Kunlun Seminars

[sheng zhen]

What else are you looking for? Kunlun is the root. Everything comes from the root. When you have the root you have everything you need. It is much more than just bliss.

 

You must first be a student before you can become a teacher. Don't be in too much of a hurry to become a teacher. After you thoroughly understand Kunlun would be an appropriate time to decide to teach it. Maybe three years.

 

You have to go through the process and the changes so that you understand what others will experience. Then you can safely guide them.

 

The website shows some pictures of teachers in Japan. Are there many people in Japan doing Kunlun?

[Mantra68]

The website shows some pictures of teachers in Japan. Are there many people in Japan doing Kunlun?

Max has taught there for the past three years. He has thousands of students in Japan.

[Wun Yuen Gong]

Mantra

 

Was curious to see if Kunlun had anything else, i teach many different things and i havent started any of the kunlun seriously i have many meditation and chi kung practises. I will love to see max when he comes to oz and see for myself as well feel before i would comment on kunlun bliss. I get bliss through my own systems!

 

I asked that one day who knows if i take it up and think its worth teaching i wouldnt mind spreading it here, but i have my own arts to master at present. Plus i dont learn from books!

 

respectfully

WYG

[三江源]

.

Edited July 18, 2014 by cat

[Mal]

Please don't send our copyrighted material through the web.

 

O.k. to share experiences, O.k. to share the book, No PDF's etc.

 

No worries.

 

 

mmmmmmmmmm,

 

Golden cock.

 

But I don't know if putting your bodyweight on kidney one while doing that posture would be very "blissful"

[Trunk]

... an effort to share some of the MOST secret esoteric energetic practices EVER created. Again it is from people who don't practice Kunlun, which means it is really just worthless opinion.

It'd be a lot easier to participate, like, support your efforts if you didn't have the attitude of a born-again Christian. The personality issues seem entrenched, unlikely to change. On that basis there'll be unending skirmishes at the perimeter of your school, and around you here at TTBs. Have you considered making your own forum? Here, your playing at sheriff is a joke, but if you had your own place you could actually impose your own rules. Less annoyance for you, less for us.

[gendao]

It'd be a lot easier to participate, like, support your efforts if you didn't have the attitude of a born-again Christian. The personality issues seem entrenched, unlikely to change. On that basis there'll be unending skirmishes at the perimeter of your school, and around you here at TTBs. Have you considered making your own forum? Here, your playing at sheriff is a joke, but if you had your own place you could actually impose your own rules. Less annoyance for you, less for us.

I think personality conflicts are always inevitable.

 

In fact, I think many are "by design."

 

I have a hunch that we often keep putting ourselves in the same situations, sometimes over several lifetimes, in order to test our patience and push our own buttons on key challenges to our personas. I made this "realization" recently (don't know how accurate it is). But if it's true, I laughed to myself, because I then realized that many of my persistent frustrations in life (and past ones) were not merely unlucky circumstance, but of my own doing. And all different permutations of the same basic issue.

 

If so, one might analyze their frustrations and see if there is a recurring pattern around a certain issue. And then get to the root of it. Because really that's the whole point for its repetitiveness. Until we resolve it, we will keep repeating it. In this case, confronting and recognizance may be better than running away and disengaging.

 

I dunno, just my 2 centavos..

Edited November 6, 2007 by vortex

[Yoda]

Have you considered making your own forum?

 

 

I think this is eventually where all this is going. It's just like SeanD's group setting up their own forum so they can get past all the intro debate and get deeper into the discussion.

 

I think all this is really helpful to get the word out, get feedback for the next book, etc. in the meantime.

[DentyDao]

Hi Chris (Mantra68),

 

I attended one of Max's seminars and enjoyed being there; thanx for your part in helping get the word out about Max.

 

I have enjoyed reading through your writing here and gained some insight into my own experiences here from reading what you have to say about your teacher.

 

What you are doing is basically a waste of time and energy compared to what you could be doing to get the word out about Max and eventually you will burn out here and realize the truth of these statements. People are blocked from seeing what Taoism really is based on conditioning that they aren't aware of yet. They will always see you from a fear perspective, because they believe you have something they want and are trying to manipulate them. This is a basic pattern of human behavior. The rest are already supporting you and actively participating.

