What is the force that keeps us unconscious ?

[Jetsun]

In my own life I keep coming up against a force which it seems tries to keep me unconscious, to block growth. Some people call it evil, some the devil, some the force of Mara, but what is it really? It actively tries to do all it can to shun the light of awareness and consciousness and can be very cunning and subtle in controlling and manipulating.

 

It is a force inside of each of us and in society at large and sometimes it even goes to the extreme to actively destroy those who try to bring the light of consciousness to the masses. There are famous examples of people being killed by this force such as Jesus, but there may well be many others such as Socrates, Osho, Anthony De Mello, maybe even people like John Lennon and probably many others. It may even be dangerous to become conscious, at least publicly because as it can't stand the light in ourselves it can't bare it in others either so will try to shut it out wherever and however it can.

 

I see how it could turn some people into paranoid conspiracy fanatics, but I think that is just another one of its tricks to blame the Illuminati or aliens keeps you from really getting to the heart of it. Castaneda alluded to it being some sort of entity called the fliers or something, but that could be a concept used within a teaching rather than something more based in reality.

 

So what is it? why does it exist?

[i am]

Well...I think at one very basic level, for the individual, it's simply the filter of awareness which was/is necessary to allow people to focus on what they need to survive.

 

If you're walking around completely opened up and aware of the universe, you aren't really hunting or foraging for food...I think we have a built-in filter which allows us to focus on what's important for survival.

 

Once those needs are met...the work to break open that filter is up to you.

 

As far as society...small minded people are afraid of what's new and unknown. Witch hunts, assassinations etc. Fear the unknown...

 

That's probably just a very simplified, one-level look at it.

[Jetsun]

"It" is not just one thing. "It" is a myriad of denser energies. Like a web, the energy network is woven. Untangling this web takes time. And no-time.

 

"Work"-ing on your positive spiritual development, over time, the dense energy network will lighten/release. This all depends on what path you're on, and where you are on that path.

 

Your post reminds me of the early days of my qigong. And my budding awareness of this "force" of which you speak.

 

Best to you.

 

Interesting, do you have any sense of what the purpose of this web of denser energies is for? seeing the effect it can have it is hard not to view it as malevolent at the moment.

 

It was most illuminated to me during a silent retreat I went on, any time I sat near the master I would become really uncomfortable to the point of anxiety and could only gain relief by sitting quite far away. Something the master said about the Bible seemed to hit a chord somehow with what I was experiencing, he made the point how the demons in the Bible would flee from Jesus whenever in his presence yet in the whole story it was only the demons who immediately knew who Jesus was, everyone else including his main disciples took time or never knew at all, yet the demons knew immediately who he was. I'm not sure exactly why this has come to mind but I feel it may be relevant somehow.

 

edit: I see you answered my question RV thanks

Edited October 9, 2014 by Jetsun

[9th]

 

"There is an Eastern tale which speaks about a very rich magician who had a great many sheep. But at the same time this magician was very mean. He did not want to hire shepherds, nor did he want to erect a fence about the pasture where his sheep were grazing. The sheep consequently often wandered into the forest, fell into ravines, and so on, and above all they ran away, for they knew that the magician wanted their flesh and skins and this they did not like.

 

"At last the magician found a remedy. He hypnotized his sheep and suggested to them first of all that they were immortal and that no harm was being done to them when they were skinned, and that, on the contrary, it would be very good for them and even pleasant; secondly he suggested that the magician was a good master who loved his flock so much that he was ready to do anything in the world for them; and in the third place he suggested to them that if anything at all were going to happen to them it was not going to happen just then... at any rate not that day, and therefore they had no need to think about it.

 

Further the magician suggested to his sheep that they were not sheep at all; to some of them he suggested that they were lions, to others that they were eagles, to others that they were men, and to others that they were magicians.

 

"And after this all his cares and worries about the sheep came to an end. They never ran away again but quietly awaited the time when the magician would require their flesh and skins.

 

"This tale is a very good illustration of man's position."

 

http://www.gurdjieff.am/in-search/index.pdf

[Edward M]

Good topic Jetsun,

 

The Gnostics who wrote the Nag Hammadi Scriptures spoke of the 'archons'. They are parasitic entities that feed off of our negativity and influence us to delve further into it, often through trains of thought.

 

Someone I know is delving deeply into the subject right now and he believes understanding the enemy/the archons and identifying their modus operandi is the key to both personal and collective freedom.

 

If the texts are correct, it's clear that most of the world leaders and power players are possessed by the archon parasites.

