Is celibacy for 10 years realistic?

[thelerner]

I've found myself agreeing with arguments on both sides!? In many gi gong traditions you have 100 day abstinence recommended. Ten years seems to go from a practice to a life style. It'll certainly affect those you get into relations with and alter the trajectory of your life.

 

I think those who succeed find it become there natural state, those who don't are continually fighting it. What I mean is certainly it'll be hard at first and you'd have to stick with it, but after a fair amount of time, if its still an effort Or if your emotions or body are reacting poorly. Reexamine the practice.

 

From what I've read true celibacy starts in the mind, losing the desire there first or moving the thoughts away from sexual. Then it requires a practice that uses the energy (circulates it??), which are out there, but above my pay scale. Cause stagnant energy can cause a laundry list of problems from manic behavior to physical problems.

[C T]

I think those who succeed find it become there natural state, those who don't are continually fighting it.

When i first started, difficulties arose in those times when assailed by conflicting emotions. That was before i was taught that conflicting emotions can be transformed into precious practice gems! Then all the fighting against gradually dissipated thru learning how one can re-assign emerging negative emotions with their enlightened opposites. After getting used to this new awareness, in time, i got to realise that the natural state encompasses every single facet of the psychophysical being, and this was quite a freeing realisation indeed. It really helped integrate the process in a more wholesome direction.

[Dharmakaya]

So it seems you want to make spiritual progress, and you have hit upon celibacy as a way to do this. Given your past porn addiction this seems reasonable. However let me say clearly; celibacy is not a requirement to make spiritual progress.

 

In my view spiritual progress has much more to do with the strength of person's desire to overcome their obstacles, their strength of willpower in steadfastly applying effort, and the correctness and correct suiting of the teachings they follow. Overall though the most important may be a 'middle way' mind set. Too little exertion and one gets nowhere, but too much exertion and one can become stuck, like trying to pull your fingers forcefully out of a Chinese finger trap.

 

Spirituality is ultimately about giving up and surrendering to what is. Personally I find relationships to be very helpful for practice as one is forced to develop compassion for another person and give up selfish ideas. I do not see 10 years of celibacy to be conducive to forming healthy intimate relationships, however if you undertake this you will no doubt discover the true effects whatever they may be.

 

My point is balance is important; remember the middle way! All the best!

[sillybearhappyhoneyeater]

i would refer your question back to you - how is the body not designed for sexual purposes?

if you are a male, you have a penis and testicles, they are made to create little people - if you are a woman, you have a vagina, ovaries and the whole kit and kaboodle - these are very important processes of the body.

I don't need a set of beliefs to prove that when my lady climbs on top of me, my little willy stands up on and and wants to be... well anyway, i digress.

 

celibicy is a terrible idea if you aren't completely stable -

actually, i Clearly remember a long period of time living in Hokkaido when I refused to engage in any sexual activities - it was pure torture, because my body was young, and I just wasn't ready to cut myself off. I frequently got blue balls, and could only deal with it by going for a run, or doing a hundred or so push ups and sit ups. I got really fit, but i also got really crazy.

the hormones of the human body have to be regulated - and between certain ages, the sexual function plays a larger or smaller role that other ages. I would suggest that most males before thirteen have only very vague sexual urges, but after the onset of puberty, they begin to develop very specific desires and sexual goals. Generally speaking, most men begin to slow down energetically by the end of their thirties, being able to feel more tired after work, making love, having children to stay with and the lot. At this time, it is more important in a secular daoist perspective to slow down the sex life a bit.

My friend studies with Qian zhaohong in Shanghai and his teacher told him a number of times that although his wife wishes to sleep with him quite often, he is only willing to do it once a week, because he is close to seventy years old and needs to conserve as much of his jing as he can.

Now this is perhaps not something that will be proven any time soon by western science, but within the parameter of daoist practice, certainly these ideas are held as commonplace.