 

"If one's words are not better than silence, one should keep silent." -Caine

 

What I have found is simply that those who are drawn to Max, or any teacher for that matter, were drawn from the beginning and from your initial presentation here and also Max-from-NY's good reviews. Your time would be better spent writing a book about your experiences or publishing a blog/forum and sharing your insights. You would reach a far greater audience and help your teacher much more skillfully that way.

 

Also, all of the above activities would be insignificant compared to the benifit you could share by going deeper into your own practice and helping carry on your lineage when Max is gone.

 

Think on these things.

 

Cheers, S

Edited November 6, 2007 by seandenty

[Mantra68]

I hear ya boys. Just trying to help. Probably care too much but I learn a lot too.

 

Interacting with the folks here gives me a great deal of insight into how to deal with people of all types. I only want to help share these wonderful gifts. If there are flaws in my approach then I learn and adjust. It is all really good.

 

I am used to sitting in the mountains with my teacher and a few others learning and practicing esoteric energy methods and watching the stars, so the public thing is new.

 

Drawing from tradition only helps a little when trying to share these things because the world is not a temple environment. Perfect communication is necessary. I see misunderstanding as poor communication and I want to right it.

 

As you have seen, I have tried to give what I could in every case. Different people require a different approach. Sometimes you anger the impatient, other times you have something well received. Bridging gaps is a great challenge and also very rewarding.

 

I put myself on the line without fear, because I believe in everybody. We all have the ability to unlock our own mystery.

 

If I get put through the grinder with some people that's OK, because I am not afraid to stir the pot to spark debate on the subject of awakening. The fact that I haven't been sick in the six years since starting to practice Kunlun (I used to get sick several times each year) is reason enough to fuel my drive in bringing this info out.

 

I have seen things that I can't ever talk about because no one would believe me. Realities that I believe we will all soon share as our world accelerates further into a higher vibration.

 

Who we are, what we are, and where we come from is much different than what we have been led to believe.

 

It will only get more interesting.

 

Cheers!

[rain]

I think personality conflicts are always inevitable.

 

In fact, I think many are "by design."

 

I have a hunch that we often keep putting ourselves in the same situations, sometimes over several lifetimes, in order to test our patience and push our own buttons on key challenges to our personas. I made this "realization" recently (don't know how accurate it is). But if it's true, I laughed to myself, because I then realized that many of my persistent frustrations in life (and past ones) were not merely unlucky circumstance, but of my own doing. And all different permutations of the same basic issue.

 

If so, one might analyze their frustrations and see if there is a recurring pattern around a certain issue. And then get to the root of it. Because really that's the whole point for its repetitiveness. Until we resolve it, we will keep repeating it. In this case, confronting and recognizance may be better than running away and disengaging.

 

I dunno, just my 2 centavos..

 

tossing your 2 centavos into the air watching the sunrays hit and spread light. happy heart.

play, patterns discipline.

pancakes?

Edited November 7, 2007 by rain

[lockpaw]

Hi Chris (Mantra68),

 

What you are doing is basically a waste of time and energy compared to what you could be doing to get the word out about Max and eventually you will burn out here and realize the truth of these statements. People are blocked from seeing what Taoism really is based on conditioning that they aren't aware of yet. They will always see you from a fear perspective, because they believe you have something they want and are trying to manipulate them. This is a basic pattern of human behavior. The rest are already supporting you and actively participating.

 

"If one's words are not better than silence, one should keep silent." -Caine

 

This from the guy with 450 posts.

 

Chris has something that is found lacking in your posts: genuine sincerity. Quite different from your often arrogant, demeaning, elitist posts. Maybe if you stopped teaching everyone all the time, you might accidentally learn something.

[Mantra68]

It'd be a lot easier to participate, like, support your efforts if you didn't have the attitude of a born-again Christian. The personality issues seem entrenched, unlikely to change. On that basis there'll be unending skirmishes at the perimeter of your school, and around you here at TTBs. Have you considered making your own forum? Here, your playing at sheriff is a joke, but if you had your own place you could actually impose your own rules. Less annoyance for you, less for us.

