Atheism as a religion

[Marblehead]

And the thing about Agnosticism is that it allows for the full range of spiritual concepts.

[manitou]

Since y'all asked....

 

The way I look at it is that I'm all of it and none of it. I ride the commonalities of all the worlds religions and don't find sway with any of them. I am self realized through long term alcohol recovery and have found the I Am consciousness through peeling through multiple layers of the Self; this is called the direct process of self realization. This peeling process started 33 years ago. I fully embrace the understanding of the DDJ and have found understanding by triangulating with my very distant vision. Some would call it an extra eye.

 

Marbles, I wonder about the usage of your statement Spiritual Concepts. These things, concepts, are of the Head. When the true path of the Heart is found, your path will take you into your own true true self, and your knowledge will become gnowledge. It is then that any of us become able to speak with authority about deep things, of the Inner Knowledge that resides within us all. But we must get down to the heart of ourselves to find it. It is through shedding our biases, our opinions, our oversized egos - until this is done, the glass will always be stained.

 

I'm not looking for spiritual concepts. What I'm doing right now is channeling. I don't much care if anybody believes me or not.

[Marblehead]

Marbles, I wonder about the usage of your statement Spiritual Concepts. These things, concepts, are of the Head. When the true path of the Heart is found, your path will take you into your own true true self, and your knowledge will become gnowledge. It is then that any of us become able to speak with authority about deep things, of the Inner Knowledge that resides within us all. But we must get down to the heart of ourselves to find it. It is through shedding our biases, our opinions, our oversized egos - until this is done, the glass will always be stained.

I used that term, "spiritual concepts", very loosely. For me, and my understanding of Taoism, there is "yo", which is the manifest universe, and there is "wu", which is the unmanifest, the spiritual.

 

One can never speak with authority regarding "wu". This is because it is not the same for everyone. Some miss it completely, others get lost in it. But whatever the experience, it is personal. One shoe does not fit all feet.

 

My heart is what pumps my blood. That's all a heart does for anyone. All the concept work is done in the brain.

 

No need to shed opinions, no need to shed our biases, no need to shed ego. These are things that make our life work. Again, one shoe doesn't fit all feet.

 

Sure, some might need to lessen or strengthen their biases, opinions and ego. But even this is not the same for everyone.

 

And I will suggest that if one can find peace and contentment in the "yo" state there is little need for searching within the "wu" state. In other words, there would be little need for spirituality.

[manitou]

There is need to shed biases, opinions, and master ego. Until a person understands this, freedom cannot be attained.

[Marblehead]

There is need to shed biases, opinions, and master ego. Until a person understands this, freedom cannot be attained.

I guess I will remain imprisoned by your opinion.

[Owledge]

 

My heart is what pumps my blood. That's all a heart does for anyone. All the concept work is done in the brain.

From a certain viewpoint, heart and mind are one. But the metaphor "heart" is useful for conveying a certain idea. We need to agree on a certain language to communicate.

Anything that the heart is more than just a metaphor or body organ is likely ideas manifest through collective consciousness (like metaphor and body organ kinda is, too, haha).

[Marblehead]

From a certain viewpoint, heart and mind are one. But the metaphor "heart" is useful for conveying a certain idea. We need to agree on a certain language to communicate.

Anything that the heart is more than just a metaphor or body organ is likely ideas manifest through collective consciousness (like metaphor and body organ kinda is, too, haha).

Yeah, I usually use "mind" rather than "heart" but then I just recently told someone here that I have no mind because I couldn't find one. A brain I have. Our heart responds to our emotions more that any other part of our body so I do understand the usage of "heart".

 

And I do still use the word "mind" when using the word "brain" isn't sufficient to express what I want to present.

 

Oh!, and I use the word "gut" as well. Now really, who has their brain stuck in their gut somewhere?

[iain]

Hello there,

From a certain viewpoint, heart and mind are one. But the metaphor "heart" is useful for conveying a certain idea. We need to agree on a certain language to communicate.

Anything that the heart is more than just a metaphor or body organ is likely ideas manifest through collective consciousness (like metaphor and body organ kinda is, too, haha).

I was just going to quote the very same line, adding that this can also been seen from a scientific point of view too ...

 

My heart is what pumps my blood. That's all a heart does for anyone. All the concept work is done in the brain.