 

I think most twenty year old lads wanting to stop fapping usually do it because they have built up guilt complexes over the years due to social pressure and media inuendo. People are often taught to ignore their sexual urges in order to live up to a false social standard about normative moral behaviour. I think learning to turn off the tap sexually is a great thing to be able to do, but most secular people wouldn't choose to do it completely. Going completely celibate is the domain of monks and lunatics.

[allinone]

i would refer your question back to you - how is the body not designed for sexual purposes?

if you are a male, you have a penis and testicles, they are made to create little people - if you are a woman, you have a vagina, ovaries and the whole kit and kaboodle - these are very important processes of the body.

I don't need a set of beliefs to prove that when my lady climbs on top of me, my little willy stands up on and and wants to be... well anyway, i digress.

 

celibicy is a terrible idea if you aren't completely stable -

actually, i Clearly remember a long period of time living in Hokkaido when I refused to engage in any sexual activities - it was pure torture, because my body was young, and I just wasn't ready to cut myself off. I frequently got blue balls, and could only deal with it by going for a run, or doing a hundred or so push ups and sit ups. I got really fit, but i also got really crazy.

the hormones of the human body have to be regulated - and between certain ages, the sexual function plays a larger or smaller role that other ages. I would suggest that most males before thirteen have only very vague sexual urges, but after the onset of puberty, they begin to develop very specific desires and sexual goals. Generally speaking, most men begin to slow down energetically by the end of their thirties, being able to feel more tired after work, making love, having children to stay with and the lot. At this time, it is more important in a secular daoist perspective to slow down the sex life a bit.

My friend studies with Qian zhaohong in Shanghai and his teacher told him a number of times that although his wife wishes to sleep with him quite often, he is only willing to do it once a week, because he is close to seventy years old and needs to conserve as much of his jing as he can.

Now this is perhaps not something that will be proven any time soon by western science, but within the parameter of daoist practice, certainly these ideas are held as commonplace.

 

I think most twenty year old lads wanting to stop fapping usually do it because they have built up guilt complexes over the years due to social pressure and media inuendo. People are often taught to ignore their sexual urges in order to live up to a false social standard about normative moral behaviour. I think learning to turn off the tap sexually is a great thing to be able to do, but most secular people wouldn't choose to do it completely. Going completely celibate is the domain of monks and lunatics.

 

celibacy is the opposite to the mindset what you have written down.

 

Alchemy point is to learn to transform jing to chi and chi to shen. If you are f... all the time then jing never turns to shen.

 

jing is unmoving state, chi is when energy in your genitals start to vibrate(also lust becomes high), its the time to gather it because its probably the maximum amount you can hold.

 

the skill how to harvest becomes better over time. Strict Celibacy is not very skillful but from somewhere have to start.

Edited October 13, 2014 by allinone

[voidisyinyang]

I had a female approach me today and then vigorously bounce her leg while she stood next to me - she did this to suck in my "yin chi" energy - I know that because I could feel her doing so while the "yin chi" was being pulled down in frequency into "yin jing" energy.

 

So yin chi is "yang jing" energy - for someone to approach me and then vigorously bounce their leg to suck in my energy - my coworker saw the lady doing this and so I explained to him why she was doing it. haha.

 

I have gone into this before with a term for it - "perv attack" - when it is done by males. When done by females it is different since their jing energy is "yang" internally - meaning the female stays in the parasympathetic vagus nerve at orgasmic climax. More specifically my "yin chi" energy, being sucked in by the female, builds up her vagus nerve energy until it climaxes - the "yin chi" activates the electromagnetic vagus nerve connected to the cervix. When the male sucks in the energy by bouncing the leg vigorously - then the perv has to ejaculate which triggers a switch of their nervous system to the stress sympathetic nervous system.

