trusting spirits?

[MooNiNite]

a few teachers have said, "you should never believe any spirit no matter what they say! they will always try to get something from you." what do you guys think?

[Cheshire Cat]

I think that those teachers have very little experience in this field.

[Michael Sternbach]

I'd say it depends on the kind of 'spirit' you are conversing with. Not a very well defined word, is it?

[Blackfinger]

a few teachers have said, "you should never believe any spirit no matter what they say! they will always try to get something from you." what do you guys think?

If you replace the word 'spirit' with 'person' does it ring true then?

No difference, IMO.

[BaguaKicksAss]

a few teachers have said, "you should never believe any spirit no matter what they say! they will always try to get something from you." what do you guys think?

 

Bullshit.

 

However, until you learn to differentiate that is likely good advice. No different than walking downtown. How many random strangers would you trust? With spirits it is more about your gut and psychic instincts. Though that isn't 100% either as they are better at energetic stuff than we are.

 

The best approach is to have a teacher guide you in how to work with them and tell them apart. Also getting a Deity you trust and have them let you know which spirits are good and which are not good for you in particular to work with.

 

Most systems have divination systems as well.

 

But in short, find a teacher. If you don't beleive me, read a book called hungry ghosts (a true story personal account about a bunch of newagers who were channeling "beings of light").

[Flolfolil]

...

Edited March 5, 2015 by Flolfolil

[The Tao Of Alex]

I don't know, someday's I think I'd rather trust spirits than people...

Alex

[skydog]

dogs

Edited October 27, 2014 by skydog

[idiot_stimpy]

never trust your intuition

I would trust it after you have measured it with logic and reason.

[skydog]

was joking

[C T]

Trusting one's intuitive abilities can be very beneficial and even be a life-saver.

 

Abandoning it often leads to undesirable outcomes. A lot of western spiritual seekers

got into difficulties in India, physically, mentally, emotionally, simply because they did

not heed their better judgement. And they continue to remain vulnerable, which is

quite a bizarre thing.

[Songtsan]

a few teachers have said, "you should never believe any spirit no matter what they say! they will always try to get something from you." what do you guys think?

 

assume all guides as false, based on your desired perception...take any information with a grain of salt. Don't even assume that they are spirits - they could be anything from desire body manifestations to aliens to thought constructs to your higher self to etc etc...

[doc benway]

a few teachers have said, "you should never believe any spirit no matter what they say! they will always try to get something from you." what do you guys think?

 

It depends on you, your approach, your background, your level of insight into yourself, and your sensitivity. Developing relationships with the spirit world isn't too much different from developing relationships within our physical world. Intuition is valuable but I also think it important to have some guidance if you are new to the practice and to use some degree of healthy caution.

[silent thunder]

I think just because they don't have a body, doesn't mean they're smart, or nice...

 

As with all things... discernment is invaluable.

[Rara]

a few teachers have said, "you should never believe any spirit no matter what they say! they will always try to get something from you." what do you guys think?

Definitely not!

[GrandmasterP]

Like attracts like.

Cheery, positive people on this side of life will tend to come across cheery positive spirit folk from the other side of life.

Always best to 'test the spirits' though and for best results trust to one's own experience and intuition rather than anything a spirit chum might propose.

By and large the positive spirit chums tend not to give direct advice anyhoo, they know enough and care enough to leave us sort out our own stuff.

You're more likely to get a nod or shake of the spirit friend or loved ones head in response to something you have initiated yourself.

The spirits who go around telling people to do stuff are best avoided in much the same way as we'd avoid bossy or pushy types on this side of life.

Edited October 27, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[doc benway]

One thing I'd like to add is to remember that in any relationship, it is much more important to focus on yourself than the other, be that a person, spirit, or the earth itself. Continually look at things like what is my responsibility, what are my expectations, my motivation, my desire, and my needs? How accurate is my image of the other, how much of that is my own projection and expectation? And look at what it is that you have to offer to the relationship. In shamanic traditions, the offering is perhaps the most important aspect and take priority over the asking.

[MooNiNite]

One example, Jim Mcmillian talks about how spirits suck a person's yin energy from them, they can sap energy from people they are around.

 

i think this is very true

[Songtsan]

It's a trade really...the beings of the lower plane generally trade knowledge for energy...the more you give, the more interesting knowledge you can gain...you must use your senses and be facile. Teaching can go both ways too. Spirits learn from people as well. It's all a game of energy exchange and exploitation. Higher level beings, having mastered their energy cycles and knowing how not to return to the land of their birth through conserving their energies and applying them at the right moments, can certainly come and offer guidance for free. This is not unexpected. Perhaps there is a truth to all of these things, yet I often wonder if the gift they give with the energy exchange is false all around. They seem to use a best fit model, using your own thought devices and whims and telling you what you wish to hear. On the whole I think that they are simply players. They like to go get stuff from people and use it for their own enjoyment. Kind of like people here on Earth. We are not so different than them actually, when you examine yourself. I am mainly speaking of beings such as Asuras and whatnot. Compassionate light beings like Padmapani for example, you can trust. The proof is in the pudding. You can tell by the energy and attitude of the spirits whether or not they are higher or lower beings.

 

Some are gift givers, and receive the pleasure of giving. Some are gift receivers, and receive the pleasure of owning objects of power or worth. I particularly don't like fascination objects anymore as they tend to absorb ones energy in the seeking and holding of them.