 

My own opinion is the key to overcoming them is just plain simple meditative awareness, not just when one is doing their sitting practice.

 

Apparently David Icke has grabbed onto this subject.... just want to make clear that whatever he says on it shouldn't put you off the reality of it all... read the nag hammadi scriptures for the original source material.

 

Peace.

Edward

[Edward M]

Subtle beings that are of a parasitic nature in that they feed off of our negative energy. Like i said, read the nag hammadi txts!

[i am]

Not sure yet whether this "force" is a conscious being with intent, as Edward alludes to, or just our own inner pitfalls and weaknesses, which of course people like to externalize and anthropomorphize.

 

I'll let you know when I think I'm far enough along to make that call.

 

But in the end it probably doesn't matter.

 

Our own personal - demons/hurdles/walls we erect without even knowing - are things we should try to overcome. Whether they're our creation or some actual external force doesn't much matter in the end. Though dealing with yourself seems to make the solution much easier, and makes it easier to take the responsibility yourself. The thought of some actual demon messing with you is much more intimidating, and puts the solution outside of your abilities, often. Is the issue that I need to work on myself, or that I need some qigong master's help ridding me of negative "entities"?

 

A lot of a person's attitude toward life hinges on which interpretation they take...

[C T]

From the Mara angle, it is simply grasping/ignorance. Below is my limited opinion on how negative forces repeatedly binds us to the wheel of rebirth:

 

When something is seen (or heard, tasted, etc), whatever it may be, in this case, this malevolent thing you speak of, there is always, always a minute sort of neutral space which arises like a shadow of whatever is perceived, before the mind can actually form impressions and assign preferences based on individual conditionings, do you agree? Its there, in other words, before grasping/aversion, or dualistic tendencies, are set in motion by nothing other than our own habitual responses.

 

That little gap, in Vajrayana, is what is known as 'Clear Light'. This Clear Light is not to be confused with a brightness of any degree, rather, consider it as absolute potential. Adepts of Vajrayana have mastered the art of arresting this Clear Light, and have trained to lengthen resting in that space longer than their less experienced counterparts. Some can remain longer, some less, for others, it comes in spurts, some days its there, other days, no matter how hard one tries, nothing happens. It all depends on maturing the recognition of it thru devotion and meditation.

 

This same Clear Light becomes extra palpable at death, it is said. Its appearance becomes much more amplified at that point because of the collapse of the elements. At this point the mind gets a short respite from past fears and future hopes, and those who have the necessary affinity backed by right understanding can use this momentary reprieve to attain rebirth in the pure lands. If it is missed, the mind experiences extreme confusion, identical in intensity to the experience of total liberation, except manifesting as its samsaric opposite. What follows subsequently is the mind will undergo the rigmaroles of the bardo process, setting in motion (once more) the twelve links of interdependent origination, leading to rebirth in one of the 6 realms.

 

Its the same now, maybe just a difference in degrees and levels of delusional conditionings -- in every moment there is this Clear Light present - if we are mindfully aware, we get to remain within what is perceived without grasping or averting whatever proceeds from that perception, in which case non-dual awareness redirects the mind back towards itself, which ultimately is empty cognizance suffused with wisdom and compassion (same as moving in a counter direction of the mundane 12 links, or it can be seen in some ways as a flow-reversal); if not, we will have failed to recognise the Clear Light due to habitual reactive tendencies and once again get carried away by the currents of past tendencies built by ignorance, and this begets the next link and the next, and this keeps on repeating over many lifetimes (or many moments, its the same thing), like a hamster in a wheel.

 

The above in some way explains why some masters say that there is fundamentally no difference between samsara and nirvana - the only difference lies in the direction with which we allow the mind to flow the instant we perceive a thought, or a feeling. Phenomena is one - but the potential of the senses to interpret arisings of it is limitless. If we learn not to interpret with the senses, but to rest nakedly in the reality of awareness itself, then it can be said that we will have vanquished the jail-keeper, even if its just for a day or two. With practice, who knows, one day victory becomes permanent.

 

 

 

edited.

Edited October 9, 2014 by C T

[Jetsun]

To put the blame on a external demon or other such external parasitic force may just be another trick to keep us unconscious, because if it is outside of us then we don't look within for the solution, yet I do sort of understand it because why would we do things which are counter productive to our own growth, to keep ourselves confined? When I talked about demons earlier I mean it more as an internal psychic force or attribute rather than an external entity.

