The Killer Instinct

[z00se]

Just thought i'd ask for some advice regarding killer instinct. I've never had it.

 

My 3 n a half year old son got pushed over by a smaller kid at daycare 3x on separate occasions. He tells me he runs off to the teacher and the teacher puts the bad kid in the naughty corner, and it seems it pleases him, but i'm trying to teach him that the teacher won't always be there and he needs to stand on his own 2 feet. It can stop it happening in the future.

 

Another girl pushed him over once, it mustn't have been nice because he's more animate about that instance, however i told him that because she only did it once, maybe it was an accident. Who knows i wasn't there, maybe he has become an easy target. He's changed centers and he's only been going to this daycare for about a month, 2 days a week.

 

When i was a very little tacker i was similar position many times, probably a little too kind natured. I told him that if this boy has done it 3 times it's ok if my son goes in the naughty corner 1 or 2 times for standing up for himself but obviously he is scared about not doing what is seen as right by the teacher

 

I can understand from my own experience when i was younger that he wouldn't want to make the teacher angry, or go against the way things are praised by those around him. These are low level things, however very important in my opinion, he hasn't yet had the chance to develop his ability to argue through reason and i guess physical force is the only way out. I understand that often the discussion in here is of a very high level, but in his instance i feel high level dialog is not what is needed. The tao is all levels.

 

How do you get that killer instinct, if you've ever had it? Anger gives it to me, but i've been that angry very few times and i probably keep it in too much so that when i finally let it go it's too strong and gets me in trouble. What are the feelings, emotions, or internal thoughts that makes one strong and resistant or impervious to attack? Is it fear? How to effectively deal with this type of situation? I've never been good at it.

[C T]

Are you seriously contemplating on nurturing a killer instinct in your 3yr old son??

One can learn to stand up where it counts without a trace of aggression, you know that right?

 

 

Whats this... a mortal kombat forum?

[Marblehead]

Remembering that I am a career soldier, I have never had that "killer's instinct". That is why I hold dear that code: I will help you if I can, I will kill you if I must.

 

Avoidance is much easier than violence.

 

But yes, there are some who use violence for the purpose of gaining attention from other. Being "bad" is another. The school bullies grow out of these people.

 

I will never recommend the use of violence but I will always recommend to all to be able and willing to defend themselves and those they love.

 

Is there a "right" answer to the question raised in the opening post? Apparently no "right" answer has been found yet because things like this continue to happen. And, of course, we cannot see the environment the "bully" is growing up in. Violence may be being taught to this child.

[Chang]

I do not think that "the killer instinct" is really required to protect ourselves from aggression.

 

What we need to develop is confidence and presence. The bully and aggressor will pick on the easy target and once the target no longer looks so easy it gives the aggressor pause for thought.

 

It need not necessarily be ability in martial arts that is required but may simply be a case of how we stand and move.

 

As your son is only three and a half years of age however it is probably best to make your concerns known to the daycare staff. At that age the reasoning behind retaliation could be a difficult for his young mind to grasp and could start to lay up problems for the future.

[idiot_stimpy]

The killer instinct is awakened in me when a family member is threatened. However it is not awakened when I am threatened.

[Silent Answers]

Teach him not to pity the ignorant pusher.

Edited October 11, 2014 by Silent Answers

[Aetherous]

I would think, for little kids, it's best that they not learn to fight. Our society has become very much one where you go and tell the "teacher" (tell a cop, or get a lawyer). If you use physical violence, you will be arrested, as an adult. You are then the enemy of the society. It's taken very seriously...so the first step of self defense in such a situation, is to not get in trouble by the law enforcement/teacher. If your kid fought for himself, even at this age, he could be kicked out of whatever school he's at. You don't want to raise a kid like that...they end up having trouble all throughout life, due to being the outcast.

That being said, if there's a fight or flight decision, it's best to fight in life. Aggression is good, if even the aggression is only a matter of standing on his own two feet and being self confident enough to not be pushed around by others.

So if I were you, I would find ways to develop the strength of my child, while not teaching him to hurt others. Teach him, on the other hand, to stand up against bullies! Protect the innocent. That's what truly strong people do.

One way to do this might be to practice zhan zhuang with him, as weird as it sounds for such a young kid. But if you want him to develop the ability to stand on his own two feet...what better way than actually doing so.

[BaguaKicksAss]

The pushing another kid over starts way before the actual pushing comes into play.

[z00se]

Are you seriously contemplating on nurturing a killer instinct in your 3yr old son??

One can learn to stand up where it counts without a trace of aggression, you know that right?

 

 

I don't mean killer instinct as in mortal kombat, more just not avoiding conflict, letting things go how they go and not standing up for yourself. If you get pushed over 3 times by the same kid and cry i think you need to do something unless you want it to keep happening. I'm talking about that state of mind that the alpha male has. It's possible, but this is day care man. Even primary school the first couple of years kids can't learn that, they're still just learning social skills.