 

Honoring Asuras is like giving money to drug fiends; all you are doing is enabling them. They will never break out of their karmic cycles if you keep giving them your energy. Both sides then lose...you will lose vital essence, while they will continue to be trapped in the hidden misery disguised as pleasure of the lower realms.

Edited October 28, 2014 by Songtsan

[Songtsan]

Just wanted to expand on this topic and say that there are way too many similarities between descriptions of interfering spirits, entities, etc. among all religions for it to be coincidence.

 

Buddha had to deal with Mara and associated demons

Alien abductees have to deal with reptiles, the greys, etc. who must have a hierarchy

Muslims have to deal with Djinni and Shaytan, Iblis, Azazel, etc.

Christians have to deal with various demons and Satan

 

Whatever term you use, Asuras and Devas, terms like Shekinah, or whatever, the fact is that these things are out there and that they like to play games and deliver messages. They can appear as angels and stimulate bliss within you. Then they gain your trust and start to control you and begin to defile your original pure nature.

 

They have the ability to insert thoughts, stimulate emotions and cravings, control moods, and move the bodies physically...talking in tongues, divination, all this stuff comes from a source that one can group into a certain category...what this category is is questionable.

 

Those who think they know probably don't. You can say they are ascended masters, angels, thought constructs, archetypal manifestations of group mind creations, or anything else.

 

I don't know what they are, but I aim to not feed them any of my energy any longer.

 

They are amusing and know how to entice...they can stimulate glands to produce neuropeptides and other hormones...

 

They seem to seek to create discord, to produce karmic cycles of aggression, sexual deviancy, hopelessness, religious zealotry, and all kinds of other foments..

 

You are born with free will.

 

Use your own wisdom to decide what is best.

 

Trust no human and no ethereal being as much as you trust yourself.

 

Even if you aren't so wise, you will fare better to be true to your own nature.

 

Do not let the natures of others' intents supersede your own.

 

If they want to play games, let them...they are wasting their energy, and you can absorb their efforts into your own energy bodies as you create your own Divine Body...once you understand and apply these principles, they will leave you alone, because they know that they are now losing their own essence in fucking with you.

 

In the end, this may all be a test of who you are. Those who pass through these gates can leave and never come back. It is to the advantage of the spirits to keep us here locked in karmic cycles, because we are the food they eat. When you escape the wheel here, you then get to be one them - top of the food chain.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Songtsan

[C T]

Songtsan, sorry to say, but your mind appears to be very scattered.

 

My advice, which you are free to disregard, is to find a proper tradition

and focus on what that path lays out for their practitioners in terms of practice.

 

At the rate you are going, genuine awakening will elude you. You have

too many distractions.

 

I'm only saying this out of brotherly concern. Dont take it wrongly please.

[Songtsan]

Songtsan, sorry to say, but your mind appears to be very scattered.

 

My advice, which you are free to disregard, is to find a proper tradition

and focus on what that path lays out for their practitioners in terms of practice.

 

At the rate you are going, genuine awakening will elude you. You have

too many distractions.

 

I'm only saying this out of brotherly concern. Dont take it wrongly please.

 

No, it's cool. I have often thought the same thing actually. I am kind of stuck though because I am on parole and can't travel. Also, I kind of lack faith in the more organized dogmas. This holds me back from attending. I am a free thinker as you know. I am sure I will some day end up applying myself to a tradition. I would hate to just jump into one out of some feeling of fear or anxiety that I will not 'make it.' I want to do it when I am ready and sure of myself - confident that it is the right decision for me. In the meantime I can iron out the wrinkles in my misconceptions to the best of my ability. Being a perennial student who is distanced from the religions and systems one is studying is like floating out in space, orbiting a bunch of spheres of knowledge and tradition. Sooner or later I will make the plunge and dive bomb into one of those spheres and then that's where things will really shake up...I am waiting for the opportune moment.

[RiverSnake]

No, it's cool. I have often thought the same thing actually. I am kind of stuck though because I am on parole and can't travel. Also, I kind of lack faith in the more organized dogmas. This holds me back from attending. I am a free thinker as you know. I am sure I will some day end up applying myself to a tradition. I would hate to just jump into one out of some feeling of fear or anxiety that I will not 'make it.' I want to do it when I am ready and sure of myself - confident that it is the right decision for me. In the meantime I can iron out the wrinkles in my misconceptions to the best of my ability. Being a perennial student who is distanced from the religions and systems one is studying is like floating out in space, orbiting a bunch of spheres of knowledge and tradition. Sooner or later I will make the plunge and dive bomb into one of those spheres and then that's where things will really shake up...I am waiting for the opportune moment.

 

Your response reminds me of a part from Path Notes by Glenn Morris. He equates emptiness meditation as a kind of brain scrub in which you gradually dissolve your inherited social nonsense.

 

"You want a quite, smooth-running brain that allows easy access to what is stored there. A Cadillac engine of the mind. You don't want a sleepy, moody, ignorant, slow, or jerky brain with bad memory as a result of not knowing how to do basic preventative maintenance. It's time to change the oil!! I'll bet you're still clinging to useful thoughts like 2+2=4 even though you had the principles pat for years." Path Notes of an America Ninja Master by Glenn Morris.