Spirituality has to go

[Brian]

Nicely stated, steve.

[dust]

Yeah. I feel like I should've just waited for you (Brian) and Steve to say your pieces....done.

 

Oh well. I know a little better how I feel about things now. Science is evil and must be stopped at all costs.

[Brian]

Yeah. I feel like I should've just waited for you (Brian) and Steve to say your pieces....done.

 

Oh well. I know a little better how I feel about things now. Science is evil and must be stopped at all costs.

I literally LOL'd in the middle of a (boring) meeting.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

Positive and negative are both parts of a human experience but the negative is more noticeable.

 

"Negative is more noticable" and yet you disregard the 'negative reality' by saying:

"That side is only an illusion, the spiritual side exists only out of ignorance of the material world."

 

There is the material and the immaterial, there is reality and non-reality, there is existence and nonexistence: The contrast of the +everythingness of reality+ is -nothingness-. Ironically, it is impossible to 'notice nothing' without seeking, and the positive is actually more noticable, because it is material; WE are immaterial awareness experiencing material bodies.

 

a question: "How are you sure the science is right and we don't just have answers that science haven't considered, yet?"

Some people are so sure about their belief in ghosts and such that they've convinced themselves that there must be a scientific conspiracy to keep away the truth. That. Is. Crazy. But mostly improbable.

 

Emphasis on improbability, not impossibility. Follow the profits.

You basically can convince yourself of anything as long as you have enough chi. Chi is the energy that powers intention, but people give it too much credit at times.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I prescribe to you more emptiness and less fullness, more nothingness and less substance.

 

The jar has use not because of its material, but because of its lack of material - its emptiness is its potential.

The spirit of the jar is its emptiness.

[Protector]

Wait a second, why did I talk about science so much and what does it have to do with anything?

 

This is a thread about how useless spirituality is, and what does spirituality have to do with making anyone happy?

It's as much of a virus as a religion is. You don't know how much you need spirituality until it stares you in the face.

We can survive without technology and be happy living in nature but it doesn't mean we have to be spiritual when living that life.

Enlightenment is useless on the grand scheme of things. You're a Buddha now, whoopity doo. Carry water, chop wood.

There's no need for spiritual fulfillment without knowing spirituality. Enlightenment is treated as an unreachable goal for most people. The goals like that are very freaking arbitrary. "I've reached enlightenment" "No, you didn't" "Why?" "You don't have super powers" Don't get me started on the rainbow body, and what do silly exercises have to do with anything?

First you get a feeling like you need more out of life, then some guy who lived on a mountain for forty years sells you a book and by the time you get to reading it you forger why you were feeling like that in the first place.

 

Yeah, I'm following the profits alright. Deepak Chopra, Mantak Chia, John Chang, the list goes on

COME OUT YOU BASTARDS AND FACE MY SCIENCE!!!

 

that should be on a shirt

[Infinity]

I read this quote last night:

 

"Humanity has every reason to place the proclaimers of high moral standards and values above the discoverers of objective truth. What humanity owes to personalities like Buddha, Moses, and Jesus ranks for me higher than all the achievements of the enquiring and constructive mind.

 

What these blessed men have given us we must guard and try to keep alive with all our strength if humanity is not to lose its dignity, the security of its existence, and its joy in living." ~ Albert Einstein (http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/March_14)

 

 

From a physicalists point of view we are living on the cooled crust of a molten ball which is spinning in a mind bogglingly large possibly infinite universe.

 

Scientist tell us we are 99.999999999% empty space. And on top of that we are all looking at our 'this' world through the filters of our subjective minds point of view. Science has answers but just as many questions!

 

I for one don't want to say anything for certain!

 

"Spirituality has to go"??? What would happen if it went? Is it all beliefs and not rational tested experiences?

 

∞

[Infinity]

Skimmed the thread a bit. What is your definition of 'spirituality'?

 

∞

Edited October 10, 2014 by Infinity

[Infinity]

Religion survives through the power of authority and doesn't like to be questioned. Simple spirituality survives through individual's reasoning and ignorance. Spirituality is not as destructive as religion and any negative or harmful effects are purely dependent on the person's reasoning.