 

It could be that it is just the force of our previously erected defences which once upon a time served us but have grown out of use,but still fight for their survival. Yet it seems like most other things in nature die or change when required, except this,which is probably why there have been so many mythologies and theories about what it is and why it exists.

 

I see this "force" all the time now, it is so obvious, for example when non tired people fall asleep in meditation "something" makes them sleep, and with the energy healing I do so far many people fall asleep within five minutes of it me starting it, either I am incredibly boring or something else is going on.

Edited October 9, 2014 by Jetsun

[doc benway]

I think it is best, at least for me, to take personal responsibility rather than look outside oneself for answers.

It is simply ignorance - not knowing the truth about who and what we are, and habit.

That leads to activity that has consequences - karma.

And this spans generations and has enormous inertia in humanity.

I like the analogy of rolled paper as I recently mentioned in another thread - if you store paper rolled up for a decade then try to flatten it, it tends to roll back up. Such is the way of ignorance.

[Marblehead]

To put the blame on a external demon or other such external parasitic force may just be another trick to keep us unconscious,

Putting the blame on anyone or anything else is an error.

[Jetsun]

Putting the blame on anyone or anything else is an error.

 

Including yourself

[Marblehead]

Including yourself

Especially that.

[Guest munky]

Yep this "force" is the denser energies and bodily spirits within our being and our animal nature. Human beings are a mix of yin and yang, dark and light, heavy and lighter energies, with a continuum in between.
Our own internal spirits determine what kind of similar external spirits we attract. Like attracts like, so internal change through cultivation is more effective than worrying about negative external entities.

The heavier energies include the negativity, desires etc that are also seen as obstacles. Society as a whole runs on heavier energies, which is why spiritual cultivation while living in the world comes with its challenges.

I find the view of good vs evil and demonising these denser energies to be very unhelpful in spiritual cultivation and it hinders progress. The same way placing an external image of god for the higher energies does. The more heavier energies someone has in them the more they would be "unconsious", not that they can't stand the light, simply because there isnt enough of the light. And everyone is in a different position in this regard.


The force you mention that keeps us unconscious is the same force that will allow us to become conscious. This is because like jing transforming to shen, the heavier energies are the foundation for the higher. Sexual energy transforms to spiritual energy provided it naturally moves from the hui yin to the head.

In cultivation in daily life and effective spiritual practices, we transform these lower energies into the higher, to increase the higher energies we have, and this results in very gradual spiritual growth over years. But it is true spiritual growth that will actually lead toward the high achievements ancient sages have spoken about.

It's false that by simply eliminating, supressing or shunning away the heavier energies, suddenly we are conscious or have the light and are awakened. Instead by accepting them as a natural part of us that provides support for the spiritual part of ourselves, the heavier energies can flow naturally and move up in the body resulting in sublimation to lighter energies.

We shouldnt throw away the fuel for our spiritual development. Is someone who is elderly and not generating enough sexual energy, more conscious because they don't have the sexual desire blocking them from reaching the light?
Another example is not eating food so the body doesnt generate as much sexual energy may make someone feel less of the dense energies and more spiritual, but that doesnt result in spiritual growth.

On the other hand, living in society with its stresses and challenges without being overwhelmed. And while also maintaining good spiritual attitudes and practice will result in faster spiritual growth than living in seclusion because there is more fuel available.

In reality, there is a continuous igoing up as heavier is transformed into lighter, becoming more and more conscious as the energy refines. As this happens what we previously thought was becoming conscious, seems not so conscious.
So we should accept the darker energies within us and not fight it. Use the proper spiritual attitude, natural health and lifestyle and good spiritual practices as the guide and leader in our life for living in this world. While making peace with the heavier energies within us so they can support the higher.

Edited October 10, 2014 by munky

[thelerner]

What keeps us unconscious?

 

Life itself, day to day responsibilities plus living in a culture that values the physical over the spiritual.

 

and..not enough coffee

[Marblehead]

 

and..not enough coffee

I have a handle on that but not much else.

[idiot_stimpy]

I think its your own desire.

[Spotless]

To put the blame on a external demon or other such external parasitic force may just be another trick to keep us unconscious, because if it is outside of us then we don't look within for the solution, yet I do sort of understand it because why would we do things which are counter productive to our own growth, to keep ourselves confined? When I talked about demons earlier I mean it more as an internal psychic force or attribute rather than an external entity.

 

It could be that it is just the force of our previously erected defences which once upon a time served us but have grown out of use,but still fight for their survival. Yet it seems like most other things in nature die or change when required, except this,which is probably why there have been so many mythologies and theories about what it is and why it exists.

