Zhan Zhuang - Suggestions for Short Practice

[Taomeow]

Well, the subtitles go too fast and I don't want to dedicate any more time to this, but no, he's not grabbing the ground with his toes, he specifically shows how not to point the tailbone forward at 1:29, he most definitely is not pulling the buttocks in and up, he tells the student not to lower his eyes, and so on and so forth. I guess the only point of dispute, which is not worth disputing however, could be the name -- the term ZZ doubles up as the generic one which can apply to many standing meditations, besides referring specifically to the wuji pillar. I thought we were talking about the latter and had the same pose in mind -- if not, well, I'm still talking fundamentals, for which there's multiple applications, and I still believe they are pretty much the same for all applications. As for assorted applications -- e.g., a Longmen Pai instructor in Beijing taught me a harder version of this one (for which I couldn't find a pic, nor anyone in the US who's ever seen it):

 

 

[Blackfinger]

Try incorporating hyper slow movement in your routine. If you have 20 min available, then down 10 min to a deep horse stance posture with arms embracing tree and up 10 min. Build it up because this exercise is very, very tough on the mind. You can start with one minute down and one up.

 

Use a timer to help you with this (and also avoid cheating).

 

Another variation would be going down and up doing pistol squats if you can manage doing them or near pistol, no need to go that deep. It works wonders on the Wood and Water meridians (and corresponding organs), which are typically bogged with mental detritus.

 

Note: Borrowed from the book "Opening the Dragon Gate."

 

Thanks Gerard - i like the suggestion, though I am loathe to do anything that would involve too much perspiring, due to the logistical problems of either needing a shower afterwards, or being smelly/uncomfortable at the desk...

[soaring crane]

"open crotch bend knee" -- means, opening the crotch causes the knees to bend. Well, that's how my teachers would explain it anyway.

[CloudHands]

If you do "hugging the tree," it helps to imagine literally giving some love to a tree with a nice big hug when you take position.

 

edit: plus trees deserve some love. I have yet to learn "tree gong," but perhaps it's in my future.

 

Ahah so true

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Well, the subtitles go too fast and I don't want to dedicate any more time to this,

 

That's fine, I know these threads can be time consuming. I hope you don't mind that I continue though, for clarity's sake.

 

but no, he's not grabbing the ground with his toes,

 

 

You may be right about the toes, though I can't be entirely certain, as zhongding zhuan seems to follow most of the other "moving" points, and I know that gripping the floor with the toes (well at least the big toe, which pretty much engages the rest) is used in certain points according to the Illustrated Canon of Chen Family Taijiquan by Chen Xin. I know this is also very useful for balance.

 

he specifically shows how not to point the tailbone forward at 1:29, he most definitely is not pulling the buttocks in and up, he tells the student not to lower his eyes, and so on and so forth.

 

Well, he says not to push the entire hips forward, creating a lopsided posture where the back is leaning backwards. This disconnects the flow. Everything should be straight, which it still can, perhaps even more so, when tucking in the coccyx.

 

The students eyes are closed, so if they are open a little bit, they've got to be lowered, I would say.

 

Also, the part I was referring to is all after about 5:25 when he talks about zongding zhuan in contrast to Wuji zhuan. This is where things begin to change. In the "sunken posture," which is more moving, "Taiji follows Wuji.. dantien revolves back and forth, fold and move the chest to shape the core of the dantien." Their shoulders appear to be pulled slightly forward as well. By slightly forward, I mean that in a loose stance, the angle of the shoulders from the chest goes slightly back. When you relax the trapezius muscles, they come forward a bit, making them more perpendicular to the chest.

 

Earlier I said bringing the shoulders forward relaxes these muscles, but the reverse order works too, relaxing the muscles to let the shoulder fall forward a bit. I can see how this would be tough on the heart though, while useful for combat purposes.

 

I guess the only point of dispute, which is not worth disputing however, could be the name -- the term ZZ doubles up as the generic one which can apply to many standing meditations, besides referring specifically to the wuji pillar. I thought we were talking about the latter and had the same pose in mind -- if not, well, I'm still talking fundamentals, for which there's multiple applications, and I still believe they are pretty much the same for all applications.