 

Is not reasoning scientific? Religion survives through more than power and authority. That is way over simplistic!

 

∞

Edited October 10, 2014 by Infinity

[Infinity]

Science will never eradicate human ignorance.

 

I think your wrong on this one. We have the power to do that now, they just have to press the buttons and BOOOM! :-)

[Infinity]

Ya I agree religion has definitely caused a lot of wars but just bc you eliminate that doesn't mean humans won't find new things to fight about.

 

I am not sure wars are religious? Maybe in name but underneath its politics. The religion said 'Thou shalt not kill'! But they killed people!? No one perfect however we are all learning...

 

∞

Edited October 10, 2014 by Infinity

[Brian]

The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed.

[Infinity]

 

The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed.

 

Nice, and in the silence of the mind all opposites collide into this wonder this great mystery. This and that, physical and spiritual, here and there.

 

You cannot have one without the other!

 

When the world knows beauty as beauty, ugliness arises

When it knows good as good, evil arises

Thus being and non-being produce each other

Difficult and easy bring about each other

Long and short reveal each other

High and low support each other

Music and voice harmonize each other

Front and back follow each other

Therefore the sages:

Manage the work of detached actions

Conduct the teaching of no words

They work with myriad things but do not control

They create but do not possess

They act but do not presume

They succeed but do not dwell on success

It is because they do not dwell on success

That it never goes away

 

∞

Edited October 10, 2014 by Infinity

[Protector]

Wait a second, why did I talk about science so much and what does it have to do with anything?

 

This is a thread about how useless spirituality is, and what does spirituality have to do with making anyone happy?

It's as much of a virus as a religion is. You don't know how much you need spirituality until it stares you in the face.

We can survive without technology and be happy living in nature but it doesn't mean we have to be spiritual when living that life.

Enlightenment is useless on the grand scheme of things. You're a Buddha now, whoopity doo. Carry water, chop wood.

There's no need for spiritual fulfillment without knowing spirituality. Enlightenment is treated as an unreachable goal for most people. The goals like that are very freaking arbitrary. "I've reached enlightenment" "No, you didn't" "Why?" "You don't have super powers" Don't get me started on the rainbow body, and what do silly exercises have to do with anything?

First you get a feeling like you need more out of life, then some guy who lived on a mountain for forty years sells you a book and by the time you get to reading it you forger why you were feeling like that in the first place.

 

Yeah, I'm following the profits alright. Deepak Chopra, Mantak Chia, John Chang, the list goes on

COME OUT YOU BASTARDS AND FACE MY SCIENCE!!!

 

that should be on a shirt

 

Sorry for the rant

[C T]

I think your wrong on this one. We have the power to do that now, they just have to press the buttons and BOOOM! :-)

Even if that were to happen, it only proves that not spirituality, but science and stupidity are ideal bedfellows.

One feeding the other. I do respect science and certain technologies, and im not saying that science is stupid,

but in that specific context, well... form your own opinion.

[dust]

Wait a second, why did I talk about science so much and what does it have to do with anything?

 

if you don't know I don't know..

 

 

This is a thread about how useless spirituality is, and what does spirituality have to do with making anyone happy?

 

It's made me happier. And "better".

 

 

It's as much of a virus as a religion is. You don't know how much you need spirituality until it stares you in the face.

We can survive without technology and be happy living in nature but it doesn't mean we have to be spiritual when living that life.

Enlightenment is useless on the grand scheme of things. You're a Buddha now, whoopity doo. Carry water, chop wood.

There's no need for spiritual fulfillment without knowing spirituality. Enlightenment is treated as an unreachable goal for most people. The goals like that are very freaking arbitrary. "I've reached enlightenment" "No, you didn't" "Why?" "You don't have super powers" Don't get me started on the rainbow body, and what do silly exercises have to do with anything?

First you get a feeling like you need more out of life, then some guy who lived on a mountain for forty years sells you a book and by the time you get to reading it you forger why you were feeling like that in the first place.

 

Yeah, I'm following the profits alright. Deepak Chopra, Mantak Chia, John Chang, the list goes on

COME OUT YOU BASTARDS AND FACE MY SCIENCE!!!

