Some Questions About Meditation

[DreamBliss]

In many of the spiritual books I read I keep encountering this advice to, "Oberve you thoughts..." Over and over I see this, yet I have yet to encounter instructions as to how one does this.

 

In my mind, right now, if there are thoughts, I am not aware of them. But I am aware of my mental jukebox currently playing a song by Loreen. I can hear her voice, hear the song just like it sounds playing on speakers. Word for word sometimes.

 

Currently in my meditation practice I tune into all the things going on around me, usually at an audio level. Right now that would be traffic going by and the children upstairs playing. I just tune into these sounds and listen to them, allow them to be there. There may be a thought on the sound, and I might see or partially hear the word, but that's it.

 

I think when this is done right the sounds just sort of fade. Like you notice them and then you no longer notice them after a time. But how exactly do I see the thought of Loreen's song playing? How do I observe music? Furthermore, how to I observe thoughts happening?

 

I keep getting told that after you do this there is a sense of space. You get a taste of whatever lies beyond thought. I have been meditating for a few years now and experienced nothing like that. Not seeking it either. Just never had that experience.

 

The way it is said it seems as if this is something that should happen right away. Like you sit down, close your eyes, observe your thoughts and click. I never seem to get to the observe your thoughts stage.

 

I have asked questions about meditation before, received lots of suggestions and video links. But I still don't get this. What is the exact process of looking inside and watching ones thoughts, as if one were separate from them? Because that is what I need to experience. I don't seek it either. but I know I need it. I need to get to this place where I know, not just believe or have faith, that I am not my thoughts. I never seem to get there.

 

I have no experience, so sense, of not being this. So I remain trapped, and I wish to be free. I want to experience for myself that I am not my thoughts, that there is something outside of them, and I have no expectations of what that is, just that there is something outside my thoughts, and that I am not whet I think.

 

Yes, I am reading Tolle's The Power of Now as suggested, if there is any relation between this and one of my other recent threads.

 

Thank you for your help and patience.

Edited October 28, 2014 by DreamBliss

[Chang]

To observe your thoughts means just that.

 

By being the Observer or Witness of that which you are thinking you have seperated yourself from it.

 

This leads you to the knowledge that you are not your thoughts. It is a great step forwards when you can acknowledge this fact as most people never manage to get this far.

 

Observation of your thoughts is a simple matter. Do not for one moment imagine that there is more to it than the simple act of observation for there is not.

[Seeker of Wisdom]

You're doing it just fine.

 

If you were told to observe clouds, would you doubt whether or not you were actually seeing them? No, look in the sky and they're there.

 

Similarly, if you observe your mind you may notice thoughts, images, memories, desires, emotions, sounds, etc. You don't need to do anything special to notice these things. If you are happy or you want to buy cheese, you don't need to go get a quick MRI to find out.

 

You have mental awareness, just as you have sensory awareness. This practice is just paying attention to mental awareness, without trying to control or change or evaluate or understand it.

 

You don't need to try to feel like a separate observer. You don't need to contrive anything like that. Just experience directly.

 

If after a while you still have a lot of doubts, you could try observing something a bit more concrete instead, such as the breath.

[nestentrie]

71
To want to agree and yet also acknowledge that we will not always be accepted is the highest preference. Meanwhile, to not acknowledge, and yet still need that we could secure belief is but corrupted virtue.
It is by being apprehensive at the thought of the latter condition that the Sage should be preserved from it. The sage shall have not the corruption. He acknowledges the pain that might be inseperable from it, and therefore will not take it.

71
To want to accept and yet also believe that we shall not always be agreed with is the highest preference. Meanwhile, to not believe, and yet still need that we might secure acknowledgement is but corrupted superiority.
It is by being apprehensive at the thought of the latter condition that the Sage would be preserved from it. The Sage will have not the corruption. He believes that pain could be inseperable from it, and so therefore cannot take it.

71
To want to believe and yet also accept that we may not always be acknowledged is the highest preference. Meanwhile, to not accept, and yet still need that we should secure agreement is but corrupted excellence.
It is by being apprehensive at the thought of the latter condition that the Sage could be preserved from it. The Sage can have not the corruption. He accepts the pain that would be inseperable from it, and therefore will not take it.

71
To want to acknowledge and yet also agree that we cannot always be believed is the highest preference. Meanwhile, to not agree, and still need that we would secure acceptance is but corrupted beauty.
It is by being apprehensive at the thought of the latter condition that the Sage might be preserved from it. The Sage may not have the corruption. He agrees that the pain of it should be inseperable from it, and so therefore shall not take it.

 

Take your pick...

[soaring crane]

What is the exact process of looking inside and watching ones thoughts, as if one were separate from them? Because that is what I need to experience. I don't seek it either. but I know I need it.