 

At least for the two that Master Chen talks about in the video, they are both post standing/zhan zhuang. The subtitles show "Wuji post/zhuan and stabilizing center post/zhuang." Obviously they are standing, so they are both zhan as well.

 

 

Anyways, my purpose is not to be an annoyance, but it was strongly suggested that all the points to do with the coccyx, knees, shoulders, and chest were detrimental to useful standing practice. This doesn't seem to be the case, but merely that they are another side of the practice, both of which can be part of one's practice.

 

If I am wrong, I would greatly appreciate to hear other's perspectives.

 

 

Either way, if you have a good teacher, just go with the program they have for you and you'll find the benefits they're leading you towards.

Edited October 27, 2014 by Harmonious Emptiness

[Harmonious Emptiness]

All that said, made more of an effort to go with the Wuji zhuang pointers, and look forward to discovering more about that in practice. The Wuji points may even be made more obvious after following what seems to be more conventional pointers (perhaps related the zhongding zhuang), since the conventional points bring awareness to all of the places that are relaxed.

[soaring crane]

I asked Lam Kam Chüen if I should be holding Huiyin up while standing and he replied, "don't do anything with huiyin. You Westerners, hahahaha".

 

Overthinking this stuff is also a trap.

 

My suggestion to the OP, i.e. "Just wondered if anyone could send over recommendations for brief zhan zhuang routines.": do a really easy loosening routine, simple arm swinging, front to back, not too mild, but don't make it too gymnastic, either. Do it for a good solid three minutes, or up to five. If you know how to do the torso-turning sideways arm swinging, do that for a couple minutes, too.

 

When you're done, do a little bouncing. Jump up and down and swing your arms freely, shake out the tension in the shoulders and back and butt. Then jump up one time higher than you've been jumping up to this point, and land firmly on your spot. However your feet land is your stance, but you can make minimal corrections for the sake of comfort.

 

Stand in a position that feels erect, vertical to you. The inner picture should be perfection. The body might not be perfect, but that's ok (for a while).

 

Now do the to and fro arm swing again, only a few times. When the impulse strikes, stop the arms while on the downstroke. They should come to a stop somewhere between the chest and pelvis, hands facing the ground, sort of like you had slapped them down on an imaginary table. This is your arm and hand position. Make minimal corrections for comfort.

 

Open your eyes, look straight ahead. Do not look down, do not hang the head like a shameful dog. Look straight out in front of you. Awake. Aware. Alive.

 

You should feel very light and airy at first. Make a mental note of this feeling.

 

Stand there for a a good fifteen minutes. Don't move a muscle. Don't waver. Maintain that first feeling of freshness and alive-ness. Keep looking actively out to the distant horizon (even if it's just a mental game and you're really standing in a closet).

 

If (or, when) the feeling changes and you begin to get tense, or your head droops, or whatever, make minimal corrections to call up that feeling of freshness. Stay awake.

 

After the fifteen minutes of standing (I said standing; this isn't Zhan Zhuang), you really have to do a closing routine. Very important. If you have to shorten your standing session in order to get in a more effective closing routine, then do that. The minimum you should do is lay the hands atop one another on the lower belly for a time that feels right to you, then start circling the hands around the Qihai, or around the navel. Say, nine circles in one direction, six in the other (yang and yin harmonizing).

 

Then massage the neck with the hands.

 

Then push the hands three times along the front of the body from the top of the breastbone down to the lower belly and let them rest there for a few seconds ...

 

There are a lot of other things you can do to close, but with limited time, that's a pretty good practice.

 

This would be a nice way to spend a lunch break. But don't forget to eat a little something, too :-)

 

There's a similar mathod for getting the arms into the metal-phase position (the one where you look like you're hugging a tree).

[PLB]

I asked Lam Kam Chüen if I should be holding Huiyin up while standing and he replied, "don't do anything with huiyin. You Westerners, hahahaha".

 

Overthinking this stuff is also a trap.