 

I see this "force" all the time now, it is so obvious, for example when non tired people fall asleep in meditation "something" makes them sleep, and with the energy healing I do so far many people fall asleep within five minutes of it me starting it, either I am incredibly boring or something else is going on.

Great thread!

 

Take care in your wording - the use of the word "evil" and "demons" propagates incorrect thinking even if we understand it to be personal internal struggle and not an outside entity. This is true for your internal dialog and definitely true with dialog with others - these are very misleading and charged words. (Just in using these words in a regular setting somewhere mundane, you will find fully over half of the people leave their bodies when hearing such words)

 

The greatest force that "keeps us unconscious" is the mixture of time and space that we erroneously participate in.

"I don't have time for this bullshit"

"I need more space - you will just have to do with less space"

"Their is only so much pie to go around - you will have to look elsewhere"

"I'm going to kill this guy - he has been looking wantonly at my donuts"

"This son of a bitch is going to accomplish something - not if I can help it"

"When (in time) is something going to break (space) my way (space).

In separateness their is time and space - to little time and not enough space - and a whole bunch of zombies we feel the need to climb over or circumvent or allied with in order to get ours in time to enjoy it and become satisfied - "must be satisfied, must be satisfied, must be satisfied (chirp - I can help you find satisfaction - actually I can do that better - these guys are just conning you, here is the real esoteric stuff - I like this food, it's what I eat and you can go fuck your diet - we need to listen to what she is saying - wait, stop, this is dangerous - don't stop our you will die! - you need a healing, a healing will solve your problems - you need another healing, that last one was not very good - buy a crystal and get laid - what an idiot - Jesus what a rack!.......)

 

Lots of chirping going on. Sometimes the chirps hit a critical mass and like robots we do terrible things fully asleep, enraged and compelled by nothing.

 

Their is no time and space - literally.

Edited October 10, 2014 by Spotless

[Marblehead]

I think its your own desire.

I have no more of them.

[C T]

Then what's this about short skirts and bikinis?

Watered down desires? Protean musings maybe?

[Marblehead]

Then what's this about short skirts and bikinis?

Hehehe. Those aren't desires. Something like admiration. Like looking at a new Ferrari. Looks nice but I would have no use for it.

[Marblehead]

Watered down desires? Protean musings maybe?

Just old memories.

[C T]

Just old memories.

aah yes... we all could do with a bit of those harmless walks now and then

[Andrei]

Archon parasites?

 

 

[9th]

The force you mention that keeps us unconscious is the same force that will allow us to become conscious.

 

 

 

The man must understand this: his evolution is necessary only to himself. No one else is interested in it. And no one is obliged or intends to help him. On the contrary, the forces which oppose the evolution of large masses of humanity also oppose the evolution of individual men. A man must outwit them. And one man can outwit them, humanity cannot. You will understand later on that all these obstacles are very useful to a man; if they did not exist they would have to be created intentionally, because it is by overcoming obstacles that man develops those qualities he needs.

"This is the basis of the correct view of human evolution. There is no compulsory, mechanical evolution. Evolution is the result of conscious struggle. Nature does not need this evolution; it does not want it and struggles against it. Evolution can be necessary only to man himself when he realizes his position, realizes the possibility of changing this position, realizes that he has powers that he does not use, riches that he does not see. And, in the sense of gaining possession of these powers and riches, evolution is possible. But if all men, or most of them, realized this and desired to obtain what belongs to them by right of birth, evolution would again become impossible. What is possible for individual man is impossible for the masses.

"The advantage of the separate individual is that he is very small and that, in the economy of nature, it makes no difference whether there is one mechanical man more or less. We can easily understand this correlation of magnitudes if we imagine the correlation between a microscopic cell and our own body. The presence or absence of one cell will change nothing in the life of the body. We cannot be conscious of it, and it can have no influence on the life and functions of the organism. In exactly the same way a separate individual is too small to influence the life of the cosmic organism to which he stands in the same relation (with regard to size) as a cell stands to our own organism. And this is precisely what makes his 'evolution' possible; on this are based his 'possibilities.'

"In speaking of evolution it is necessary to understand from the outset that no mechanical evolution is possible. The evolution of man is the evolution of his consciousness. And 'consciousness' cannot evolve unconsciously. The evolution of man is the evolution of his will, and 'will' cannot evolve involuntarily. The evolution, of man is the evolution of his power of doing, and 'doing' cannot be the result of things which 'happen.'

Edited October 12, 2014 by 9th