Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj and his approach to Advaita Vedanta

[Tibetan_Ice]

http://hridaya-yoga.com/nisargadatta-maharaj-about-love/

[Boy]

...

Edited December 1, 2014 by Boy

[Mark Foote]

"My Guru ordered me to attend to the sense 'I am' and to give attention to nothing else. I just obeyed. I did not follow any particular course of breathing, or meditation, or study of scriptures. Whatever happened, I would turn away my attention from it and remain with the sense 'I am', it may look too simple, even crude. My only reason for doing it was that my Guru told me so. Yet it worked! Obedience is a powerful solvent of all desires and fears."

(that's from here)

 

The key in that short description for me would be the words "the sense 'I am'"-- Nisargadatta is referring to a sense.

 

Among the senses I am drawn to attend to are the ones alluded to in case 37 of the "Blue Cliff Record":

"To unfurl the red flag of victory over your head, whirl the twin swords behind your ears—if not for a discriminating eye and a familiar hand, how could anyone be able to succeed?"

("The Blue Cliff Record", trans. T. and J.C. Cleary, case 37 pg 274)

That would be equilibrioception (through the vestibular organs- the twin swords behind the ears), the relationship between the ocular and the vestibular and proprioceptive senses (the discriminating eye), and the proprioceptive sense (the familiar hand). Unfurling the red flag of victory over one's head I guess I would associate with the relationship between the sense of gravity and the vestibular and proprioceptive senses, the way we fall upright.

Sounds cold, don't it, but what do you think the sense of "I am" is?

"Neuroscientists Olaf Blanke and Christine Mohr hypothesized that the tactile/proprioceptive/kinesthetic and vestibular senses in combination with the ocular sense are principally responsible for what is regarded as the experience of self. Particularly important to their conclusion was the observation that persons who experience themselves as being simultaneously in two places at once (a particular kind of out-of-body experience) appear to have a dysfunction in one or another of these senses."

(that's from here; the paper by Blanke and Mohr is here)

Edited November 5, 2014 by Mark Foote

[3bob]

3bob,

 

I AM being polite and I WAS being polite....honestly.

 

You are taking things I post as if I posted them in an agressive mode and I never meant it as such.........Sorry, it's your perception sir, not mine.

 

Furthermore, I was referring to doing a comparative spiritual/religious study of both systems concurrently.

Examining both beliefs via similar, IF possible, terminology..seeing where they agree and disagree.

 

There is nothing "wrong" with that and IMHO it should be encouraged in order to promote a healthy understanding of a particular spirituality's worldview for those who don't hold it.

 

Stefos

 

P.S. I'm not a New Ager and therefore won't mish-mash things together, I assure you.

 

Have a wonderful evening and a great tomorrow.

 

Stefos,

 

1. We never had a "blowout" in the past or recently as far as I'm concerned.

2. Apparently you see no problem with another round of dilution and or violence taking place in the Hindu Forum whereas I do.

(which btw. has already happened in this string)

3. And if you do not see any problem with such dubious dilutions then it follows that that way of thinking also eliminates the need for any of the other sub-forums being that your type of thinking would also apply to them, which I believe many would disagree with; thus and again I say take the Buddhist or other forms related to the comparison process either to the Buddhist forum or general forum where in can be hashed out per-same.

[stefos]

Stefos,

 

1. We never had a "blowout" in the past or recently as far as I'm concerned.

2. Apparently you see no problem with another round of dilution and or violence taking place in the Hindu Forum whereas I do.

(which btw. has already happened in this string)

3. And if you do not see any problem with such dubious dilutions then it follows that that way of thinking also eliminates the need for any of the other sub-forums being that your type of thinking would also apply to them, which I believe many would disagree with; thus and again I say take the Buddhist or other forms related to the comparison process either to the Buddhist forum or general forum where in can be hashed out per-same.

 

Hi 3bob,

 

I understand your perspective and respect it sir.

 

I will concede to your request but still feel that this analysis could happen here.

 

Have a nice night,

Stefos

[3bob]

Ok and thank you for that Stefos, have a good night also.

[Tibetan_Ice]

 

Now youre just mixing barely serviceable translations of Ramanas words with the laughable rubbish of Devaraja Mudaliar. Also, please keep your "discoveries" to yourself. Talk like that is what puts genuine seekers years behind.

You're right! You prove it! Reading my experiences has set you back spiritually several years, if not decades. It has also seemed to stilt your intelligence!

[Boy]

...

Edited December 1, 2014 by Boy

[Tibetan_Ice]

If you knew yourself for even one moment, if you could just glimpse your most beautiful face, maybe you wouldnt slumber so deeply in that house of clay. Why not move into your house of joy and shine into every crevice! For you are the secret Treasure-bearer, and always have been. Didnt you know? ~Rumi

[stefos]

Hi Tibetan Ice,

 

Sir, I believe you are a male so I address you from this understanding, I'd like to share something with you:

 

When we share something, we should give the information clearly, and immediately step back.

 

If the person we've shared with is interested then we continue sharing lovingly (selfless love), if not we wish them well and finish the sharing.