 

So for me - the lady who did it to me today - well usually I don't mind females doing this since in my experience that is how females get their energy. haha. I am told by the qigong masters that it is wrong for females to do this and that instead females should look to God or the Emptiness to get their energy. My experience is females have an instinctive reaction to suck in the "yin chi" energy as it is activating their vagus nerve. Also females are trying to compete to be like males in modern society and so they rely on these tactics to get more energy to compete with males.

 

But my point is by me "allowing" that female to do that - not fighting her - not insisting she go away or stop what she is doing, etc. - then I am also no longer being celibate - I am engaging with her energy so that she is taking my yang jing energy and so I am no longer building up my "yin chi" energy.

 

Again you have to build up your "yin chi" energy to fill up the lower tan tien before the "yang chi" is activated.

 

You can take in shen energy and convert your "yin chi" from prenatal jing energy into "yang chi" - through fasting and meditation - this is the fast route - but it is dangerous because if you lose focus then you can easily lose this energy. The main way you can lose it is precisely this way of people around you taking the energy from you. - so in that case if you are fasting then they are taking your prenatal yin chi instead of yin chi you may have created from postnatal food energy and qigong practice, etc. You can take in people's "yin jing" energy instead of food - but still they are taking your "yin chi" energy and so you still lose energy in the process - since it takes a lot of "yin jing" energy to make "yin chi." Also you are taking in their dirty energy from the lower emotional blockages - whereas if you are converting your prenatal yin chi based on meditation on the Emptiness then it is pure energy that turns into yang chi directly.

 

So this is why actual true celibacy is very difficult and yet it is required to get to the advanced yang chi energy since any kind of tantra practice will always be limited to just the lower level of yang chi - at best.

[ganjaboy]

All good advice, but at the same time I wonder if it is possible that I am over thinking it.... i have a tendency to over think everything. If my girlfriend and I wish to share loving sexual experiences, is there really any harm in that? I like to think in terms of jing, shen, qi and all that, but perhaps sex is something I just shouldn't over think. Maybe my life needs to unfold more naturally, in accordance with the Dao, and if I make mistakes I learn from them. Just another thought... agh I feel like I'm second guessing now lol.

[BaguaKicksAss]

All good advice, but at the same time I wonder if it is possible that I am over thinking it.... i have a tendency to over think everything. If my girlfriend and I wish to share loving sexual experiences, is there really any harm in that? I like to think in terms of jing, shen, qi and all that, but perhaps sex is something I just shouldn't over think. Maybe my life needs to unfold more naturally, in accordance with the Dao, and if I make mistakes I learn from them. Just another thought... agh I feel like I'm second guessing now lol.

 

I think step 1 might be to first talk it over with your girlfriend and see what she thinks of the idea. Since you said she's probably your soulmate, I'm also guessing best friend, so you can get her perspective on things, and also get a feel about whether sex is something necessary to her or not.

[de_paradise]

Nobody can answer for you your question. Even though I've been celibate for around 8 years, and gone through lots of alchemical progress, I cannot say what my attainment would be if I had had relationships and regular sex this whole time. I have tried to have relationships, but the women I found were hostile to the spiritual path, and did not really believe in it. Different value structure. There are more path conducive approaches to relationship, like a kind of tantric couple. But the women I met were into fulfilling social norms, not really spiritual refinement. Who doesnt pay lip service to spirituality? Who doesnt want to learn a bit of qigong or yoga for health? Its a balancing act to be a serious cultivator while out in society, working, and interacting with people. You get distracted, and that is perhaps the most important point. At the start I did not make any 10 year plan, I just was influenced by some masters who were pro-celibacy, and since my kundalini became active, it seemed I just had to keep the snowball rolling. In the context of all the physical and mental detox I was going through, I think celibacy made sense. Kundalini often turns people into some kind of social outcasts for a number of years, so no sex is just part of it.

 

So celibacy can make sense within the wider context of what you are doing, or it may not be of much value given your context (as other posters have explained).

