Dont give up!

[nantogph]

Don’t ever give up.
Even when it seems impossible,
Something will always
pull you through.
The hardest times get even
worse when you lose hope.
As long as you believe you can do it, You can.

But When you give up,
You lose !

[C T]

Reminds me of Peter Gabriel/Kate Bush's duet 'Dont Give Up'. love it!

[Marblehead]

"Hope" is a pretty strong word for an Atheist but I totally agree with what you said.

 

And even when we get to the point where we think it can't get any worse it sometimes does. That sucks!

 

But change is an ever-ongoing process. Nothing remains the same; the good times, the bad times. They will change and sometimes if we attempt to help the changes happen faster we can oftentimes make things worse but we can also make things better. We won't know until we try.

[PimonratC]

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[Rara]

Yes, persistence is everything. You might not get what you want but you will always get what is supposed to be for you.

[GrandmasterP]

"Kids, you tried your best, and you failed miserably.

The lesson is, never try."

 

(Homer Simpson)

Edited October 21, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[idiot_stimpy]

There is a lot of freedom in surrender.

 

Trying stems from a desire to change something that isn't with you right now.

[Rara]

"Kids, you tried your best, and you failed miserably.

The lesson is, never try."

 

(Homer Simpson)

Lol

[Rara]

There is a lot of freedom in surrender.

 

Trying stems from a desire to change something that isn't with you right now.

True in some circumatances (your first sentence) especially if you know what you're doing isn't working, that you've taken the wrong approach (not prepared well in the first instance) or you've "lost" the battle (but the war is far from over)

 

Is desire bad though? What about acquiring a skill? Meditating, for example, wouldn't be any good if we all didn't "try" to improve the technique.

 

Or are you speaking more against the word "try"? Like Yoda..."do there is only"? In which case I know what you are saying...

Edited October 23, 2014 by Rara

[Michael Sternbach]

 

 

Thanks rainbowvein and CT! Peter is outstanding... I saw him on stage in Geneva last year. He got a little older since that video was made (who didn't) but he maintained a young spirit... he even sometimes laid down on the floor while singing (but I don't think because he was tired). I was impressed not only by his live performance but also by the very remarkable things I learnt about him. Let me mention a few of them:

 

• Peter helped pioneer a new realm of musical interaction in 2001, visiting Georgia State University's Language Research Center to participate in keyboard jam sessions with bonopo apes from the Democratic Republic of the Congo. His desire to bring attention to the intelligence of primates also took the form of ApeNet, a project that aimed to link great apes through the internet, enabling the first interspecies internet communication.
• In 2004, he spent time in a village in eastern Nepal with musician Ram Sharan Nepali, learning esoteric vocal techniques.
• He is a Human Rights activist who received the Man of Peace award from the Nobel Peace Price Laureates in 2006, and in 2008, TIME magazine named him one of the 100 most influential people in the world.
• He developed The Elders, an international non-governmental organisation of public figures noted as elder statesmen, peace activists, and human rights advocates, who were brought together by Nelson Mandela in 2007. They describe themselves as "independent global leaders working together for peace and human rights". The goal Mandela set for the Elders was to use their "almost 1,000 years of collective experience" to work on solutions for seemingly insurmountable problems such as climate change and poverty, as well as to "use their political independence to help resolve some of the world's most intractable conflicts".

 

Is Peter an invincible superman? No... he went through plenty of difficulties, too. At one time, he was bankrupt. He also experienced traumatic relationship stuff. I think, when he made "Don't Give Up", he knew what he was singing about - and what somebody can achieve who is refusing to give up.

Edited October 23, 2014 by Michael Sternbach

[manitou]

And yet this type of determination can be so contrary to higher spiritual understandings. I always remember in the movie Gandhi, when a reporter remarked to Gandhi that "you certainly are ambitious", and Gandhi replied "I hope not". I have no idea whether this was actually said by Gandhi or not, but I get the point.

 

Upon reading the higher master writings of any particular tradition I've read, the master-hood of each and every tradition seems to mean, among other things, a surrender to the Dao of things and the Universe.

 

This is where the concept of relativity comes into this discussion as well. If a person is young, raising a family; this is the time for ambitions.. When a person becomes aged, this is the time for developing wisdom. When a person comes closer to their time of death, this is their time to fully realize acceptance.

 

So in the context of this thread, the OP presents the perfect frame of reference for one going through a particular part of their life. What perfect determination, what quiet strength.

 

And yet, in my 67th year, I am finally wearing the acceptance for how things came out in my life, in a way that I haven't before. It no longer has to do with determination of the type you've described. It's more a determination to be the best partner I can be for my partner; to be kind; to be grateful for what we've got. And at this point in life where we've just had to go out and buy a geezer-scooter for Joe because walking is such a challenge now - how much joy can be experienced just enjoying each day as it comes along. My new determination, my new focus of persistence, is to be as happy as possible with what I currently have at the time. This is a very new phenomena for me.

