice that when you chew food you touch the roof of the mouth with the tongue intermittently. This transfers chi from the newly broken-up food (environment) to the brain, which then prepares the system via essence (hormones, digestive juice functions, etc) according to this information (chi). The importance of saliva and chewing to basic human living, not to mention further internal cultivation, should be understood as completely as possible.

This "connection" of the governing & conception vessels is a remnant of our initial growth in the womb, which is a miniature of the evolution of humanity. At the stage of simpler water-based development the mouth is the center of the body - think of an eel, for instance. So the vessels come in at the mouth and go down through the alimentary tract. Like "food" does.

In an apple, for example, the energy field that is producing the apple comes in at the stem, goes down through the core, and comes out the bottom and up the sides again, making a loop when it goes back in on itself into the top again. Like the earth's electromagnetic field. This energy body is producing the physical body structure. The energy body comes from spirit.

Like all phenomena, our "use" of vibration has polarity - we use dense physical vibration and also non-dense non-physical vibration. Our bodies can be seen as divided, front and back, and each is more geared for one - the expanded front dealing in the compacted physical environment ("food") and the hard back dealing more with vibration (expansive). These are distributed in the organs, or, we should say, as the organs.

So "food" and "diet" is a much bigger thing than people are currently understanding. Discussing further could go after questions on this part, because these are very basic ideas as groundwork.

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[eye_of_the_storm]

~ radio into a radio wave... ~ I'd say the radio is already a type of wave

the organic I guess would have greater potentials

Edited December 12, 2014 by eye_of_the_storm

[vonkrankenhaus]

Re:

 

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"I'd say the radio is already a type of wave"

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Yes, like everything, the radio is compacted energy.

 

But what I mean is that the radio is used to receive/send waves. How does a radio work? In the simplest radio, a crystal is what is doing the work. The (compacted) crystal is at polarity with the waves (expansive). This is just yin/yang basic concept.

 

We would not increase the radio's efficiency with waves if we, for example, vaporise the radio. That will end the polarity, and end radio reception/transmission.

 

By taking the environment intelligently ("diet"), we can choose what we want to receive/send - more physical or more spirit. We can choose our structure and experience. Without this freedom, how will true cultivation proceed? In fact, what would it even be?

 

So, technique -- Hammering and contorting the physical body, the after-effect, into various configurations, is like trying to remove from your home a bunch of furniture delivered by accident - when the additional step of asking the delivery people if they have the correct address first had been ignored as an option.

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[eye_of_the_storm]

Sounds about right.

So I guess this is how some would be able to... materialize and dematerialize at will?

[vonkrankenhaus]

Re:

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materialize and dematerialize at will?

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Well,,, be careful. I am tossing you some gems, but that is maybe just a rock you are asking about.

 

The most accomodating and generous way to look at that is to admit, yes, something like the direction of that is possible, but I am writing about much more and much better than that in terms of development.

 

Maybe more like (but still not really accurate): Live and die at will. Much bigger issue. Much more important.

 

Or even: Know what "will" is. Even bigger.

 

So, these I start to describe are the "ways of coming and going" in the largest possible meaning.

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[Taomeow]

 

 

 

In an apple, for example, the energy field that is producing the apple comes in at the stem, goes down through the core, and comes out the bottom and up the sides again, making a loop when it goes back in on itself into the top again. Like the earth's electromagnetic field. This energy body is producing the physical body structure. The energy body comes from spirit.

 

(...)

 

So "food" and "diet" is a much bigger thing than people are currently understanding. Discussing further could go after questions on this part, because these are very basic ideas as groundwork.

 

-VonKrankenhaus

Here's some more food for thought:

 

apple has rich mythology around and inside it... which seems to be based on intimate knowledge of the energies of the world by the ancients. It is primarily associated with the Babylonian goddess Ishtar and her Roman parallel, Venus, and the symbol for both was the five-pointed star, or pentagram. Look here:

 

[eye_of_the_storm]

Re:

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materialize and dematerialize at will?

