Breath pacer recommendations?

[liminal_luke]

I'm interested in working with my breath more, and wondering if anybody has any breath pacer recommendations, either stand alone devices or an app. Already have a Resperate but find it cumbersome to use. Is there something out there with sound cues (so that I don't need to be looking at a screen) and very customizable in terms of breaths per minute?

 

Thanks, Liminal

 

 

[silent thunder]

How about a Metronome?

[liminal_luke]

Might work Silent Thunder. I think most of them play too many beats per minute but it's certainly an option to consider.

[soaring crane]

I don't know if I'd use it for breathing but there's a wonderful app called zazen meditation app for Android. It's free and just really top drawer stuff

[silent thunder]

Might work Silent Thunder. I think most of them play too many beats per minute but it's certainly an option to consider.

yea, I was looking to see what the lowest settings were...

 

there must be something out there, if not, you just birthed it in intention, it'll show up soon

[liminal_luke]

Turns out the metronome idea works great. I thought it wouldn't be slow enough but on webmetronome.com you can set it up to accent every 4th beat. That way I inhale for 4 beats and exhale for 4 beats. Works great.

 

Soaring Crane--thanks for the recommendation of the Zazen meditation app. Will check it out.

 

Liminal

[Aetherous]

Baolin Wu, a qigong teacher, recommends to use your own pulse...inhale for 4, exhale for 4 (no matter what the bpm is). Kind of cool to sync the breath to the heart.

[joeblast]

Given that I've hit so many of the exact same road signs at various durations of breath, its every bit as much what techniques you are using. (i.e.....turning the light around... everything happens at shorter breath duration. And given that the feedback of breathrate feeds back into the heart beat....

[silent thunder]

Baolin Wu, a qigong teacher, recommends to use your own pulse...inhale for 4, exhale for 4 (no matter what the bpm is). Kind of cool to sync the breath to the heart.

I use this method on long hikes.

Six count in, six count out.

Walk all day like that...

[liminal_luke]

Joeblast,

 

I'm a little confused. Do you think there's value in training to slow down the breath rate? At the moment my goals are more to stimulate the parasympathetic nervous system and just generally ratchet myself down a bit (blood pressure, heart rate, anxiety). I set the metronome so I'm breathing at 5 bpm, which is pretty easy for me right now but also feels therapeutic in terms of calming down. Figured I would work at gradually slowing down from there.

 

I'd like to see if I can get down to a breath a minute or so. Do you think this is a worthwhile goal, or am I going off on a tangent?

 

Thanks for any thoughts you'd like to share.

 

Liminal

[thelerner]

I think its a worthwhile goal. Not an easy one though. In Ki-Aikido we had a breathing exercise that went for about a minute, usually less when the sensei was being nice. It probably took me a couple years before I was comfortable with it. The advantage is it greatly slows down thought and body functions. Once you can do it comfortably it can bring a great sense of peace, til then it can feel like asphyxiation!, so in learning its okay to cheat. Breath when you gotta, even as a short intake to keep the pace going and get back on track.

 

A big advantage of long breath is your normal everyday unconscious breath will get longer as you practice longer breathing. Thus more oxygen and more efficient, full body breathing.

 

Start easy, with 8-8 then go on. I use Chris Eckister CD from Silent Grounds. It has tone from 8-8 moving up to 48-48 that you can put into your mp3 on rewind and as you gain the breath cycle you can move it up to 10-10 (20 seconds) then 12-12 etc., There are many apps for it too. I like Insight Timer.

[子泰]

no need to pace yourself

[joeblast]

Joeblast,

 

I'm a little confused. Do you think there's value in training to slow down the breath rate? At the moment my goals are more to stimulate the parasympathetic nervous system and just generally ratchet myself down a bit (blood pressure, heart rate, anxiety). I set the metronome so I'm breathing at 5 bpm, which is pretty easy for me right now but also feels therapeutic in terms of calming down. Figured I would work at gradually slowing down from there.

 

I'd like to see if I can get down to a breath a minute or so. Do you think this is a worthwhile goal, or am I going off on a tangent?

 

Thanks for any thoughts you'd like to share.

 

Liminal

Absolutely. But here's the caveat: its not linear. How long your breaths actually are, in seconds, is an ancillary aspect of the jem, here. Do you think the addition of knowledge of how long the breath duration for is in seconds will really help you? To whatever extent that knowledge brings you comfort, I suppose Having said that, I did have some measure of personal satisfaction in taking periodic measurement in the past and unequivocally proven to myself that I was well over a minute; minute ten or a minute fifteen, whatever, past that point it was getting too much of a pain to measure breath duration myself and I stopped doing it. But having life's events mess that potential, it provided me with a little insight on having gone back near those levels in another bunch of sections of practice-timeline, because the techniques werent 100% exactly the same, i.e. when you know how to turn the light around well, it makes things happen at shorter duration. But the light didnt manifest so unambiguously until I had gotten there first, so go figure.