 

Allowing ourselves to yield to baseness does no good for ourselves nor for others.

My experience has shown me that people who are non-spiritual & fault finders position themselves in an antagonists' role/position to deliberately "push buttons" and provoke, typically not caring about the other person at all.

 

I'm done!

 

Have a great day tomorrow

Stefos

[Tibetan_Ice]

Hi Tibetan Ice,

 

Sir, I believe you are a male so I address you from this understanding, I'd like to share something with you:

 

When we share something, we should give the information clearly, and immediately step back.

 

If the person we've shared with is interested then we continue sharing lovingly (selfless love), if not we wish them well and finish the sharing.

 

Allowing ourselves to yield to baseness does no good for ourselves nor for others.

My experience has shown me that people who are non-spiritual & fault finders position themselves in an antagonists' role/position to deliberately "push buttons" and provoke, typically not caring about the other person at all.

 

I'm done!

 

Have a great day tomorrow

Stefos

Sometimes people need a good kick in the ass to wake them up. That's why there are wrathful deities in buddhism. That's why there are gurus that shoot and attack their disciples. That's why the zen masters hit their students with sticks. That's why Buddhists yell out PHAT when they are most calm. That why Tilopa and Naropa behaved like lunatics. That's why the Bon masters are feared, their lunacy serves as a testament of their realization.

 

Don't believe that a fake loving attitude will do anybody any good. It's a form of hypocrisy.

 

Life loves you with all its being. But it still lets you get sick, suffer and die.

 

Save your advice for someone whom is willing to listen..

[Wayfarer]

Zen masters hit people with sticks, slap them and shout at them out of love. They see in that moment, through compassion that what this person needs is a slap to Awaken them. Ultimately, a Master's love is without object, there is no love for something or anger about something present for they have realised there is only a single Something and the master and student are That.

 

Those who experience such Selflessness fill with its Beauty as the more it is experienced the greater it unfolds through them.

 

Whether we are angry and pushing buttons, or loving and caring; these are expressions of That which is neither awake nor deluded. When this is known, we experience a nice Ease.

[Wayfarer]

I also want to add that to be always loving to people or to be always angry and frustrated with them comes from the identity with the ego-self. To respond in the moment without a pre-conceived idea is to be spontaneous. In reacting in that way, we are not always the same, ultimately, the more our practice works for us, the greater we act through the tranquil still nature of what we are.

[idiot_stimpy]

My Guru told me: ...Go back to that state of pure being, where the I am is still in its purity before it got contaminated with I am this or I am that. Your burden is of false self-identificationsabandon them all. My guru told me, Trust me, I tell you: you are Divine. Take it as the absolute truth. Your joy is divine, your suffering is divine too. All comes from God. Remember it always. You are God, your will alone is done. I did believe him and soon realized how wonderfully true and accurate were his words. I did not condition my mind by thinking, I am God, I am wonderful, I am beyond. I simply followed his instruction, which was to focus the mind on pure being, I am, and stay in it. I used to sit for hours together, with nothing but the I am in my mind and soon the peace and joy and deep all-embracing love became my normal state. In it all disappearedmyself, my guru, the life I lived, the world around me. Only peace remained, and unfathomable silence. (I Am That, Dialogue 51, April 16, 1971).[web 7]

 

Thank you for sharing.

[stefos]

Sometimes people need a good kick in the ass to wake them up. That's why there are wrathful deities in buddhism. That's why there are gurus that shoot and attack their disciples. That's why the zen masters hit their students with sticks. That's why Buddhists yell out PHAT when they are most calm. That why Tilopa and Naropa behaved like lunatics. That's why the Bon masters are feared, their lunacy serves as a testament of their realization.

 

Don't believe that a fake loving attitude will do anybody any good. It's a form of hypocrisy.

 

Life loves you with all its being. But it still lets you get sick, suffer and die.

 

Save your advice for someone whom is willing to listen..

 

Hi T.I. ,

 

I understand your perspective but your not enlightened!

 

You are not a Geshe, Lama nor a Rinpoche nor a Siddha nor a Mahasiddha.......... you are No - thing.

 

Therefore you should change your attitude because it doesn't reflect compassion but anger....period.

 

Now, save that lesson for yourself.

 

Stefos

[Tibetan_Ice]

 

Hi T.I. ,

 

I understand your perspective but your not enlightened!

 

You are not a Geshe, Lama nor a Rinpoche nor a Siddha nor a Mahasiddha.......... you are No - thing.

 

Therefore you should change your attitude because it doesn't reflect compassion but anger....period.

 

Now, save that lesson for yourself.

 

Stefos

You are right. I am nothing. Why does nothing bother you so much?

[Mark Foote]

"Deliverance from thought without grasping" was something Gautama the Buddha spoke of, sounds similar to:

 

"I used to sit for hours together, with nothing but the I am in my mind and soon the peace and joy and deep all-embracing love became my normal state. In it all disappeared: myself, my guru, the life I lived, the world around me. Only peace remained, and unfathomable silence."