 

Edited October 14, 2014 by de_paradise

[Spotless]

Retaining is simply not helpful for a great many students. It is far better for a teacher to recommend it to you or for you to ask a long standing teacher of your what they think about it for you.

 

9/10ths of the stuff out there about the benifits of retention are incorrect and holdovers from dogmatic babble in the transition from external alchemy to internal alchemy and the search for eternal life. It is simply mostly inappropriate for most people.

And in case more clarity is needed - it is often the most needed by those that have a great deficiency - not those with a proclivity to wank.

 

If you are doing high levels of practice and actual cultivation within, sexual release will curtail all by itself if that is where you have arrived or it will evolve into something far more than you are used to. In any case, ask your teacher - what you are setting out to do at this point appears very misguided and in all probability of no use. If it becomes an ego attribute then it will not be good for you even if the energy results work.

 

I have also found that regular sex with a partner is about one tenth the amount of sex by oneself - so you end up with a good sexual relationship and less wanking (unless of course you do both in which case - chaffing and time is a consideration )

Edited October 14, 2014 by Spotless

[ganjaboy]

Retaining is simply not helpful for a great many students. It is far better for a teacher to recommend it to you or for you to ask a long standing teacher of your what they think about it for you.

 

9/10ths of the stuff out there about the benifits of retention are incorrect and holdovers from dogmatic babble in the transition from external alchemy to internal alchemy and the search for eternal life. It is simply mostly inappropriate for most people.

And in case more clarity is needed - it is often the most needed by those that have a great deficiency - not those with a proclivity to wank.

 

If you are doing high levels of practice and actual cultivation within, sexual release will curtail all by itself if that is where you have arrived or it will evolve into something far more than you are used to. In any case, ask your teacher - what you are setting out to do at this point appears very misguided and in all probability of no use. If it becomes an ego attribute then it will not be good for you even if the energy results work.

 

I have also found that regular sex with a partner is about one tenth the amount of sex by oneself - so you end up with a good sexual relationship and less wanking (unless of course you do both in which case - chaffing and time is a consideration )

Thanks for you insights. I'm considering walking a middle path with regard to sexuality as per Buddhist view (the Buddha renounced asceticism as unsustainable, and I feel that complete celibacy for 10 years is unrealistic and a recipe for disaster). Instead I want to just take careful note of where the energies go, be mindful of them and how I can redirect them appropriately. I'm only 20 years old lol, I mean I'm still figuring out my sexuality and cutting it off entirely probably is a bad idea.

[C T]

Thanks for you insights. I'm considering walking a middle path with regard to sexuality as per Buddhist view (the Buddha renounced asceticism as unsustainable, and I feel that complete celibacy for 10 years is unrealistic and a recipe for disaster). Instead I want to just take careful note of where the energies go, be mindful of them and how I can redirect them appropriately. I'm only 20 years old lol, I mean I'm still figuring out my sexuality and cutting it off entirely probably is a bad idea.

Whatever you decide, remember, best not to be overly serious, or the whole purpose and the actual experiences, instead of taking you further along as a cultivator, can arise as obstacles. For example, first contemplating 10 years of celibacy, and now, saying its unrealistic and a possible recipe for disaster is quite a swing from one extreme to the other... so, your intention to take the middle path is indeed a good one.

[bluefire]

Thanks for you insights. I'm considering walking a middle path with regard to sexuality as per Buddhist view (the Buddha renounced asceticism as unsustainable, and I feel that complete celibacy for 10 years is unrealistic and a recipe for disaster). Instead I want to just take careful note of where the energies go, be mindful of them and how I can redirect them appropriately. I'm only 20 years old lol, I mean I'm still figuring out my sexuality and cutting it off entirely probably is a bad idea.

 

Why not just a couple months up to a year to look how its going? If you like it and it helps continue, switch around or just choose what combination of having sex or not works best for you.

The post gives a bit of a impression of either I do it 10 years or none - which is strange.