 

My suggestion to the OP, i.e. "Just wondered if anyone could send over recommendations for brief zhan zhuang routines.": do a really easy loosening routine, simple arm swinging, front to back, not too mild, but don't make it too gymnastic, either. Do it for a good solid three minutes, or up to five. If you know how to do the torso-turning sideways arm swinging, do that for a couple minutes, too.

 

When you're done, do a little bouncing. Jump up and down and swing your arms freely, shake out the tension in the shoulders and back and butt. Then jump up one time higher than you've been jumping up to this point, and land firmly on your spot. However your feet land is your stance, but you can make minimal corrections for the sake of comfort.

 

Stand in a position that feels erect, vertical to you. The inner picture should be perfection. The body might not be perfect, but that's ok (for a while).

 

Now do the to and fro arm swing again, only a few times. When the impulse strikes, stop the arms while on the downstroke. They should come to a stop somewhere between the chest and pelvis, hands facing the ground, sort of like you had slapped them down on an imaginary table. This is your arm and hand position. Make minimal corrections for comfort.

 

Open your eyes, look straight ahead. Do not look down, do not hang the head like a shameful dog. Look straight out in front of you. Awake. Aware. Alive.

 

You should feel very light and airy at first. Make a mental note of this feeling.

 

Stand there for a a good fifteen minutes. Don't move a muscle. Don't waver. Maintain that first feeling of freshness and alive-ness. Keep looking actively out to the distant horizon (even if it's just a mental game and you're really standing in a closet).

 

If (or, when) the feeling changes and you begin to get tense, or your head droops, or whatever, make minimal corrections to call up that feeling of freshness. Stay awake.

 

After the fifteen minutes of standing (I said standing; this isn't Zhan Zhuang), you really have to do a closing routine. Very important. If you have to shorten your standing session in order to get in a more effective closing routine, then do that. The minimum you should do is lay the hands atop one another on the lower belly for a time that feels right to you, then start circling the hands around the Qihai, or around the navel. Say, nine circles in one direction, six in the other (yang and yin harmonizing).

 

Then massage the neck with the hands.

 

Then push the hands three times along the front of the body from the top of the breastbone down to the lower belly and let them rest there for a few seconds ...

 

There are a lot of other things you can do to close, but with limited time, that's a pretty good practice.

 

This would be a nice way to spend a lunch break. But don't forget to eat a little something, too :-)

 

There's a similar mathod for getting the arms into the metal-phase position (the one where you look like you're hugging a tree).

Three treasures with a sprinkle of five element qigong. Wrap it to go,

[Taomeow]

I asked Lam Kam Chüen if I should be holding Huiyin up while standing and he replied, "don't do anything with huiyin. You Westerners, hahahaha".

 

I would translate "you Westerners" in this context as "people who think that, just because they've become aware of the existence of something, they have to grab it, have it, do something with it..."

 

Or: "this is the point you engage when you're ready -- it's part of pretty advanced routines, beginners shouldn't tamper with it."

 

However, since you're not one of those cocky "Westerners" (LOL -- there's quite a few Chinese in this category as well, it's been demonstrated many times, including on this forum), here's the secret of what to do with huiyin when you're ready:

yes, pull it up, by all means -- from the crown of the head. Not locally, and not by using muscles. (There was a member of this forum who gave herself a "crown chakra" orgasm at one point which blew her mind -- she originally joined specifically to find out what that was all about. No one knew. I didn't know then, I think I know now. I'm pretty sure she got this "side effect" by inadvertently pulling her huiyin up with the crown in the course of her experiments -- but since it was an accident, she could never replicate the feat.)

[sward]

Yea, I "stand like a tree" during lunch on the yard at the back or the factory where I work. Check out "stand still be fit" youtube vidios they were on England's PBtv. It would be an easy search. I also do walking meditation or some other qigong. If you don't find Zhan zhuang day 1 with a quick search leave me a message.

To cultivate Qi you got to do the work don't worry about details that is what study is for, ask teachers questions you have! don't lisen to answers you have not requested (with a question.)