 

maybe you're blocking yourself with these conflicting ... thoughts.

 

I sense on the one hand your deep, intuitive insights and on the other hand a mixed-bag of information from outside sources. For example:

 

 

I need to get to this place where I know, not just believe or have faith, that I am not my thoughts.

 

That's a learned approach. You've read that over and over and think it must be true. But on some level, you see a flaw in it, because it is flawed thinking.

 

Your description of your meditations sounds quite good to me. I don't think you need to ask for more and more advice here. The only element you might want to add is non-judgement. You can observe or not observe as the wind blows, just don't judge. Don't react. Smile :-)

[Anoesjka]

You can first try to give yourself the assignment to notice the very first thought that arises. You can also try to sense where thoughts are coming from. It's not really that hard, it just requires some mindfulness and not being completely occupied by your emotions and thoughts.

[The Tao Of Alex]

Hi DreamBliss. I understand where you're coming from with your questions. One of your statements 'I wish to be free' may be a bit of an impediment. I think we all have this desire, and that may be an issue. We require 'effortless effort' yet this doesn't always come easy to us, although ultimately if we have a personal insight, this is our true nature.

I feel that 'the observe your thoughts' advice inherently puts too much emphasis on the 'active' observe. In my meditation practices, it's 'notice' the thoughts, but let them pass on, like they are a flowing river.

Some people who 'sit' in meditation have difficulty in experiencing their crystal clear awareness only because as a people we're usually very active, and as a society in general we are frenetically on the go. This has obvious implications on our practice.

I know.

As an alternative form of meditation practice, the Buddhist walking meditation has an active efficacy for those who are a busy type or find themselves too preoccupied on certain days to sit. The physical aspect of walking in this type of meditation adds another 'layer' of help to 'distract the mind' from thoughts flitting by.

Another alternative is to read Douglas Harding's: The Headless Way: Zen and the Rediscovery of the Obvious. You are literally asked to imagine that you have no head, walk around like this during the day and in your meditation! You will quickly see how transparent 'you' are, and you will notice those thoughts floating by...

Anyway I hope this helps a bit, sorry for carrying on so long...

Cheers

Alex

[Anoesjka]

Another alternative is to read Douglas Harding's: The Headless Way: Zen and the Rediscovery of the Obvious. You are literally asked to imagine that you have no head, walk around like this during the day and in your meditation! You will quickly see how transparent 'you' are, and you will notice those thoughts floating by...

 

Ooh, that sounds nice! Zen always has this humor aspect to it that makes it "light".

[Jetsun]

The headless way isn't about imagining you have no head, its about being brutally honest about what you really know and can perceive in the moment. The imagination doesn't come in to it.

 

To the OP it sounds like you have seen straight through the flaws in those methods and need more direct teachings. By the sounds of things you already have plenty of recommendations but I will give you one more which is Adyashanti whose clarity and understanding is hard to rival in my experience, he has a book and mp3 set called "True meditation" which I can recommend.

[soaring crane]

Ooh, that sounds nice! Zen always has this humor aspect to it that makes it "light".

 

hmmm... I can think of a few adjectives to attach to Zen, but light wouldn't one of them, lol.

[C T]

Why do you think that? Im really interested to know

 

 

short answer: ZaZen haha

[forestofclarity]

In my experience, thoughts come in three basic flavors: inner visuals, inner sounds, and inner feelings. You don't necessarily "see" all of your inner thoughts. Listening to your inner jukebox IS observing your thoughts, in that case, sound. Personally, many of my inner thoughts are visual. For my others, there may be a lot of sound, or feeling. It sounds like you're doing it right.

 

I wouldn't worry about what you've been told should happen, it is more looking to see what is happening.

[DreamBliss]

I started this thread after reading one section in, "The Power of Now" then today I read the next section. He has pauses in between so I pause and sit with what I have read. In any case the next section brought me to my answer.

 

I realized that I tend to speak my thoughts out loud. I don't know why I do this, but I guess initially it was to be aware of what I was thinking, as if vocalizing my thoughts would make me more aware, and I don't think this was conscious or anything, It's like there's a memory there but its too slippery to grasp at this moment. Whatever the reason, I was fooling myself that I was being aware of my thoughts, or had no thoughts, when they were coming out of my mouth!

 

So I just started the practice of of observing my thoughts. It was kind of strange at first, because there is that tendency initially to speak them out loud, but somehow observing them makes me not want to speak them. Hard to explain. Now I can sort of hear my voice in my head saying stuff. I guess its the voice of my physical body, not really my voice. I can see it will be like any habit. I will have to practice for some time until it comes naturally.

 

So for now I will practice awareness whenever I remember to do so, then attend, yes I attend is a better word, to them without attachment, aversion, criticism or judgment.