 

How can you be certain of this Marblehead; it is rather a sweeping statement.

The lineage that I am studying teaches that we reside spread across the whole of the body via the nadi, through which prana travels; of particular importance is the soul which is found just off set from the heart. The whole body being an interface for consciousness.

From a more recent scientific perspective, all of the following is testable or rather has been tested; The human heart is a proper little dynamo; whilst giving an electrical charge to the blood, the heart it's self; containing a massive cluster of neurons, has an electric field about it that is perceivable up to 2 meters away.

The heart and stomach have been found to have one polarity while all other organs the reverses, like little batteries, you could quite reasonably from this argue that we think with our stomachs.

Some highly interesting accounts from recipients of heart transplants any something like 1 in 10, experience some very drastic personality changes, not only that but the changes resemble traits of the donor.

 

Please watch this short film if you are interested; it is quite fascinating:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIDwRnBcrGw

Edited October 21, 2014 by iain

[iain]

Oh!, and I use the word "gut" as well. Now really, who has their brain stuck in their gut somewhere?

 

Now really, who has their brain stuck in their gut somewhere? Hummmm ...

 

 

Many of our our chemical neuro transmitters are made here, serotonin particularly, so reflecting upon how serotonin effects the way we think, that it is made in the stomach then: QED must be applicable here.

Edited October 21, 2014 by iain

[Marblehead]

How can you be certain of this Marblehead; it is rather a sweeping statement.

 

I can do it because I am very opinionated. And, I have seen nothing to cause me to think otherwise. Oh, sure, I've heard the stories. And I used to read Greek Mythology. And I used to believe in both because I needed something to believe in.

 

I no longer have that need. I believe in physical reality as my brain perceives it. More than enough there for me to believe in. And that physical reality is good enough for me. I don't need any super duper whatevers. All the fairy tales stayed at my birth place when I joined the Army. And although I have returned to my birthplace many time I never encountered any of the fairy tales creatures.

[Marblehead]

The whole body being an interface for consciousness.

 

I have actually made a statement similar to that in referring to what the mind is. The reason we cannot put our finger on our mind is because it is our entire nervous system including our brain.

 

 

Edit to add:

 

I can't speak to the rest of your post as I do not have the knowledge to do so. However, I have previously stated that we all have our own personal Chi (energy). And I have suggested that this Chi can be altered in many ways. (Healers use this concept in some form for their work.)

Edited October 21, 2014 by Marblehead

[Marblehead]

 

Now really, who has their brain stuck in their gut somewhere? Hummmm ...

 

 

Many of our our chemical neuro transmitters are made here, serotonin particularly, so reflecting upon how serotonin effects the way we think, that it is made in the stomach then: QED must be applicable here.

Yeah, but I can't go too far with this thought as I do not have the knowledge to do so.

[Rara]

Welcome to the thread. Its subtitle is "Sharp Shoot Marblehead if you can."

 

Interesting points Manitou. Yes, the concept of a child having an "empty" brain when born has been discussed. (This is not totally true as we are born with certain instincts imprinted in our brain already when we are born.)

 

But yes, it is fair to state that a new-born is an Atheist because it has not yet learned all the illusions and delusions and bald-face lies that are taught to us as we grow.

 

And I agree that this is the reason Taoism suggests that we return to the state of the new-born babe. Empty our brain of all the trash, which most of it is, and just live based on our natural instincts. And really, just instincts seem to serve most other life species very well (if humans would stop killing them).

 

 

Then there's "Taoism as a religion"...

 

[Marblehead]

Then there's "Taoism as a religion"...

 

Hehehe. I don't talk about that much. Actually, Atheists don't talk about religions much at all.

[Rara]

 

To my mind this statement is highly indicative of a limit in your current understanding of God, with all due respect I feel that you may be mistaking the pot for the water.

What is your current understanding of God?

[Rara]

Hello there,

 

I was just going to quote the very same line, adding that this can also been seen from a scientific point of view too ...

 

 

 

How can you be certain of this Marblehead; it is rather a sweeping statement.

The lineage that I am studying teaches that we reside spread across the whole of the body via the nadi, through which prana travels; of particular importance is the soul which is found just off set from the heart. The whole body being an interface for consciousness.