 

that should be on a shirt

 

Infinity is right to ask for your definition of spirituality. Your concept of it seems rather arbitrary.

 

For me, and many others, as Brian and CT and I and others have tried to explain, spirituality is simply... wonderment. Again, I understand why you're down on religion, but it is not as simple as religion. Religion is obedience, simple as that. Spirituality can be many things.

 

I've never really thought of myself as "spiritual", but after this conversation especially, I kind of do now. Because, like Einstein, I find happiness and solace and wonder in life, and in many aspects of life; the study of biology, the artistic process, my own existence. It's that wonder which I identify with, and I identify the identification of that wonder with "spiritual" teachings.

[C T]

There are simply too many facets of the natural world that science will not even bother to explain because it does nothing to advance its cause, but for the spiritual, these insignificant details are not discarded, on the contrary every little dance is embraced in its totality, and allowed its own dignity, even this...

 

 

 

[dust]

Also, I am curious about life on other planets, but we don't need to go into space to seek it because it exists right here.. in the form of pugs! They must be from another planet..

[C T]

Also, I am curious about life on other planets, but we don't need to go into space to seek it because it exists right here.. in the form of pugs! They must be from another planet..

lol

[Brian]

Also, I am curious about life on other planets, but we don't need to go into space to seek it because it exists right here.. in the form of pugs! They must be from another planet..

Having inherited one, I can assure you that they are NOT dogs. Wife and I are quite certain his is either some sort of rodent, a demon or an alien. We aren't quite sure which, though.

[C T]

Having inherited one, I can assure you that they are NOT dogs. Wife and I are quite certain his is either some sort of rodent, a demon or an alien. We aren't quite sure which, though.

Its no wonder they put one in MIB.

[dc9]

Hey OP, really like your post You seem to have a skeptical and scientific mindset, so it intrigues me why you are on this forum and appear to be quite active as well. I'm also very skeptical, and I only recently started practicing, all in the hopes of being able to feel the qi/chakra/energy that I have read so many people raving about.

I would like to hear what is your view on qi? You do believe it exists, and I assume have experienced it yourself, right? I assume that you think qi is something like a metaphorical concept for the way meditation alters the nervous system, or something like that?

It's just strange for me to read some of the posts on this forum, being a skeptical atheist with no belief in any spirituality but with a desperate desire for it to be real. Like, I want to believe that the things I'm reading is true, but it just makes no logical sense. If qi was so powerful and gives people magical powers, where is the evidence?!? Why hasn't anyone shown up and given concrete evidence of the existance of super powers? The only conclusion I can jump to is that only thing real about qi is the sensation of it.

Edited October 10, 2014 by dc9

[Protector]

I think I explained spirituality as a personal form of religion. When many people believe the same thing, it's a religion. When one guy does, it's a spirituality. Even the ALMIGHTY INTERNET doesn't have a clear definition, but come on, wonderment? Seriously? a state of awed admiration or respect

That's not what books are written about and people scammed out of their money

[Infinity]

I think I explained spirituality as a personal form of religion. When many people believe the same thing, it's a religion. When one guy does, it's a spirituality. Even the ALMIGHTY INTERNET doesn't have a clear definition, but come on, wonderment? Seriously? a state of awed admiration or respect

That's not what books are written about and people scammed out of their money

 

I think I can see where your coming from Protector, airy fairy believers in sandals with crystals reading anything on the internet and believing it and spouting it maybe?

 

But that is not spirituality for me or everyone(I assume).

 

For me its about my life experience energetically. My feeling and connection to myself, nature, the world (and everything in it) and the universe! Rationality and thought don't give peace! Or 'the mind has all the questions the heart has all the answers' - someone.

 

Its about maybe being me and my relationship to me and others. Feeling of 'my' spirit my energy.

 

∞

Edited October 10, 2014 by Infinity

[Protector]

Hey OP, really like your post You seem to have a skeptical and scientific mindset, so it intrigues me why you are on this forum and appear to be quite active as well. I'm also very skeptical, and I only recently started practicing, all in the hopes of being able to feel the qi/chakra/energy that I have read so many people raving about.

