Atheism as a religion

[Rara]

But I don't work and I have only enough money to serve my needs and occasionally the needs of others.

 

You can't use that as a basket for Atheists.

I know plenty of atheists and "secular meditators"...also not addicted to work/money

 

Perhaps you should create your own sect? Hehe

[Marblehead]

 

Perhaps you should create your own sect? Hehe

Funny, funny, funny.

 

Did we forget that I am an Anarchist as well?

 

I do so much love that Albert Camus quote: (I paraphrase)

 

Don't try to lead as I likely won't follow,

Don't try to follow as I wish not to lead.

Just walk with me and be my friend.

[Rara]

 

Well..I think that we have to assume certain things to be factual in order to function. If we question whether or not we're really thinking/existing/breathing etc, we question ourselves to the point that our own actions become meaningless.

 

That said, I'm sure someone cleverer than me could make a convincing argument for why we're not actually breathing.. a Solipsist might say that he's the only one breathing; an Idealist might say that we can't be sure that anything outside of thought (including our own physical presence?) isn't pure imagination.

 

But like I said, I think this way of thinking is fairly useless... whether it's true or not, I'm experiencing breathing, so I might as well accept it as fact.

 

There are things that have been believed to be factual and have been found false, such as that the Sun orbits the Earth, or that chemical elements' atomic weights are always the same.

And there are things which are held only as beliefs but might well be factual...but I couldn't give examples...could be anything...

Precisely.

 

This is why I originally stated that belief and fact are very different things

 

One can believe something is fact even if it is BS. This is usually because that belief brings that person comfort in some respect.

 

Imagine this: Person A (I do this sort of scenario thing a lot) commits a horrible crime like sexual assault. When he is arrested, there is not enough evidence to support claims that it was him (perhaps he was masked, it just sounded like him to the victim...maybe she knew him)

 

The police let him go. His wife, Person B, is distraught, but chooses to stand by her man. She is without the facts and therefore chooses to believe he is innocent.

 

This allows Person B to put all her doubts to one side and live on with person A in some sort of happiness from there on.

 

So yes, some people even believe something to be fact. I am obsessed now with finding sources/evidence for claims...it appears to be the best way to get close to facts.

 

Admittedly though, it is hard to find many.

Edited October 17, 2014 by Rara

[Rara]

Yes, I was wondering after that last post. Hehehe.

I'm laid in bed having a "sick day". Bizarre how much it affects my personality...

 

Today I can throw a consistent argument together. I must be on the mend.

 

Not that gay people are broken, that is.

 

Dammit! Why can't I stop rambling about homosexuality?!

[sasblamthanb]

Seen while surfin ...

 

"I don't have enough faith to be an Atheist"

 

[Marblehead]

I'm laid in bed having a "sick day". Bizarre how much it affects my personality...

 

Today I can throw a consistent argument together. I must be on the mend.

 

Not that gay people are broken, that is.

 

Dammit! Why can't I stop rambling about homosexuality?!

I used to have that problem too. I am straight and always have been and always will be. But many years ago I learned that it is actually a physical thing with some people and they can do nothing about it except be what they are.

 

We must allow others to be what they are. It is natures way, not something determined by the mind of man.

[Marblehead]

Seen while surfin ...

 

"I don't have enough faith to be an Atheist"

 

In a way that could be a sound assessment.

 

 

Edit to add:

 

But I would prefer the word "trust" rather than "faith".

Edited October 17, 2014 by Marblehead

[Rara]

I used to have that problem too. I am straight and always have been and always will be. But many years ago I learned that it is actually a physical thing with some people and they can do nothing about it except be what they are.

 

We must allow others to be what they are. It is natures way, not something determined by the mind of man.

I do have this feeling of something calling me back, saying "dude, stop faking it"

 

Like my spiritual explorations were, in some way, only able to keep me a certain way for a short while. Maybe it was just a role play to help me fit in with a new group. To allow me to explore ideas. Or as my mum would say, "a phase".