 

I believe the intent to lengthen breaths is important, one just has to know they are mitigating the body's feedback mechanisms and one can only push for so much progress per given unit of practice time, lest those feedbacks come knock you back. So if you do feel the need to measure (and it gets harder to do so when deeper without breaking concentration or losing the state) go ahead but dont overuse it, just measure periodically, because the very best feedback is what streams right into your awareness, it will tell you all you really need to know. The numbers are just to satisfy some curiosity

Edited October 12, 2014 by joeblast

[liminal_luke]

Thanks Joeblast. That was very helpful. I'm somewhat of a measurement junkie, and I do think it helps keep me motivated and engaged, but can also be detrimental when it becomes somewhat of a neurotic fixation. Not so very different, perhaps, from the way I use my pedometer. The point is just to go for a walk.

 

Liminal

[dust]

No expert here, so I will definitely be taking this all into account.

 

What I've been doing recently is using a mala to count breaths (usually around half the beads, ~54) and breathing as slowly and deeply as possible, then seeing how long it has taken, and calculating breaths per minute from that. (It means I'm not fixating on holding a breath for longer than I should be, but am progressively slowing with each session. I'm now comfortable at ~one breath every 45 seconds.)

 

At risk of taking this off on a tangent, why do my eyes water when I slow my breathing like this?

Edited October 12, 2014 by dustybeijing

[joeblast]

“Measurement is the first step that leads to control and eventually to improvement. If you can’t measure something, you can’t understand it. If you can’t understand it, you can’t control it. If you can’t control it, you can’t improve it.”

― H. James Harrington

 

Measurement doesnt always mean numbers on a stick though. These days I just go by what roadsigns appear and I can tell decently well where I am.

 

Dusty...describe how that happens just a little bit more before I answer (like things leading to it)

[dust]

 

Dusty...describe how that happens just a little bit more before I answer (like things leading to it)

 

Well.. sitting (upright either in a chair or in half-lotus), slowing breath, looking forwards, and counting each breath on the mala. Trying to focus on the breaths. I keep eyes open (not constantly of course -- blinking as usual) as I've found closing them actually distracts me more.

 

After a few breaths (it's gradual, but maybe after 10 or so) I notice water coming up in my eyes as if I were crying. It increases to the point that I have to blink it out and then wipe it away a good few times before the end of the "session".

 

It is (as far as I'm aware) entirely unemotional. I'm not actually crying, as I would with sadness or laughter (my eyes do also water when I laugh heavily).

Edited October 12, 2014 by dustybeijing

[joeblast]

dig up taoist yoga and read about the slow fire exercise the tears are a purification "for there is no other outlet"....I get that also. but usually because of specific things I do, a certain lower, upper, center channel tweak and....zzzzing! I can feel the overflow in yangming.

[thelerner]

my eyes tear, my nose does too, thus showing another outlet.

[joeblast]

ditto, but there was something about the mention of the tears....what the heck did I do with that book again

[silent thunder]

far out... I had wondered if there was something to the watering eyes during practice... just figured it was an off-shoot of allergies, but my allergies have nearly disappeared in the last few years.

[Aetherous]

Tears and the eyes are related to the Liver.

[Spotless]

 

Well.. sitting (upright either in a chair or in half-lotus), slowing breath, looking forwards, and counting each breath on the mala. Trying to focus on the breaths. I keep eyes open (not constantly of course -- blinking as usual) as I've found closing them actually distracts me more.

 

After a few breaths (it's gradual, but maybe after 10 or so) I notice water coming up in my eyes as if I were crying. It increases to the point that I have to blink it out and then wipe it away a good few times before the end of the "session".

 

It is (as far as I'm aware) entirely unemotional. I'm not actually crying, as I would with sadness or laughter (my eyes do also water when I laugh heavily).

This is energy releasing - I typically either use a Kleenex from time to time or just end up with salt cakes on my cheeks. This typically subsides after awhile. Often when it starts the nose also runs.

Sometimes you will be yawning very frequently and this is also releasing energy.

 

All of these things tend to fall away after the first 30 minutes or so and they are all good signs that you are "in meditation".

Edited October 14, 2014 by Spotless

[Spotless]

If you are in meditation and you begin to drift - sometimes rapid shallow breathing can be very wakeful and help you to stay in the center of your head. This is also good for getting over a hump of unconscious energy and this may feel like sleepiness or you may become anxious - in either case this rapid shallow breathing can be very helpful.

[dust]

Tears and the eyes are related to the Liver.

 

This is what my sister tells me (she's an acupuncture student)

It seems that everything going on in my body is related to liver qi stagnation!

 

 

 

This is energy releasing - I typically either use a Kleenex from time to time or just end up with salt cakes on my cheeks. This typically subsides after awhile. Often when it starts the nose also runs.

Sometimes you will be yawning very frequently and this is also releasing energy.

 

All of these things tend to fall away after the first 30 minutes or so and they are all good signs that you are "in meditation".

 

Yes, the yawning also. Well I'm glad these symptoms are normal and possibly even beneficial!