[ganjaboy]

Why not just a couple months up to a year to look how its going? If you like it and it helps continue, switch around or just choose what combination of having sex or not works best for you.

The post gives a bit of a impression of either I do it 10 years or none - which is strange.

I've been celibate for months at a time before. I think at this point I would be best just to have a healthy sex life (in moderation) and a healthy spiritual life (in moderation). I'm sensitive enough that I don't believe I will ever have serious issues of balance. What is harmful however in my experience is obsessing, worrying and thinking too much about life instead of actually living it.

[GrandmasterP]

Thanks for you insights. I'm considering walking a middle path with regard to sexuality as per Buddhist view (the Buddha renounced asceticism as unsustainable, and I feel that complete celibacy for 10 years is unrealistic and a recipe for disaster). Instead I want to just take careful note of where the energies go, be mindful of them and how I can redirect them appropriately. I'm only 20 years old lol, I mean I'm still figuring out my sexuality and cutting it off entirely probably is a bad idea.

Good call.

You are 20 FFS.

Boff in good health lad and enjoy.

 

Edited October 17, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[nickyro]

Thanks for you insights. I'm considering walking a middle path with regard to sexuality as per Buddhist view (the Buddha renounced asceticism as unsustainable, and I feel that complete celibacy for 10 years is unrealistic and a recipe for disaster). Instead I want to just take careful note of where the energies go, be mindful of them and how I can redirect them appropriately. I'm only 20 years old lol, I mean I'm still figuring out my sexuality and cutting it off entirely probably is a bad idea.

My 2 cents:

Don't forget there is a cultivation value to the "tantric act" which is strong enough for some people to call it the fastest path to enlightenment.

Strict bramacharya may be outdated material practiced in ancient inda and is related to a philosophy which tends to negate the value of human experience.

[silent thunder]

I've never experienced much use in trying to build up the spirit by beating or denying the flesh.

I build up the spirit by building the spirit, not by focusing on denying some other aspect of myself.

That said, there are natural cycles I've not intended, yet have occurred and celibacy for some periods of my life have happened very naturally and with no struggle, nor suffering. I just stopped seeking or engaging in sex for a time.

 

Life moves in cycles. I intend to follow Nature, Nature follows Tao.

[C T]

I've never experienced much use in trying to build up the spirit by beating or denying the flesh.

I build up the spirit by building the spirit, not by focusing on denying some other aspect of myself.

That said, there are natural cycles I've not intended, yet have occurred and celibacy for some periods of my life have happened very naturally and with no struggle, nor suffering. I just stopped seeking or engaging in sex for a time.

 

Life moves in cycles. I intend to follow Nature, Nature follows Tao.

Celibacy is a form of spiritual discipline, and has its uses.

 

On the outer level, when observed, it leads to self-control. Self-control is a virtue for those who place emphasis on developing focus and concentration.

 

On the inner level, it develops, as you say, spirit, or in some Buddhist traditions, they use the term 'clarity', or 'wisdom suffused with compassion'.

 

On the innermost level, some say the practice fuses the practitioner with his or her own divine self, others say mystic union with the Divine is attained, leading to a sort of cosmic flowering, where an unmistakable sense of oneness is experienced. In some Buddhist traditions, it is believed that abstinence from mundane sex occurs naturally when one has practiced enough so as to quell habitual traits that arise from dualistic tendencies, achieved thru various modes and stages of esoteric experimentations. With respect to Dzogchen though, there are no strict guidelines pertaining to abstinence or celibacy.

 

Its not quite as straightforward as the term 'denial' would suggest. And denial in itself does not lead to suffering - one can work with the process gradually, without struggle. What has been labelled 'denial' can be seen simply as the withdrawing of the senses, or turning inwards, to achieve transcendence (alchemical transformation), similar to some schools referencing the raising of spirit to higher planes or dimensions.