 

My flavour this month..."I know what I am".

 

And I can be a bit beastly. But hey, at least I know this now. It's sorta comforting.

[Rara]

That was in reference to me self-correcting myself in case my comments are deemed homophobic.

 

The real me is in my head saying "what did you do that for? You don't need to explain yourself of be politically correct. It's not you!"

Edited October 17, 2014 by Rara

[Marblehead]

That was in reference to me self-correcting myself in case my comments are deemed homophobic.

 

The real me is in my head saying "what did you do that for? You don't need to explain yourself of be politically correct. It's not you!"

Yeah, but oftentimes explanation prevent misunderstandings. I really don't like people misunderstanding me. No problem if they don't agree with me but I like to know that they understand what they are disagreeing against.

[Rara]

Yeah, but oftentimes explanation prevent misunderstandings. I really don't like people misunderstanding me. No problem if they don't agree with me but I like to know that they understand what they are disagreeing against.

Sure, I get that...as far as debating goes, we need to be clear what we mean.

 

That said, I feel a lot of the time it's tiring to tag "btw, that was a joke" on the end of everything mildly risque that I say.

 

Who's problem is it if they take offence? Is it the offender or the listener that happens to be a little more uptight?

[Marblehead]

Yeah, I use "Hehehe" a lot. Just trying to make sure those who read what I post understand that I joke around a lot.

 

Really, it is always the offender who is at fault. Had we not said anything no one would have been offended.

 

But then, there are some who, if another does not respond to them they will feel offended. (If you get married try ignoring what your wife says. You'll be sleeping on the couch.)

 

Therefore, IMO, it is the speaker who is always in error when there is a fault considered.

[Rara]

Yeah, I use "Hehehe" a lot. Just trying to make sure those who read what I post understand that I joke around a lot.

 

Really, it is always the offender who is at fault. Had we not said anything no one would have been offended.

 

But then, there are some who, if another does not respond to them they will feel offended. (If you get married try ignoring what your wife says. You'll be sleeping on the couch.)

 

Therefore, IMO, it is the speaker who is always in error when there is a fault considered.

Yep. I use a lot of "hehe" "lol" etc. I did read somewhere that it indicates insecurity!

 

About the offender/offended, that's interesting, but I feel it is more variable than that. I have something to raise on this but will do so in "Off-Topic" once I get the chance

[Marblehead]

Yep. I use a lot of "hehe" "lol" etc. I did read somewhere that it indicates insecurity!

This is actually a valid concept in the "real world".

 

About the offender/offended, that's interesting, but I feel it is more variable than that. I have something to raise on this but will do so in "Off-Topic" once I get the chance

Might be an interesting discussion.

[zerostao]

 

Prophesy, or was perhaps his mantra the cause?

 

I wonder some times to whom John Lennon was referring to as "they", in "Working class hero" ...

Enough to raise the snake for many.

prophecy or cause in an interchangeable way perhaps?(surreal synchronicity) Working Class Hero is a powerful song , isnt it?

so many have covered that song. i think the version found on Broken English is downright masterful and works in tandem with the title song(Broken English) perfectly speaking to "they" and they keep us all doped on religion, sex, on the tv. i wont post either yt presentation on this thread but i will in off topic anarchy. messages found it these two songs get swept away quickly by "they" and they are fine either way if we choose to believe in religion or atheism, both keep the status quo. the ones that question is who they fear

[Marblehead]

... the ones that question is who they fear

Therefore question everything and watch them squirm.

[manitou]

So late to come to the conversation, so I'm sorry if this has been said before; I didn't read all 12 pages.

 

Someone earlier said that children are born atheists. How do we know about that? It takes years and years of self-realization and 'path' study to arrive at the conclusions we have today. So perhaps we finally get our minds back to the point where they were when we were first out of the womb; a mind of innocence and non judgment.