 

Avoidance is much easier than violence

 

Yes,

 

I know what it was like when i was in low grades in primary school, it makes you fearful, sometimes i didn't want to go out of the teachers sight because i would begin to feel fearful because i could be bullied. It's not fun.

 

Later when i was mid primary school and at high school i had confidence yet for some reason i still attracted alot of fights. I don't know why, and other people even commented that it seemed lots of people wanted to bash me but they didn't know why either! I was one of the people who had the most fights at high school yet i never started any. I never wanted to fight (i dislike the feeling, a bit fearful, uncomfortable) and i never threw the first punch so i'm not sure why, maybe i was a bit cheeky is the only reason i can think of. Anyhow i won pretty much every fight and definately didn't lose any, even to people that were considered 'tough'. Perhaps that was a reason i was attacked more often, because i bet supposedly tough kids and others wanted to try, not sure. Thinking back now i probably could have avoided alot of fights by sticking up for myself earlier, with using light violence or verbal abuse to stop it coming to a full blown fight.... This is what i want to teach my son.

 

And, of course, we cannot see the environment the "bully" is growing up in. Violence may be being taught to this child.

 

I think often the father is a bully and it's learnt from him.

 

 

What we need to develop is confidence and presence. The bully and aggressor will pick on the easy target and once the target no longer looks so easy it gives the aggressor pause for thought.

 

It need not necessarily be ability in martial arts that is required but may simply be a case of how we stand and move.

 

As your son is only three and a half years of age however it is probably best to make your concerns known to the daycare staff. At that age the reasoning behind retaliation could be a difficult for his young mind to grasp and could start to lay up problems for the future.

 

Yes i agree. What do you know about this presence? I see it in people but i don't have it. I don't understand it. I think it comes naturally for some, but not for others. I think for some having this presence or even a dominating presence is fun or they enjoy it. I'm too busy enjoying everything else, to have to try to think about my presence is a distraction from my enjoyment of life. It doesn't come naturally to me and so for me it is just a mimicing of others who i have seen are dominant. Thats unless i'm loaded with chi from qigong, then it comes naturally... i feel it then, it radiates out of me, but i can't stay in that state all the time or i have trouble sleeping.

 

 

I would think, for little kids, it's best that they not learn to fight. Our society has become very much one where you go and tell the "teacher" (tell a cop, or get a lawyer). If you use physical violence, you will be arrested, as an adult. You are then the enemy of the society. It's taken very seriously...so the first step of self defense in such a situation, is to not get in trouble by the law enforcement/teacher. If your kid fought for himself, even at this age, he could be kicked out of whatever school he's at. You don't want to raise a kid like that...they end up having trouble all throughout life, due to being the outcast.

 

That being said, if there's a fight or flight decision, it's best to fight in life. Aggression is good, if even the aggression is only a matter of standing on his own two feet and being self confident enough to not be pushed around by others.

 

So if I were you, I would find ways to develop the strength of my child, while not teaching him to hurt others. Teach him, on the other hand, to stand up against bullies! Protect the innocent. That's what truly strong people do.

 

One way to do this might be to practice zhan zhuang with him, as weird as it sounds for such a young kid. But if you want him to develop the ability to stand on his own two feet...what better way than actually doing so.

 

Yes i agree. I've never seen my son push in the front of the line, take things for himself (apart from when he was like 1, but they all do that then), or show any aggression towards others even when they show aggression towards him. He looks to others to sort out these problems for him. The problem is the teacher is not always around, the police are not always there, and the older you get the more you get looked at as an annoying winging weakling who should stand up for himself and not keep wanting someone else to sort out the problem. Besides all the teacher / cop / law enforcement i still find generally it is more of a doggy dog world and you just need to appear to be playing within the rules if shit hits the fan and the situation gets audited. It's the same in business.

 

He is very confident i believe, until it comes to aggression, he is uncomfortable with it. My aim was to bring about balance by trying to make him feel comfortable about showing and being around aggression. I'm sure with him it would be an uphill battle. I certainly couldn't see him as a bully.

 

He hurts his much older sister by accident sometimes, so i'm sure he has the strength and the ability, it's just in his mind, he wants to avoid the fight and that draws the bullies. Thats the same as i experienced.

 

I have tried teaching him some very basic cultivation but he don't have the attention span. I don't want to teach him energy practices until he is much older, it's not good for little kids i don't think, they're best to just grow up naturally.

 

P.S. How do i put the persons name in a quote box?

[HoldorFold]

If an emotion is completely foreign to someone I might suggest becoming aquainted with the elemental nature of it.