From a more recent scientific perspective, all of the following is testable or rather has been tested; The human heart is a proper little dynamo; whilst giving an electrical charge to the blood, the heart it's self; containing a massive cluster of neurons, has an electric field about it that is perceivable up to 2 meters away.

The heart and stomach have been found to have one polarity while all other organs the reverses, like little batteries, you could quite reasonably from this argue that we think with our stomachs.

Some highly interesting accounts from recipients of heart transplants any something like 1 in 10, experience some very drastic personality changes, not only that but the changes resemble traits of the donor.

 

Please watch this short film if you are interested; it is quite fascinating:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIDwRnBcrGw

I'm sorry, but this is just mumbo jumbo.

[Owledge]

 

All the fairy tales stayed at my birth place when I joined the Army. And although I have returned to my birthplace many time I never encountered any of the fairy tales creatures.

This is how the military kills the magic. ;-)

[Marblehead]

This is how the military kills the magic. ;-)

Hehehe. Belly laughs. No dear, the military had nothing to do with it.

 

Have I mentioned that I don't believe in magic either?

[Owledge]

Hehehe. Belly laughs. No dear, the military had nothing to do with it.

 

Have I mentioned that I don't believe in magic either?

What is it that you call magic?

[Marblehead]

What is it that you call magic?

Fair question.

 

Magic is a performed action where only the performer knows how it was done. The viewer has no idea how it was done and even believe it could not be done without the use of some super power or ability.

 

I actually have two different classifications for magic.

 

The first is the Las Vegas type. This is amazing. Yes. But this can be easily explained by one who is knowledgeable of such things.

 

The other is the VooDoo type. Here one has to believe it can happen in order for it to happen. This is basically a mind-altering event.

 

Both can be used for good or for evil. But there is nothing supernatural about it. Sure, it takes a person with special skills to make it work. But that not supernatural either - just special.

[Owledge]

Fair question.

 

Magic is a performed action where only the performer knows how it was done. The viewer has no idea how it was done and even believe it could not be done without the use of some super power or ability.

 

I actually have two different classifications for magic.

 

The first is the Las Vegas type. This is amazing. Yes. But this can be easily explained by one who is knowledgeable of such things.

 

The other is the VooDoo type. Here one has to believe it can happen in order for it to happen. This is basically a mind-altering event.

 

Both can be used for good or for evil. But there is nothing supernatural about it. Sure, it takes a person with special skills to make it work. But that not supernatural either - just special.

And now, what do you mean with the statement that you don't "believe" in those?

[Marblehead]

And now, what do you mean with the statement that you don't "believe" in those?

Yes, and that is a good question.

 

(My definitions.)

 

To believe - to rationalize and determine a thing's, or a concept's validity.

 

Validity - that an idea or a thing stands to tests to determine physical (or mental) existence.

(I added the (or mental) part for you mostly.)

 

 

So, basically, if one "believes" in Voodoo it will work on them (as long as they know what is being done to them). I don't believe in Voodoo therefore it would not work on me.

 

One cannot see Elvis in a cloud if one does not believe Elvis is in a cloud. The non-believers would see a cloud; believers would see Elvis.

 

My chair has always served the purpose it was designed to serve. I believe it will serve its designed purpose the next time I sit on it.

 

To believe is simply to accept something as being valid. It is a pure mental function and nothing more.

[Owledge]

If I just point out that you show mental confusion there, do you see what I'm hinting at?

Edited October 21, 2014 by Owledge

[iain]

I'm sorry, but this is just mumbo jumbo.

 

I'm sorry that you did not understand my post; of course it makes good sense to me; would you perhaps like a more succinct explanation? I am sure that I can make one ...

 

Which part did you not understand?

Edited October 21, 2014 by iain

[iain]

I can't speak to the rest of your post as I do not have the knowledge to do so. However, I have previously stated that we all have our own personal Chi (energy). And I have suggested that this Chi can be altered in many ways. (Healers use this concept in some form for their work.)

 

 

Hey, you dont need to say a word; I thought that you might find it interesting. I loved your info on "Wu" & "Yo", I didn't have time to mention this morning.

 

This is all new language for me, about similar ideas so it is quite fascinating; Are they perhaps similar to objective and subjective thought, or maybe closer to material non material; I am intrigued.