 

Maybe a child isn't an atheist at all. Maybe he thinks he's all powerful because he 'knows' of what he is truly a part. The unlearning and separation begins when the structure is imposed on the child.

 

I find it interesting that folks that like to call themselves Atheists will sometimes spend much time and energy 'proving the negative.' If there were nothing inside to prove against, why waste the energy?. On the other hand, I'm guessing an avowed Atheist is one who would more readily believe that he is part of the One (and, as such, is 'God') than one who has a firmly entrenched religious structure to break down.

[Marblehead]

Welcome to the thread. Its subtitle is "Sharp Shoot Marblehead if you can."

 

Interesting points Manitou. Yes, the concept of a child having an "empty" brain when born has been discussed. (This is not totally true as we are born with certain instincts imprinted in our brain already when we are born.)

 

But yes, it is fair to state that a new-born is an Atheist because it has not yet learned all the illusions and delusions and bald-face lies that are taught to us as we grow.

 

And I agree that this is the reason Taoism suggests that we return to the state of the new-born babe. Empty our brain of all the trash, which most of it is, and just live based on our natural instincts. And really, just instincts seem to serve most other life species very well (if humans would stop killing them).

[iain]

Hello Manitou nice to meet you,

Maybe a child isn't an atheist at all. Maybe he thinks he's all powerful because he 'knows' of what he is truly a part. The unlearning and separation begins when the structure is imposed on the child.

I agree with this totally, people seem to obsess with the words and categorizing of things, an illusion is built from these bricks, though this illusion protects and unites us, it is also of these bricks that we can build a false impression of what God actually is. It is silly of me; I still squirm whilst saying the word "God". I grew up in a fanatical atheist environment.

 

I think that if you listen carefully; you can hear a young child's connection to God in His or Her speech and very nature.

Welcome to the thread. Its subtitle is "Sharp Shoot Marblehead if you can."

I'm sorry, did somebody step on your dharma?

... But yes, it is fair to state that a new-born is an Atheist because it has not yet learned all the illusions and delusions and bald-face lies that are taught to us as we grow..

To my mind this statement is highly indicative of a limit in your current understanding of God, with all due respect I feel that you may be mistaking the pot for the water.

Edited October 18, 2014 by iain

[zerostao]

my take on this thread is that we should not have arrived at any conclusions manitou.

too much enfolded not unfolded yet for conclusions. we should keep questioning as mh points out.

and mh when one is at the top they (not the "they" mentioned but in this case you) become a target

 

edit>> spelling and to add i never try to piss anyone off, i do try to let folks see in a different light,

perhaps brighter, perhaps grayer, idk really

Edited October 18, 2014 by zerostao

[Marblehead]

 

and mh when one is at the top they (not the "they" mentioned but in this case you) become a target

Hehehe. Yeah, I am happy. People don't like that. Will do everything in their power to piss me off. (But I make them work for it.)

[iain]

Hello zerostao

prophecy or cause in an interchangeable way perhaps?(surreal synchronicity) Working Class Hero is a powerful song , isnt it?

so many have covered that song. i think the version found on Broken English is downright masterful and works in tandem with the title song(Broken English) perfectly speaking to "they" and they keep us all doped on religion, sex, on the tv. i wont post either yt presentation on this thread but i will in off topic anarchy. messages found it these two songs get swept away quickly by "they" and they are fine either way if we choose to believe in religion or atheism, both keep the status quo. the ones that question is who they fear

It is a very powerful song, I love to sing it. You can really put the energy into that one; without even trying.

The thing is that people will got to crazy extremes to protect their perception of life, and music as a medium touches people at the deepest level.

Edited October 18, 2014 by iain

[Marblehead]

Well, I think it is only fair that we listen to the song:

 

 

 

[manitou]

Not sure all my 'maybe's' are conclusions, Zerostao.

[iain]

Not sure all my 'maybe's' are conclusions, Zerostao.

 

You sound perhaps Agnostic manitou; a fine philosophical addition to the theo; atheo; logical debate ...