Maybe there comes a moment when the mind assumes its natural role among the senses, and maybe that role is sometimes deliverance from thought without grasping for hours. Maybe there is a time and place for everything, after all:

 

'Nan-yueh said, "Practice and verification are not nonexistent, they are not to be defiled."''

Edited November 10, 2014 by Mark Foote

[3bob]

"Deliverance from thought without grasping" was something Gautama the Buddha spoke of, sounds similar to:

 

"I used to sit for hours together, with nothing but the I am in my mind and soon the peace and joy and deep all-embracing love became my normal state. In it all disappeared: myself, my guru, the life I lived, the world around me. Only peace remained, and unfathomable silence."

Maybe there comes a moment when the mind assumes its natural role among the senses, and maybe that role is sometimes deliverance from thought without grasping for hours. Maybe there is a time and place for everything, after all:

 

'Nan-yueh said, "Practice and verification are not nonexistent, they are not to be defiled."''

 

Nice quotes Mark, and I believe that when such peace and purity related to silence is present in the midst of or along with a working and compassionate connection to all worlds and beings then all is truly in sync, (namely the manifest and transcendent) thus not just withdrawal to a cocoon of peace and silence... (since it sounds to me like the author is implying one and then the other?)

Edited November 10, 2014 by 3bob

[Mark Foote]

Nice quotes Mark, and I believe that when such peace and purity related to silence is present in the midst of or along with a working and compassionate connection to all worlds and beings then all is truly in sync, (namely the manifest and transcendent) thus not just withdrawal to a cocoon of peace and silence... (since it sounds to me like the author is implying one and then the other?)

 

As far as "practice and verification"? Yes it does sound like ol' Nan-yueh is speaking of two distinct phenomena that are linearly related. I know Gautama spoke of "knowledge and freedom" as the nineth and tenth elements of the path leading to the cessation of suffering for the adept; that sounds very similar, although whether or not practice has anything to do with knowledge, and verification with freedom, I couldn't say. I'm sure I'll be thinking about that. When I'm thinking.

 

I should mention that as far as I'm concerned, the cessation of suffering is only a concern when suffering exists; Gautama's four truths about suffering only have meaning if suffering exists. As opposed to the "unenlightened life is suffering, but once you get the sense of "I am" you are out that door nevermore to be burdened" point of view. If there's suffering, then knowledge and freedom can be realized, practice and verification can be undefiled, the path leading to the cessation of suffering has meaning. Not a thing to be desired, knowledge and freedom, practice and verification, but very likely coming to a being in the neighborhood, soon.

Edited November 10, 2014 by Mark Foote

[3bob]

I would agree with your last paragraph in the sense that the "first noble truth" would then become enlightenment and not suffering.

 

But now I'm drifting into Buddhism which I said I wouldn't do in the Hinduism sub-forum....

[stefos]

You are right. I am nothing. Why does nothing bother you so much?

 

The issue isn't me...It's your mindstream.

 

If you're an actual Dzogchenpa then it will concern you.

 

You're expressing anger.....Say the wrong thing to the wrong person and you might end up in "hell on earth."

I would spare you that.

 

Language/speech is reflective of one's consciousness, be it conscious decision or non-conscious reaction.

 

That's all sir.........I wrote it for your (relatively speaking of course) benefit.

 

Have a great evening!

Stefos

[wangchungman]

Sometimes people need a good kick in the ass to wake them up. That's why there are wrathful deities in buddhism. That's why there are gurus that shoot and attack their disciples. That's why the zen masters hit their students with sticks. That's why Buddhists yell out PHAT when they are most calm. That why Tilopa and Naropa behaved like lunatics. That's why the Bon masters are feared, their lunacy serves as a testament of their realization.

 

Don't believe that a fake loving attitude will do anybody any good. It's a form of hypocrisy.

 

Life loves you with all its being. But it still lets you get sick, suffer and die.

 

Save your advice for someone whom is willing to listen..

Dispensed rarely on a well timed occasion.

[stefos]

Dispensed rarely on a well timed occasion.

I'm not sure if you are chastizing Tibetan Ice or are merely being rhetorical but....

 

This thread needs to move along!

 

So,Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj advocated a direct experience via bringing the mind back to perception of "what is."

 

However my experience has been that at a certain point, the dualistic mind wants to "overcome" the duality by jumping through intellectual hoops due to various arguments.

 

Comments?

Stefos

Edited November 22, 2014 by stefos

[Boy]

...

Edited December 1, 2014 by Boy

[Kasuku]

Nisargardatta's method and Ramana's, are exactly the the SAME. Both give the instruction to seek the source of the I-amness.

All you must do is abide as the Self.

Once you have the firm knowledge that you are the Self and not the body it isnt long before the knowledge transmutes into non-knowledge (only the Self state).

The source of I, is the Heart, pure awareness, pure being. Abiding as that quickly destroys the ego. (i amness).. where there is no I-amness it will be impossible for thoughts to form. You will be like space yet not the space. There is no limit to your Being. You are IT. eternal and ever lasting. You always were. it was the "i am" that was the sole illusion.