 

Fire is hot and expanding. Imagine a forest fire, feel the heat and the energy and desire in the fire. Condense the hot explosive fire into human form. What is this person like? What emotions are they feeling?

 

Good article from a hermetic perspective: http://www.tinyurl.com/introtofire

[thelerner]

Well, this isn't to develop fighting skills, but take a look at the local martial arts dojos. A good club might have a class for kids that young and emphasize respect, stance, tumbling.. lots of good game play.. It might be a fun outlet and just standing taller with confidence might help the kid be less of a target. Its probably more about the individual teacher then the martial art style.

 

Again find a school that's fun, not one that tries to teach the kids anything to violent.

[Bearded Dragon]

Not killer instinct. Unwavering focus and intent.

 

The word Katsujinken comes to mind. The life saving fist. I have tried to learn a certain punch that drops people like a sack of potatoes and locks down all their muscles in a fit of pain, but it doesn't aim to damage anything. It's more like a taser than a hammer.

 

If you're throwing a hammer you kinda have to turn the intent down. With the other techniques you can turn it up to quite a frightening level, to the point where they probably want to leave you alone anyway.

[Marblehead]

The word Katsujinken comes to mind. The life saving fist. I have tried to learn a certain punch that drops people like a sack of potatoes and locks down all their muscles in a fit of pain, but it doesn't aim to damage anything. It's more like a taser than a hammer.

 

 

Sounds like the Bruce Lee "One Inch Punch". To the heart - temporary heart attack.

 

I saw a movie a while back and depending on whether it was based on fact or not, there was a technique that was used that Bruce got his punch idea from that was developed a few hundred years ago.

[forestofclarity]

I have seen people with the "killer instinct" as adults. When they look at people, they might as well be looking at furniture. In order to have the "killer instinct", you have to dehumanize others, and in dehumanizing others, you dehumanize yourself.

 

What we should want is our children to be strong, and strength doesn't come by being able to physically stand up to someone else. Strength comes from inner power, and inner power can be developed. It is developed by giving kids our time and attention, giving them positive encouragement, and telling them they are wonderful. What I've seen happen over time is that this positivity helps them develop the strength and confidence they need to face the world on their own. And when they are strong and confident, they are pushed around less. When they see injustice, they will naturally stand up for themselves and others.

[Unseen_Abilities]

Enrol him in local Taekkyeon dojang, develop abilities.

[Flolfolil]

...

Edited March 5, 2015 by Flolfolil

[Flolfolil]

...

Edited March 5, 2015 by Flolfolil

[9th]

I have seen people with the "killer instinct" as adults. When they look at people, they might as well be looking at furniture. In order to have the "killer instinct", you have to dehumanize others, and in dehumanizing others, you dehumanize yourself.

 

Yes, this is very clear. "Killer instinct" is not necessarily protective, and the instinct for self-preservation is not necessarily the "killer instinct". What you speak of is the ultimate equalizer, the path of "one-taste". However, for mental health professionals such terminology may not carry the same spiritual connotations. It is a matter of perception. This is why the ancient sutra of the Arahantavagga speak of those who "having comprehending food" are "independent of nutriment".

 

Again, the shadow of esotericism and "secret" teachings flits around the corner of your eyes. The great equalizer belongs to dangerous realms of the mind, but not necessarily depraved or degraded realms - although it does not prohibit such relations. If you've been there once, you'll never be the same again. It is intimately tied to practices of sorcery, and as far as I know the only person to address it in the mainstream was Castaneda:

 

As I have said, the fourth abstract core of the sorcery stories is called the descent of the spirit, or being moved by intent . In order to let the mysteries of sorcery reveal themselves it is necessary for the spirit to descend. The spirit chooses a moment when a man is distracted, unguarded, and, showing no pity, the spirit lets its presence by itself move the man's assemblage point to a specific position. This spot is known to sorcerers as the place of no pity. Ruthlessness becomes, in this way, the first principle of sorcery.

 

The first principle should not be confused with the first effect of sorcery apprenticeship, which is the shift between normal and heightened awareness.

 

To all appearances, having the assemblage point shift is the first thing that actually happens to a sorcery apprentice. So, it is only natural for an apprentice to assume that this is the first principle of sorcery. But it is not. Ruthlessness is the first principle of sorcery.

 

What we need to do to allow magic to get hold of us is to banish doubt from our minds. Once doubts are banished, anything is possible.

 

 

The most essential thing that people dont really understand about "magic" or "sorcery" is the great depths of their own doubts - and the implications of doubt in general. Power flows through you, it doesnt come from you. Impedance is the measurement of facility (or lack of it).

 

 

Electrical impedance is the measure of the opposition that a circuit presents to a current when a voltage is applied.