 

I will come back with a status update once I try this for my first meditation practice of the day.

Edited October 29, 2014 by DreamBliss

[thelerner]

What the guys above said.

 

I'll add this. Before I meditate I'll often start with a vispasana style preamble. Which sets me up for a quieter mind.

 

I am not my body- I am that which inhabits it.

I'm not my thoughts- they are like clouds passing through the sky.

I am not my emotions- I acknowledge them and let them pass like ripples in a pond.

I am not my past- those are old memories and patterns I can choose not to repeat.

I am not my future- that is projections and fears that mean nothing.

... I am breath and awareness

 

depending on my time and mood I might add a little more to it. The exercise tends to start my mind off quieter. Sets a good mood for my meditation.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

"Be aware of the arising, the presence, the dissipation, and the cessation."

 

Try this with feelings/emotions. Imo, thoughts come from the heart but don't fully manifest until they get to the head. This is supported by Taoist literature.

 

Be aware of your feelings which are in the process of turning into thoughts and you will eventually catch up. Don't try to control them though. Just "ah some anger is coming about that thing that happened yesterday; I'm angry about that; I'm letting it go; I'm not angry any more."

 

Keeping a watch for these "arisings" is one way to find that "observer." At some point you might just be observing feelings and not even thoughts. These feelings are like Spring starting in February - not really there, but beginning.

[Rara]

I have asked questions about meditation before, received lots of suggestions and video links. But I still don't get this. What is the exact process of looking inside and watching ones thoughts, as if one were separate from them? Because that is what I need to experience. I don't seek it either. but I know I need it. I need to get to this place where I know, not just believe or have faith, that I am not my thoughts. I never seem to get there.

 

Yes, exactly that. We are separate from them!

 

There is you and then the thoughts around - you simply cannot trace the root of those thoughts, but you can be aware that they are there.

 

And you can be aware of how they make you react. Then you can also be aware that you reaction is a choice and that those thoughts are not you, just simply presented in front of you.

 

Let me know if you understand now...you're so close!

[Rara]

I started this thread after reading one section in, "The Power of Now" then today I read the next section. He has pauses in between so I pause and sit with what I have read. In any case the next section brought me to my answer.

 

I realized that I tend to speak my thoughts out loud. I don't know why I do this, but I guess initially it was to be aware of what I was thinking, as if vocalizing my thoughts would make me more aware, and I don't think this was conscious or anything, It's like there's a memory there but its too slippery to grasp at this moment. Whatever the reason, I was fooling myself that I was being aware of my thoughts, or had no thoughts, when they were coming out of my mouth!

 

So I just started the practice of of observing my thoughts. It was kind of strange at first, because there is that tendency initially to speak them out loud, but somehow observing them makes me not want to speak them. Hard to explain. Now I can sort of hear my voice in my head saying stuff. I guess its the voice of my physical body, not really my voice. I can see it will be like any habit. I will have to practice for some time until it comes naturally.

 

So for now I will practice awareness whenever I remember to do so, then attend, yes I attend is a better word, to them without attachment, aversion, criticism or judgment.

 

I will come back with a status update once I try this for my first meditation practice of the day.

 

Come to think of it, when I began mindfulness practice, I had to do running commentary. Even when going to the fride, I would describe me opening it, what I was looking for, what I was reaching for etc. This helped me to stop getting lost in daydreams and mental conflicts...

 

So I hear where you're coming from with your vocal ange. Each to their own!

[Songtsan]

 

 

I can see my thoughts easily in my self-talk in my head, even to the point of noticing sublingual vocalizations..underneath the words are more subtle impulses which carry feeling urges which are wrapped around concepts of desire objectives..I think that underneath these are pure undiluted emotions which are pre-conceptual and not linked to objectives.

 

So you don't hear your own voice in your head when you contemplate?

 

If you sit there and hold the intention to observe those feelings wrapped with desire objectives, those are your thoughts...wordless (not having been capped by labels), yet containing the essence of the intended action-based desire to 'do something,' even if that 'doing something' is simply to make a statement to yourself in your head.

 

I would also add that thoughts can occur anywhere in the nervous system. They are not just localized in the brain. In fact, if you believe that we have bodies beyond this one, such as astral body, causal body, etc...they can occur here too...when you start watching them, you will find them especially in the heart area, bubbling up from below...

Edited October 29, 2014 by Songtsan

[lifeforce]

'Who' is having these thoughts ?

[Anoesjka]

Stimulus from our senses, emotions, thoughts that try to impose a meaning on those in the form of symbols or language, thoughts that latch on to thoughts. Layers of mind, and an addiction to thinking, because we have learned nothing else.

 

I think observing one's own mind should be taught early on in school.