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Well,,, be careful. I am tossing you some gems, but that is maybe just a rock you are asking about.

 

The most accomodating and generous way to look at that is to admit, yes, something like the direction of that is possible, but I am writing about much more and much better than that in terms of development.

 

Maybe more like (but still not really accurate): Live and die at will. Much bigger issue. Much more important.

 

Or even: Know what "will" is. Even bigger.

 

So, these I start to describe are the "ways of coming and going" in the largest possible meaning.

 

-VonKrankenhaus

 

You can't deny it and then say "yes something like that is possible"... I'd say if you have the ability to de and re materialize you'd probably have control over your life and death...know what will is etc

 

To achieve such I think you would need a good understanding of will + thought

 

I agree with most everything else you have said

Edited December 16, 2014 by eye_of_the_storm

[vonkrankenhaus]

Re:

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"You can't deny it and then say "yes something like that is possible"..."

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Well, what I actually wrote was: "The most accomodating and generous way to look at that is to admit, yes, something like the direction of that is possible, but I am writing about much more and much better than that in terms of development."

 

What I mean is that people want to know how to materialize and de-materialize, and in fact they are doing just that right now, both. Over the span of their lives and at every moment. Without understanding that and intelligently participating in it, then this additional idea of physically "appearing" and "disappearing" is completely out of reach. I write "additional" because it is just a subset, a "particle" or "speck" of their overall "coming and going".

 

So, to appear and disappear - where did you first appear from at all, and how? Where are you "disappearing to?

 

And if you are interested in "bi-location", then that means you first understand being fully in one location.

 

This is not logic game or semantics. It's the beginning of the path towards these things being discussed by us now.

 

We can discuss further as far as anyone would like to see.

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[eye_of_the_storm]

I see, well I can only guess

So, to appear and disappear - where did you first appear from at all, and how? Where are you "disappearing to?

I am consciousness eternal, I am not disappearing I am changing my perspective. I am exploring, experiencing, learning.

And if you are interested in "bi-location", then that means you first understand being fully in one location.

I would have to encompass my entire self as an image (the body being a manifestation of consciousness)? From there, no limitations.

I prefer precision/ clarity rather than contradictions - if I am to make such I would like for them to be highlighted so I can amend/ refine my reasoning. Truth should be/is simple, I think.

[vonkrankenhaus]

Re:

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"I am consciousness eternal, I am not disappearing I am changing my perspective. I am exploring, experiencing, learning."

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So, You are "The Infinite One". I agree.

 

Or, are you a manifestation, among manifestations, of The Infinite One?

 

You must be both.

 

So you are going from Infinite to Finite, and going from Finite to Infinite.

 

You "physicalize" and "spiritualize". You "appear" and "disappear".

 

God made Man in his own image, isn't that what they say? If so, then this could be what they mean by it.

 

And "as above, so below".

 

So what is more is to discuss the way of this "coming and going".

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[eye_of_the_storm]

Yes the way haha (?)

Methods of

Are we all Infinities Ones?

Rather than The Infinite One... I suppose The Infinite One would be the unified field/ canvas in which the Infinite Ones paint/ create?

[vonkrankenhaus]

Re:

Here's some more food for thought:

 

apple has rich mythology around and inside it... which seems to be based on intimate knowledge of the energies of the world by the ancients. It is primarily associated with the Babylonian goddess Ishtar and her Roman parallel, Venus, and the symbol for both was the five-pointed star, or pentagram. Look here:

 

5-pointed star, pentagram, 8 orbits - these patterns & structures and numbers are also seen in qigong theory 5 phases and 8 vessels, so also in the general ways of materialization (physicalization) and de-materialization ("spiritualization") and especially of change amongst the "Phenomenal World".

 

Of course, there is also the interesting relation of Venus and Earth from a variety of perspectives, including the orbital coincidences depicted.

 

Nice images.

 

-VonKrankenhaus