 

In quantitative terms, it is the complex ratio of the voltage to the current in an alternating current (AC) circuit. Impedance extends the concept of resistance to AC circuits, and possesses both magnitude and phase, unlike resistance, which has only magnitude. When a circuit is driven with direct current (DC), there is no distinction between impedance and resistance; the latter can be thought of as impedance with zero phase angle.

 

If you are creative enough to understand the relation of equalized perception to existential resistance, you will understand why the manipulation of reality is in direct proportion to its resolution.

[Michael Sternbach]

Hi z00se,

 

Here are a few ideas:

 

• Have your son enlighten those obnoxious kids on the relation of equalized perception to existential resistance.
• Enrol him in a local Wun Bong Drop Dead Kuen school. What, can't find any???!!! Then consider Judo. Not my no. 1 for live-and-death situations, generally speaking, but probably pretty good for gaining respect in daycare, on school yards, etc.
• Talking about activating the 'killer instinct', there is a method from internal martial arts: Rounding the back while keeping the spine straight - just hollowing the chest (as they say) and gently pushing the hips forward (more like letting them roll forward naturally as opposed to letting the butts stick out) - plus bending the fingers backwards activates the reptile brain. Not kidding. Careful with this one... For information purposes only. (Don't send me any dentist's bill.)

 

If your kid is the type who has trouble fighting back, letting him learn some martial art in a kid-friendly school early on might be a good idea. I was like that myself, and the inevitable school yard bullies made me hate going to school (even though I was a good student). Some teachers tend to underestimate this problem ("oh, it's just kids having a little fun"). Eventually, I learned to show them the line. I wish somebody could have taught me some easy self-defence much earlier.

[Brian]

 

<snip>

P.S. How do i put the persons name in a quote box?

Someone else nay have answered this already but...

 

You just put name="Person's Name" after the /quote, inside the square brackets at the beginning of the quoted text.

[dust]

more just not avoiding conflict, letting things go how they go and not standing up for yourself.

 

I wonder why someone who doesn't believe in avoiding conflict or "letting things go how they go" would be on a Taoist forum?

 

And why much of the advice here is to learn how to fight back?

 

 

The highest good is like water

Water benefits all things without striving

 

 

 

 

He is very confident i believe, until it comes to aggression, he is uncomfortable with it. My aim was to bring about balance by trying to make him feel comfortable about showing and being around aggression. I'm sure with him it would be an uphill battle. I certainly couldn't see him as a bully.

 

Apart from my belief that violence is not useful and will not make the situation better, I also don't believe that one should try to force another person to be other than how they are.

 

People learn, change, etc, yes. But it's something that happens over many years. We cannot, and should not, force someone to change.

 

Perhaps just be thankful that your son is not a violent little bully!

[Marblehead]

 

Perhaps just be thankful that your son is not a violent little bully!

Yeah.

[Michael Sternbach]

There is a big difference between a little bully and a kid who is constantly living in fear because they feel they are not able to protect themselves. This tends to leave them scarred for life (and I don't mean physically). Responsible martial arts training is not about making somebody a bully. It teaches you to fight only if there is no other way out - this is not at odds with Daoism. Learning about de-escalation should be part of the curriculum in self-defence oriented training. Knowing how to fight goes a long way in avoiding that you would actually have to resort to it. Bullies are always looking for easy victims, they generally leave people alone who are radiating confidence. Personally, I was able to avoid a physical altercation several times by radiating a mix of peacefulness and preparedness.

[dust]

Michael, you misunderstand me, I think.

 

 

Responsible martial arts training is not about making somebody a bully.

 

I wasn't suggesting that it is. Martial arts are about a lot more than fighting, I realize that.

 

I was suggesting that the OP wanting his 3 year old son to learn how to fight and instill a "killer instinct" is not necessarily the best way of handling the situation.

 

The OP also said "i guess physical force is the only way out" -- his kid's been pushed over 4 times, and has had assistance from the teacher in handling the situation, but now the "only" recourse is violence?

[Michael Sternbach]

Michael, you misunderstand me, I think.

 

 

 

I wasn't suggesting that it is. Martial arts are about a lot more than fighting, I realize that.

 

I was suggesting that the OP wanting his 3 year old son to learn how to fight and instill a "killer instinct" is not necessarily the best way of handling the situation.

 

The OP also said "i guess physical force is the only way out" -- his kid's been pushed over 4 times, and has had assistance from the teacher in handling the situation, but now the "only" recourse is violence?

 

Well, I take "killer instinct" to mean a sense to instantaneously and decisively fight back to a physical attack - the reptile brain response that is required for realistic self-defence. Moreover, the OP may be feeling that his kid lacks a sense of self protection in which case some adequate martial arts training could be advisable even if "only" for building up confidence.

Edited October 14, 2014 by Michael Sternbach