 

But the concept of Don't Give Up that the OP referred to - what an appropriate response that is to one that is struggling through school. Or the pain of losing a child. But within Don't Give Up is the connotation that there is a condition that is not currently present that is greatly wished for. When giving advice to a woman who is complaining that 'Her husband just won't change!', the correct advice is no longer Don't Give Up.

[doc benway]

Complex subject: there is the don't give up, keep trying aspect that most people respect and encourage; and there is the give up completely, allow things to be as they are for that is how it is and you are only punishing yourself if you don't accept it side of things that is very powerful and effective in alleviating our suffering.

 

Somewhere there is a balance. It is clearly important for us to do things in our lives that help us and those around us to survive and prosper and enjoy our lives. At the same time there is a place for not struggling against the things that we want to be different when we are unable to change them; and there is a place for accepting when something we desire is lacking and we are unable to get it. In every moment, we can practice allowing things to be exactly as they are and find it within ourselves to be open enough to be OK with that. At the same time, we can certainly take actions that we feel are appropriate to move forward so that we can live our lives as we see fit.

[idiot_stimpy]

True in some circumatances (your first sentence) especially if you know what you're doing isn't working, that you've taken the wrong approach (not prepared well in the first instance) or you've "lost" the battle (but the war is far from over)

 

Is desire bad though? What about acquiring a skill? Meditating, for example, wouldn't be any good if we all didn't "try" to improve the technique.

 

Or are you speaking more against the word "try"? Like Yoda..."do there is only"? In which case I know what you are saying...

 

I think desire is not bad but equally it is not good, it just has its purpose.

 

Also there is no shame in losing. I think its our conditioning that tells us we have to win and cannot lose. If we give up, we lose, and if we lose it is bad. I think its important to see this conditioning for what it is, and then the choice is yours to believe in it or disregard it.

[C T]

Maintaining constant thought-vigilance or mindfulness is a good example of having a 'don't give up' attitude. If we give that up, we fall into delusion; the moment we see clearly and awakefully that we have been distracted, we come back to the present, and here, we try to maintain that present awareness. To do this repeatedly is to accommodate the mind in ease and comfort, which is almost synonymous with cultivating a sense of 'acceptance' and 'letting go'.

 

Sometimes though we hit instances where letting go is the last thing we want to do. Circumstances demand that we cling tightly to certain things, so there is a need here to call upon more direct means of cutting thru the stubbornness, the egoic graspings, the talons that latch themselves firmly in the past - what do we do here? Using peaceful subjugation methods usually fall short of its intended purpose. At times like these, usually a more direct, forceful approach is required to snap us out of this hypnotic slumber. Finding the inner resolve to do this is not a puny undertaking, and so, the advice from masters to persist with practice is summed up in the phrase, DONT GIVE UP.

[manitou]

CT - your responses remind me of the Serenity Prayer:

 

God grant me the Serenity

To accept the things I cannot change,

The courage to change the things I can,

And the Wisdom to know the difference.

[Anoesjka]

This thread is perfect in showing that we all have a part of the truth, so by listening to every one of you I have gained a higher understanding (once again).

_/\_

[Bearded Dragon]

When the "Don't give up" thought arises you know you still have work to do. It's a signpost of a buildup of tension. If you were doing the same thing without mental tension I doubt the thought would arise.

[Rara]

 

I think desire is not bad but equally it is not good, it just has its purpose.

 

Also there is no shame in losing. I think its our conditioning that tells us we have to win and cannot lose. If we give up, we lose, and if we lose it is bad. I think its important to see this conditioning for what it is, and then the choice is yours to believe in it or disregard it.

I have given up lots of things in my life...

 

Things that didn't make me happy. To some, it is failure. To me it is victory, liberation, and a lesson not to do things in future just for prestige.

[idiot_stimpy]

Completely hear you rara, going through something similar at the moment.

[Stosh]

I know I know ,Its not popular to say ,, but banging ones head against a brick wall actually is a thing one should readily give up. And giving up is quite popular for that reason.

There are times when one values a thing greatly , and when they have better than a snowballs chance in hell of getting there..it makes sense to encourage perseverance beyond the momentary perspective.

That being said , a person should reasonably back away from efforts which get nowhere.

It has been called the zenith of insanity to repeat the same things and expect different results.

There is a chance that one has set lofty goals which just aren't realistic , and this dooms oneself to failure , if they never recognize the new data coming in.

Urging folks not to consider 'giving up' as a viable alternative without knowing the particulars, IMO, is skewed.

If someone did tell me all the particulars ,well I then would taking it upon myself to make the decision which someone else has to live with. Would one of us not want the ability to choose for ourselves what we will have to live with?

 

 

One should choose wisely between 1) abandoning a waste of time and effort ,, and 2) getting over a hump because the goal is important, and not look to conform with some oversimplified dictate.