 

go play and enjoy the now at lunch.

sward

[Andrei]

Bagua zhan zhuang practice:

 

[Blackfinger]

Thanks all for the additional suggestions. I am proceeding with LKC's way of energy book exercises. They are perfect in time and (initial) simplicity and I am already enjoying them and feeling moderate benefits.

 

Feel free to keep any suggestions coming though, for the sake of the thread, which has turned out to be a real treasure trove, and fascinating to read

[thelerner]

Somethjing to experiment with: Try staying alert in your sessions. Don't go empty, don't close the eyes, don't shut out the real world.

 

'Standing like a tree' means standing with tremendous awareness of your surroundings. What, you think trees aren't aware?

 

'Standing like a tree' also means remaining active. What, you think trees are passive?

 

This is why 'standing like a palace guard' comes closer to the state we look for. When you stand this way, eyes open, gazing over the horizon, expectantly watching for smoke rising from the hills in the distance, or listening for sound of an approaching enemy, while remaining absolutely motionless, you build up all that power internally without expending it. It's jing.

bump..

 

You talk about remaining active. One of the ways I do that (I think) is feeling a rubber band connected to the back of head (& spine) gently and continually lifting up. One at my spines base, gently and continually pulling down. Two by my shoulders gently pulling them apart, which expands my chest and keeps my arms a little out, away from my body.

 

Does that make sense?

[Taomeow]

bump..

 

You talk about remaining active. One of the ways I do that (I think) is feeling a rubber band connected to the back of head (& spine) gently and continually lifting up. One at my spines base, gently and continually pulling down. Two by my shoulders gently pulling them apart, which expands my chest and keeps my arms a little out, away from my body.

 

Does that make sense?

 

I tried to 'install" your rubber bands for a moment and found that I would adjust them a bit. You don't want the vertical one to be angled backward, so don't put it at the back of the head -- instead, let it pass inside and emerge at the top of the head. Your body settles grounding into the earth, while your spirit settles grounding into heaven -- the spirit is uplifted. So your rubber band pulls down and up from the mingmen, and that's where your "heaven and earth" separate and unite (and create space for "life" to dwell).

 

The horizontal one shoulder to shoulder may interfere with the rounding of the structure -- which is rounded at the shoulders, elbows, wrists, chest, back, etc. -- although not necessarily visibly -- so if you want to go with rubber bands, you may want to install them at every joint, one inside the shoulder, one inside the elbow, one inside the wrist. Instead of pulling shoulder to shoulder horizontally, you want a pull that separates each joint in a way similar to what you did with the spine -- into "heaven and earth," creating space in between, the head of each joint pulling slightly away from the socket. When this extends all the way to every joint of every finger, qi flows and circulates like water, unimpeded.

[soaring crane]

 

Does that make sense?

 

I was writing about the mental state at the time.

 

For posture, like TM says, all good except make sure your chin isn't rising and your shoulders are relaxed. I don't think 'rounded' shoulders is a good goal in itself. To find shoulder position, go through the extremes of pushing them forward, and pulling them back, then settle into the comfortable middle. Let the arms hang loosely and turn the points of the elbows gently outward. Attach your rubber bands to the tips of the elbows. Don't think about the shoulders, you'll only tense them up.

 

There's an exercise (I learned during a a few "Shaolin White Crane" workshops) that really helps to settle things with the shoulders. Kind of too much to go into here but basically, roll the arms to the front, briging the backs of the hands together. You'll feel the shoulder blades open, and the shoulder themselves will be shifted unnaturally forward, extremely rounded, you could say.

 

Then open the hands, roll the arms outward so the palm are facing outward or even angled to the rear. The chest will open, the shoulder blades will pinch together, and make sure that the shoulders are going downward (you should maintain a long neck, like a ballerina).

 

Those are the extremes.

 

Move fluidly from one to the other. Breathe through the movemt. Let the movement become gentler and gentler, until it settles in the middle. Make note of that position, and of that feeling. Call it up at will (but then do the elbows outward thing, to opent the armpit kuas).

 

There are a lot of small details missing in my description, but I think you can get them sorted out.

 

Migmen/Qihai play a central role in the movement, btw. That's a clue :-)