 

I would like to hear what is your view on qi? You do believe it exists, and I assume have experienced it yourself, right? I assume that you think qi is something like a metaphorical concept for the way meditation alters the nervous system, or something like that?

 

It's just strange for me to read some of the posts on this forum, being a skeptical atheist with no belief in any spirituality but with a desperate desire for it to be real. Like, I want to believe that the things I'm reading is true, but it just makes no logical sense. If qi was so powerful and gives people magical powers, where is the evidence?!? Why hasn't anyone shown up and given concrete evidence of the existance of super powers? The only conclusion I can jump to is that only thing real about qi is the sensation of it.

 

Oh hey, good question. I wrote quite a bunch about chi and horse stance around here.

 

Chi powers Yi and creates Jing. There are many interpretations for the relationship between the three but this is my favorite and makes most sense. Yi means intention so Chi is the energy that powers intention to create Jing, that is in this relationship means action or physical representation of the intention.

For example, you intent to move your arm and it moves, the intention is yi and the action is jing. If you want to lift a weight that you think is heavy but is actually isn't, you will put more chi into it then needed and it will fly off the ground like it's nothing. It's a mental thing, not supernatural. If you want to feel chi, you won't until you use it to express it somehow. Like, you want to know it's in your hand so you express it through warmth and your mind will tell you that your hand is warm.

There is a limited potential in people for how much chi they have for different things off the bat so people do practices to build up chi, like the one will lifting a weight.

Chi follows the course of less resistance like a water current, weak current will wash around a rock and a strong one will blow it away. If you stop water from flowing then release it at one, you will have more power for the action you're doing.

Imagine flicking something with a finger, that's how the build up works.

So chi is like a mental fuel. Theoretically it could be used to start fires with your hands but we're not build for that. Chi follows the course of less resistance, so instead of starting a real fire in your hand, you will feel warm because that's easier for your body to do.

If you use chi instead to lift weights, through repetition you will have big muscles that represent jing and additional wires for the current to flow through. Theoretically that repetition like lifting weight in a gym wastes a lot of chi to create a lot of jing so you won't have a lot of energy left for other things. Kung fu people use more static training like horse stance to stop the current from escaping and get ready to flick their fingers on command.

People get great results from kung fu so they assume they can use chi to do other things, but we use muscles to lift things while we don't have muscles for levitating, throwing fireballs, reading minds, other things. So, there's a limit.

[Infinity]

Hey OP, really like your post You seem to have a skeptical and scientific mindset, so it intrigues me why you are on this forum and appear to be quite active as well. I'm also very skeptical, and I only recently started practicing, all in the hopes of being able to feel the qi/chakra/energy that I have read so many people raving about.

 

I would like to hear what is your view on qi? You do believe it exists, and I assume have experienced it yourself, right? I assume that you think qi is something like a metaphorical concept for the way meditation alters the nervous system, or something like that?

 

It's just strange for me to read some of the posts on this forum, being a skeptical atheist with no belief in any spirituality but with a desperate desire for it to be real. Like, I want to believe that the things I'm reading is true, but it just makes no logical sense. If qi was so powerful and gives people magical powers, where is the evidence?!? Why hasn't anyone shown up and given concrete evidence of the existance of super powers? The only conclusion I can jump to is that only thing real about qi is the sensation of it.

 

 

Sorry Protector for the little derail.

 

Hey DC9,

 

My view is that its difficult to experience anything that your mind does not believe in.

 

So be very skeptical, I would learn to really question everything ALL your beliefs. I think beliefs are choices not truths. Question your beliefs that say 'that cannot be real' as that is a belief and question your belief that says 'that is real' as that is a belief too. Take no heed of the 'beliefs' current social acceptance!

 

If your a 'scientific' skeptic know that science says we are 99.999999999% empty space(WTF!!!) The physical is not physical!

 

We have minds that talk to us and describe 'our' world. If you want to see the truth stop describing the world to yourself and 'see' and 'feel'!

 

Your going to need serious intent or a mind that can dissolve into the heart!

 

Best of luck,

 

∞

Edited October 10, 2014 by Infinity