Songtsan Posted October 21, 2014 If you are truly immortal, then you know that this place is simply a big play pen. All forms are illusions and we all inter-exist within each other. Therefore, we are all ourselves and everyone else! Â Therefore, we all co-own everything! Â So, therefore, anything I touch is mine (and yours too!) Â That's how easy it is to let go of objects. Â Realize that we have all been born before and will exist again in multiple frequencies. Â This is endlessness. Â Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iain Posted October 21, 2014 (edited) If you are truly immortal, then you know that this place is simply a big play pen. All forms are illusions and we all inter-exist within each other. Therefore, we are all ourselves and everyone else! Â Therefore, we all co-own everything! Â So, therefore, anything I touch is mine (and yours too!) Â That's how easy it is to let go of objects. Â Realize that we have all been born before and will exist again in multiple frequencies. Â This is endlessness. Â No one is immortal, with all due respect, to my mind, you may have misunderstood some very fundamental points regarding the nature of reality; you may feel immortal, that is another thing altogether; this world is very real and we are all at different stages of development ... Do you see how easy it would be to translate your philosophy into auto justification for doing most any thing I wish, including theft and Murder? Some may see this as an inherent floor in your philosophy as we do share this world with others who all have different views. There are of course other things to take into account which are all just as real, food for example, how can the same piece of fruit be both yours and mine, if we both have a family to feed and there is a famine? Edited October 21, 2014 by iain 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted October 21, 2014 None of us own anything. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Songtsan Posted October 21, 2014 None of us own anything.  True! Yet also not true...  To own is to 'be in possession' of. Let's break this down:  Be - 'Exist' 'Occur' 'Take place'  In -expressing the situation of something that is or appears to be enclosed or surrounded by something else.  Possession -the state of having, owning, or controlling something.  Since all objects are simply in and of the mind, and Mind is available to everyone, we all have mind, and we all have all objects.  We can attain absorption on any object.  Perceiver, act of perception, and the perceived become one.  Possession implies occupancy  We all inter-exist everywhere at once...quantum physics agrees, Buddhism agrees, Vedanta agrees, holism agrees...  Therefore I/we own everything...or are owned by it - same thing really  Being is owning the moment  You are It  It is yours  'I am that' Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Seeker of Wisdom Posted October 21, 2014 If you are truly immortal I'm not.  then you know that this place is simply a big play pen. Play pens don't have famine or poverty.  All forms are illusions and we all inter-exist within each other. Therefore, we are all ourselves and everyone else! In that case words like 'we' and 'everyone else' are meaningless anyway, and if forms are 'illusions', isn't fire still hot and ice still cold? So what is the value of this philosophy? Therefore, we all co-own everything!  So, therefore, anything I touch is mine (and yours too!) Not really a feasible economic system, is it? Do you actually live your life based on this philosophy, really? That's how easy it is to let go of objects.  Realize that we have all been born before and will exist again in multiple frequencies.  This is endlessness. I think you need to immerse yourself in mundane reality for a while, forget about these slogans, you sound like you're on acid - no offence. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Songtsan Posted October 21, 2014 I'm not. Â Play pens don't have famine or poverty. Â In that case words like 'we' and 'everyone else' are meaningless anyway, and if forms are 'illusions', isn't fire still hot and ice still cold? So what is the value of this philosophy? Â Not really a feasible economic system, is it? Do you actually live your life based on this philosophy, really? Â Â I think you need to immerse yourself in mundane reality for a while, forget about these slogans, you sound like you're on acid - no offence. Â No...I think my mind has simply been polluted by nondualism and philosophies of perennialism... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Songtsan Posted October 21, 2014 FYI this thread was posted with an intention of having a lighthearted philosophical conversation....not that I necessarily desire to influence your tone, but I am just saying.... 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Songtsan Posted October 21, 2014 I suppose I will explain deeper and not be so cryptic...  Anytime something is in your head, you can be said to be in possession of 'it' since it is inside of you. When I walk over a bridge, I am in fact, setting foot upon myself. If I eat a piece of bread, the bread then becomes me. If a mosquito sucks my blood, then is our essence not shared? You are what you eat.  These are basic tenets of Advaita Vedanta  Indras net ring a bell?  I am not trying to proselytize however, or cajole or convince you to my way. I am simply writing for the sheer enjoyment of it. I am experiencing my God given right to allow myself to be a Perceiver of Bliss...  How can suffering be bliss?  When one embraces ones own eternal existence, one realizes that we all must share all things.  This is the Yin Yang and ebb and flow  Fair is fair...  As in Indras Net, we are all That Is...  When one suffers, we all suffer  When one exalts, that shout is heard across the universe  We share everything equally  God is indivisible. Can you ever, truly separate anything from anything? Keep trying to break things down, and you will always find more to divide, endlessly and forever.  This is the nature of our reality.  It is what it is.  I do not fear dissolution.  All forms must take their place in the never ending destruction/creation cycle.  When you realize this, you can relax and let go. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted October 21, 2014 (edited) If you are truly immortal, then you know that this place is simply a big play pen. All forms are illusions and we all inter-exist within each other. Therefore, we are all ourselves and everyone else! Â Therefore, we all co-own everything! Â So, therefore, anything I touch is mine (and yours too!) Â That's how easy it is to let go of objects. Â Realize that we have all been born before and will exist again in multiple frequencies. Â This is endlessness. Well, based on those criteria I guess I do not qualify to be an immortal. Â And as a side note, if you come to my house and claim that my music collection is yours you should be ready for a very strong disagreement. Edited October 21, 2014 by Marblehead 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Seeker of Wisdom Posted October 21, 2014 Sorry for the forceful tone, but there seem to be a lot of people taking nondualist ideas in a way that just isn't balanced, that denies conventional reality rather than uniting conventional and ultimate, and these people seem to end up spouting meaningless slogans in a weird mystical tone. And no reason gets through at that point, they're in the clouds, in a wonderland where fire doesn't burn their body because [insert stock platitude about nondualism here]. And I don't want that to happen to you, because you seem like a decent guy. Â I don't want you to lose balance and become another one parroting 'dear ones... we are all one', and so on ad infinitum. How quickly that serene veneer drops when their concepts (which they insist aren't concepts) are challenged, though! Â Yes, you can't find an ultimate barrier between 'self' and 'other', everything is an interplay of dependently originated empty phenomena as in Indra's Net. And if you have direct experience of this you are well ahead of me, I freely admit I'm too intellectual about all this... but in conventional life, the concept of 'I am walking on a bridge' is still valid, the concept of 'that is legally your property so if I get in your car and drive off I have committed a crime' is useful. The concept is a useful tool, it's only a problem if it uses us, rather than the other way round. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted October 21, 2014 None of us own anything. Okay, I can accept that. We are simply caretakers. But I do take very good care of what has been entrusted to me. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted October 21, 2014 No...I think my mind has simply been polluted by nondualism and philosophies of perennialism... Well, that's one thing you can't blame on me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Songtsan Posted October 21, 2014 Alright, there is also this:  Drop the Body as an Object of Possession  Is it you, or the body that suffers?  The body is mere electrochemical sensations.  How's that?  All you will ever experience is the electrochemical sensations, nothing else.  So.  What are you concerned about?  If you own nothing, then let the body go. You don't own it. Why fear dissolution?  If you own everything, which I believe also, then should you fear loss or pain?  Suffering is due to perceived loss...  Not having what one once had...degradation.  The one who owns nothing fears no loss.  The one who owns everything fears no loss.  What more can be said? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted October 21, 2014 FYI this thread was posted with an intention of having a lighthearted philosophical conversation....not that I necessarily desire to influence your tone, but I am just saying.... I always try to be light-hearted. Most people take life all too seriously. It's only life, you know. Here today, gone tomorrow. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted October 21, 2014 Drop the Body as an Object of Possession Okay. Lose your body. Where the heck are you going to store your brain? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted October 21, 2014 The one who owns everything fears no loss. But you don't own what is mine. I regret to say that you are not the center of my universe. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Seeker of Wisdom Posted October 21, 2014 ...All you will ever experience is the electrochemical sensations, nothing else. So.  What are you concerned about?...  I'm not concerned right now - but realistically, if I had to walk to class either barefoot on broken glass or wearing shoes on a normal path, I know which I would choose.  Seriously, if someone tried to stab you wouldn't you try to avoid the knife? If you don't eat for a day, don't you get hungry? If you burn yourself on a hot plate, isn't it unpleasant? Don't give a mystical response, please. Just straightforward 'yes' or 'no'.   Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Seeker of Wisdom Posted October 21, 2014 (edited) Also, if you truly lived your philosophy, my forceful tone earlier couldn't have upset you, could it? So why did it matter to you? You seemed insulted or something, but that makes no sense if you know we are all one and so on. Edited October 21, 2014 by Seeker of Wisdom Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Songtsan Posted October 21, 2014 OK OK...I will admit I was playing philosopher games here... Â However...it was fruitful for me. Â I will explain later. I am tired and need to sleep. Â There is no rest for the wicked, and it is the mind that is most wicked. Time for my mind to shut up so I can rest. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Songtsan Posted October 21, 2014 Also, if you truly lived your philosophy, my forceful tone earlier couldn't have upset you, could it? So why did it matter to you? You seemed insulted or something, but that makes no sense if you know we are all one and so on. Â No I wasn't insulted I was having fun...but multi-tasking so honestly not taking everything in...I was doing all kinds of activities at the time I wrote that stuff so I probably didn't pay as much attention as I should. I am a typical ADHD child. Â I will look over everything more closely and respond more appropriately in a day or so...probably in the end I will admit defeat...I was just blowing off steam Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Songtsan Posted October 21, 2014 I think the gist of what I was saying was that we can all appreciate the beauty of the myriad things around us as if we owned them all, without actually needing to possess them. Beautiful women/men, cars/houses, boats, mountains and whatnot. Â When I see envy or greed in myself I remind my selfsies of these things....remembering to be content with what matters most (you decide what that is) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted October 21, 2014 When I see envy or greed in myself I remind my selfsies of these things....remembering to be content with what matters most (you decide what that is) Yes, that is an admirable goal. Greed and envy are the "bad wolf" part of us. I think it might be a part of our ape-like instincts. Maybe not. Maybe its learned. I think I will go with instincts. Â Yes, being content with what matters most. And I will suggest that this would be inner peace. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Tao Of Alex Posted October 21, 2014 (edited) Songtsan, I understand where you were coming from in your original post. I assume you had an insight into the reality of things for you, and wanted to share . In my opinion, this Vedanta viewpoint is really not that far different than how people understand and interpret the Tao. I quoted in another topic on this forum from Hsueh-Feng: 'The whole world is you, yet you keep thinking there is something else'...kinda the same thing? Alex Edited October 21, 2014 by The Tao Of Alex 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bearded Dragon Posted October 21, 2014 It's a rule of society that what I paid for that exists in my house belongs to me. It's not universal truth. Â Immortality has nothing to do with ownership. You don't own anything nor do you not own anything. Ownership is just part of the game. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted October 21, 2014 Ownership is just part of the game. Just don't play your games with my stuff. Hehehe. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
