Spirituality has to go

[Marblehead]

"Oh, I hate baseball! All they do is run back and forth across a wooden floor, whacking that little ball with a little round paddle and shouting 'Touchdown!'" -- I might reply by asking, "So tell me what you know about accounting..."

I've actually heard stuff like that here on TaoBums.

[Brian]

I've actually heard stuff like that here on TaoBums.

Yeah, me too...

 

[Protector]

The more I look at this thread, the more tired I get

 

Just a thought, the discourse seems to be Western in slant, by which I mean that the subject of God is only referred in relation to an Abrhamic monotheist; old man in the sky type of deity. Just as Richard Dawkins never speaks to one who is versed in sanAtana dharma, they would refer to the multidimensional model of the universe from which modern science has borrowed so very heavily.

 

Science didn't borrow anything. They followed the logic and now we even have 11th dimension to consider. Alan Guth is not a Hindu, nor is Andrei Linde, or... who else is there?

There are Muslims out there who think Islam is right because they predicted the discovery of black holes in the Koran. There are a lot of spiritual people who use scientific discoveries to try to prove their own point. Speaking of, here's Richard Dawkins vs such person who is not of Abrahamic religion.

Short interview

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-FaXD_igv4

Full interview

 

"Hijacked the word for their own use" how interesting

 

God is a tool, by transferring adoration from ones self or ones vices and desires onto a benign form, so as to help destroy ones own ego and remove attachments to others or things; from which point onwards the tool is perhaps no longer needed, thus disregarded. God consciousness is a state of mind, not a belief; belief requires that the ego get involved in the whole process. Of course many over time misunderstand this, until the doctrine is so old that it no longer works and quite the reverse happens. Like a tree with no sap.

To channel energy rather than consume or give unwittingly; the ego must go.
The Hindu Devas, are another good example of this, used heavily in Jyotish shastra. They are our emotions or senses which are them selves considered to be tattva/elements; used in a profound testable scientific system and are used to make regularly accurate predictions. If you don't see what I mean by devas being our emotions think of mob or group mentality to see the deity or demon. How else would you describe it a thousand years ago?

Are we so indoctrinated in our atheism as to believe that God is only of Abrahmic construct; the proverbial old man in the sky?

"Spirituality has to go" is sounding rather thin at the moment, due to a lack of valid response or augment ...

To which I say: sociopothy and narcissism have to go; only spirituality can assist in achieving this.

 

I'm saying sociopathy and narcissism must stay

 

You've described the problem but you think it's the solution. God consciousness, mindfulness, and other super cool states of mind, like Alaska.

Modern people are walking around with their heads down looking at cellphones. Greedy, selfish, constantly hurting themselves and potentially others. The world is moving one way while spirituality is pulling it back, not only historically with old gods but also "spiritually."

We have greedy westerners with their expensive iphones, disgusting porn, and negative mindsets. Then come these spiritual ideas that transform these demons into gods with a goal of going back to nature and self improvement. But it's not universal and only a few people form these hippie-like groups that disappear after a while. They are ignored by the greedy and the ideology sizzles out. Completely useless attempts that wont work unless the society is under theocratic dictatorship like Vatican or Dalai Lama. The society needs to see its materialistic pursuit through, so it could evolve on its own. More porn, more drugs, until they don't want any anymore.

 

...but that's beside the point

 

My argument is not science vs spirituality but materialism vs spirituality. Hard to word it right, but science is so useful that it's hard to ignore. Spirituality doesn't make life better, all effects are psychological and if permanent, take up too much time. On the other side, you could always get drunk. Not a permanent solution, but it's more interesting to be able to get hurt than be a god.

Spirituality made you feel good, good for you. That didn't make everyone else in the world feel better. I'm thinking, like with Taiji, everyone needs a push forward for a transformation. Now, I don't think there's a spiritual conspiracy that pulls everyone back, but don't see it useful for humanity either.

There's also humanism that wants to promote positive change, but I don't care if either my form of materialism of humanism wins, which is based on reason and ignores the supernatural. I care that there are less people believing in faeries.

 

[C T]

Those who get drunk go to sleep. Sleeping, they dont sin. When they dont sin, they go to heaven. Thats why God created whiskey... as a way to lead his flock home.

[Protector]

Amen. Page 9, let's get shitfaced *GLUG-GLUG*

[C T]

Amen. Page 9, let's get shitfaced *GLUG-GLUG*

You should have opened with this line. Could have saved everyone a lot of time and unnecessary waste of grey matter.

[CloudHands]

Amen. Page 9, let's get shitfaced *GLUG-GLUG*

 

 

AHAH thanks to you to provoke reflexion and let some pretty nice posts out.

Edited October 13, 2014 by CloudHands

[doc benway]

Amen. Page 9, let's get shitfaced *GLUG-GLUG*

 

[doc benway]

Hmm, yes, psychological transformation is useful at times of trouble. Knowing self, all that. But you know, guys. At times it takes too long. And when it takes a long time, said transformation becomes a spiritual journey and experience and a personal religion.

Let's say somewhere in the western world, there is a person at the point of breaking. There's no one they can talk to so they turn to god and through some soul searching they find Jesus. The person gets so focused on serving god that they don't feel the pain and work things out. After a while everything is awesome and everything is perfect, but they don't stop serving god and, in my person deeply atheistic opinion , that's a waste of time.

That's the point - your opinion.

It's different for the ones it helps.

 

 

This fixation is very visible in saved people but I think just deeply spiritual people don't notice it when it happens to them.

Or they're completely OK with it because they're filled with gratitude and, consequently, devotion.

These feelings are what drive the spiritual path.

And they're not too much different from what drives the researcher.

 

 

A super amazing psychiatrist could probably clear things up, and Buddhism was one of the world earliest sources of psychiatric help, but Buddhism has a lot more monks then psychiatry.