[MooNiNite]

depends how attracted a person is to sex. i bet nikola tesla did it

[MooNiNite]

 

such a beautiful reminder

Edited October 19, 2014 by MooNiNite

[ganjaboy]

Agreed with the above, I now think complete celibacy is unnecessary and perhaps destructive. By restricting such a natural impulse so harshly it gives it more power and importance, which is anti-Dao. Dao would have it that sex like anything is just a leaf, or perhaps a pretty flower floating in the river...yep, it's there, yep it's nice....and there it goes!

 

I don't know how to describe it but increasingly I am becoming more and more disinterested in sex. This began once I started consuming certain...er...herbs.....and doing more and more deep meditation into myself. At once the shortcomings of the physical became clear to me, and I was disgusted with myself for putting so much stock in them formerly.

 

These realizations seem necessary to anyone who is trying to have a deep, meaningful relationship. I'm looking for one at the present. I think that the girl I am looking for should be able to embody different personalities at different times....sometimes motherly, platonic level, mature caring and concern...other times more sexy lover. I should be able to do the same and I think this is normal and healthy.

 

I feel myself not being attracted to women sexually as much. I like girls who are pretty and have a nice personality, or who just are interesting wholesome individuals. I am getting closer to seeing women as equal partners on the path to enlightenment. Gender seems an illusion to me. I am more interested in manifestations of true love, beauty and transcendence in this world.

 

Lol, there I go sounding like a stoned hippie... but I think it's a good place to be at a karmic level

Edited November 7, 2014 by dhiggs

[silent thunder]

I'd like to share something that happened last night while making love with my gal.

 

I had a powerful release of energy during orgasm that channeled up the Du, then the sensation was quite different than what I expected, I could feel the pulse of the energy completing the cycle, though it wasn't going down my Ren channel, it was going down hers and then back up my Du channel. There was more going on, but I was no able to focus on the minutia.

 

The cycle continued for about 20 heartbeats before subsiding like a wave and mellowing in intensity.

 

I have found that there is no loss of energy when I'm engaging in love with my gal and after some study on it, my suspicion is that it links back to the foundation of my practice. Not losing the energy may be related to our heart centers being open and to the link established in two open people in an energetic cycle. Kind heart, quiet heart, sincere heart, opens the valves and channels. When two are linked this way, the cycle will manifest in various ways through both while engaging in the intention to share love, joy and pleasure.

 

As I've said before, I find nothing wrong with celibacy. Both my wife and I have naturally practiced it for months on end at times when it was natural to do so... however, I find it a fallacy to believe that all acts of love making result in a loss of jing and energy. My teacher confirmed this suspicion in so far as he was able to... at 81 or 82 he and his wife engage a couple times a week on average and he's thriving. Works healing and teaching 10 hours a day and never gets sick...

 

More and more, I'm finding no use for the judgements of my self and others. My greatest rewards come from love and then being able to express that love and even more importantly, openly receive that love from others. This charges my system and brings my vibrations very high, where few things can knock me off center...

[ganjaboy]

I have found that there is no loss of energy when I'm engaging in love with my gal and after some study on it, my suspicion is that it links back to the foundation of my practice. Not losing the energy may be related to our heart centers being open and to the link established in two open people in an energetic cycle.

That sounds great. Yeah, I eventually concluded that the loss of energy thing is only as much of an issue as you make it. I don't like to orgasm often but when I do I make sure that I replenish the energy from both the Jing and the heart centers, but since i'm young, that doesn't take a lot of time.

 

I made love last week with a girl I know, and I'd have to say that it was a good thing. It helped to dispel a lot of the sexual energy / celibacy / cultivation OCD that has tended to fog my brain. I think that sometimes experience is the most important thing, and I'm glad that I was able to find someone who wanted to share pleasure through sex. It may have not been as deep at a spiritual level as would be possible through a long-term relationship, but it definitely had its place. I'm young, and I feel like if I didn't as least live it up sometimes, I would be pretty regretful by the time I was an old man.

Edited November 15, 2014 by dhiggs