True - Buddhism is a nice combination of psychology and spirituality.

And the monks I've gotten to know are great people.

 

 

Also, they don't run a forum after the experience.

It is kinda silly talking about it here, but I figured I'd just make one thread instead to just jumping all over the forum bothering everybody.

That was cool of you - sincerely.

thanks

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

Am I the only one seeing this?

 

 

The infinite possible versions support the idea that my version is the superior one

If just wonderment is acceptable as an example of spirituality, then how good a sandwich tastes like should, too.

My list is simply everything that is yin. Things that are not based in reality that lead to magical thinking and suspension of reason. Magic becomes more acceptable and things like astrology and such become legitimized. Questions about astrology actually pop around here, even though it doesn't work or should work in any way.

When religion is gone, spirituality will take its place as the next dangerous thing.

 

 

The point is balance. you missed it again.

 

 

Deliberately, i presume?

 

 

There's making a point, and then there's ragging on your own point until it becomes numbingly asinine.

 

If there must be science, then there must be balance by way of "ignorant faith".

 

One extreme relies on its counterpart, and likewise, the counterpart is nothing without the other extreme.

 

 

Why cant we combine, instead of single out and eliminate?

 

What faith you must have in science. Testable experiments with consistent resuts are nice and all, but you cant have them without untestable experiments with inconsistent resultws, otherwise, what are you comparing "consistent results" with?

 

What is your ulterior goal in denouncing spirituality?

[C T]

 

What is your ulterior goal in denouncing spirituality?

To declare an official 'Alcoholiday' on the calendar, perhaps?

[Marblehead]

The point is balance.

Your post gave me thought. In regard to faith and science.

 

A scientist is relying pretty much on faith when they propose their hypothesis. It is a statement based on a "gut" feeling. Then the theory and testing begins. If the testing fails the theory fails as well. But the faith might still remain.

[Protector]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=1k8AbL28uoQ#t=402

 

6:42

 

There's no point in balancing something that is not on the equal standing with the other. There is no duality in a pear and a plane.

No one think they are 100% correct before they do an experiment. Except they might think, "I'm doing this because I'm 100% confined it wont kill me." They think that because of evidence, not faith.

What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. There's no proof that spirituality is all it's cracked up to be, except it makes people feel more important about themselves.

[iain]

Your post gave me thought. In regard to faith and science.

 

A scientist is relying pretty much on faith when they propose their hypothesis. It is a statement based on a "gut" feeling. Then the theory and testing begins. If the testing fails the theory fails as well. But the faith might still remain.

Mathematicians regularly precede physics by centuries; their practices is a purely spiritual pursuit.

 

A great example being Maxwell with his famous field theory of electromagnetism; borrowing on mathematics already well ahead of its time; I will need to look the maths up.

Edited October 13, 2014 by iain

[iain]

Dear Protector,

 

Please, I am all Dawkined out, he is so infuriatingly preachy ...

[Marblehead]

... except it makes people feel more important about themselves.

Well, what's wrong with that? Hehehe. As long as it's not over-done.

[Marblehead]

Mathematicians regularly precede physics by centuries; their practices is a purely spiritual pursuit.

Although I don't totally agree it is a nice thought none-the-less.

[iain]

Quantum theory in regard to science; why this is so relevant to the upanishads and to vedic science is blatantly obvious to a Jyotisa:

The scientific mind so often peers too sternly at the objective world, so much so that it fails to recognize its own similarity to the photon detector in the famous quantum slit experiment; if in fact the mind is less objective (externalized) and a little more subjective (internalized), when retracted from observation and analysis im meditation; there is a second slit right next to the first through which we have been peeking; the result of seeing this second slit or rather by not looking so objectively at the first, the nature of the reality being observed changes, or rather, I should say "percieved" ...

Perhaps this could explain why 80% of the universe is missing?

I would so love to "chat" with Mr Dawkins, I was abused by science in my childhood, physically and psychologically ...

Edited October 14, 2014 by iain

[iain]

Although I don't totally agree it is a nice thought none-the-less.

Perhaps you don't know any mathematicians?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srinivasa_Ramanujan

 

This chap claims the goddess saraswati revealed maths to him in dreams ...

Edited October 13, 2014 by iain

[iain]

Where as an occidental equivalent was so tortured by his visions (given to him by the gods) that he eventually committed suicide.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georg_Cantor

It may be the dark Abrahamic slant that did that?

Edited October 13, 2014 by iain

[MooNiNite]

spirituality is everything, it goes beyond internet forums haha..to believe someone is spiritual because they read "spiritual books", debate on spiritual forums, and meditate on full moons is like completely silly

[C T]

I thought drinking was a sin. Before falling asleep (aka passing out), the spirit of the drunken one can be led astray...to cause bar fights, domestic violence, DWI accidents...

 

Gaelic "whisky" means "water of life?" WoW

I was merely jesting, RV! I'm 98% teetotal so... escapades of old are best left in the past

[iain]

Nope sorry, had to turn Dawkins off when he started ranting about delusions; he should consider training as a priest, he could then perform exorcisms ...

If the cap fits and all that.

Edited October 13, 2014 by iain

[Marblehead]

Perhaps you don't know any mathematicians?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srinivasa_Ramanujan

 

This chap claims the goddess saraswati revealed maths to him in dreams ...

Well, I don't consider living for only 32 years much of an accomplishment.

 

Some people are born with strong mathematics abilities.

 

I can balance my checkbook but if you ask me for the area of a cone you can forget it.

[Protector]

Nope sorry, had to turn Dawkins off when he started ranting about delusions; he should consider training as a priest, he could then perform exorcisms ...

 

If the cap fits and all that.

 

So, it finally happened. Dawkins is the kryptonite