Keith,

I have considered your comments carefully over the past few days. Honestly, I didn't realize that I was so annoying to you and it caused some concern.

 

First I must say that I have no desire to "sheriff" anything or anyone around here, so that assessment of my motivation is off. I have responded honestly and always in the spirit of service. I have given much of my time and answered a bunch of questions for people. I know that my enthusiasm and drive to connect with other spiritual seekers is appreciated by at least some of the people here and that is good enough for me.

 

So, I looked at why you might have that impression of me, especially after I have personally extended a genuine concern for your health and well being. But each time I read your post I kept seeing a large, angry, intimidating ape delivering the message from the left side of my peripheral vision. Suddenly I understood that perhaps it is this big bossy ape (the avatar you chose to represent your voice) that has the problem. Because I have met you and you are a sweet guy (sorry to out you) but apparently you feel like the "Silverback of knowledge" in this forum.

 

It makes sense then that my presence might be perceived as stepping on your toes and that you would naturally encourage me to LEAVE "your" forum.

 

That's a shame because I have been quite clear that I respect you and I personally think it is great that we have different perspectives on similar things. It helps create a more complete picture and that is the whole point.

 

So you might want to think about what drives your inner alpha-monkey and I'll think about whether or not I need to create a heavily armed, bi-plane avatar.

 

Smell you later Kong.

 

 

 

"When we point our finger, three fingers point back at us."

[rain]

Edited November 8, 2007 by rain

[Trunk]

Chris,

 

You have many good attributes, I basically feel and think that you're a good guy, and that you're doing fundamentally good work here: the method is a gem, imo Max is unusually accomplished, etc.

 

What I find annoying is that you are over-enthused to the point that you're not employing your ability to listen enough. Not able to relax and be just one of the guys here (and I'm talking only about this venue). You are so on a mission that it's over-bearing. (All that is what I meant by the "born-again Christian" reference.) The method is a sweet one, and I think if you took it from 4-5th gear down to 2nd & 3rd more often .. this whole thing would take off better, with less effort.

 

I do find that the scholarly explanation is not your strong suit. It doesn't have to be, you could be more often modest on that part (which you occasionally are). Add to that there is so many highly sensational esoteric claims, that then you have to back up in conversation - it's too big a load. I think you should just be more sensitive to when you should go out on an esoteric intellectual branch or not. Personally, I think the beauty of this method is the simple, less sensational: basic harmonious blending, gradual healing.

 

The sensationalism does irritate me. My opinion is that there's plenty of wildly esotericly exotic goings on, genuinely. But at the same time I feel like there's more than twice as much song and dance as there needs to be. Then that gets tangled with the scholarly sketchy parts and that's when I get frustrated. I think that at least half of the people who get frustrated with the presentation have a more serious & scholarly temperament. (Not that your group isn't great, healing and fun, for those that naturally groove with it.)

 

And that you've not yet taken to the art of turning "mildly frustrated critics" into "constructive critics who are on your side". But that is a demanding art (patience, etc.). But you are currently turning critics into mild enemies. People are starting to throw their lunch fruit.

 

Somehow I get the feeling that if - in several ways - you put in half the effort you could go a third further, with much less wear and tear.

 

Anyway, I've got no summary, and I'm not sure that anything I wrote has a point.

Hopefully it does, I'm too tired to re-re-read it. (But I probably will .. )

 

Keith

[thelerner]

I look forward to the Phoenix seminar. This site is great for the exchange of ideas, but lets face it. 80% of communication is lost through its no nuance, slow mo, untonal method. Often a 5 minute conversation can work out a months worth of contentious posts.

 

Chris, no matter what the rough spots, you've succeeded in turning many of us on to Kunlun, or at least make us curious to give it a chance. This is a good place for you for other reasons. You have people here with wide experience from all sorts of practices and walks of life. The feedback you get (great,good,bad&ugly) would eventually hit you any way. So you're getting a concentrated dose of what you'll have to handle in the future.

 

See you in Phoenix. Some of us will be hanging out at a pool place across the street from the books store after Max's Friday lecture, it would great if you could join us.

 

 

Michael

[rex]

 

 

[gendao]

Anytime you assemble a group of people, you will have personality conflicts - whether it be a Kunlun workshop or a bowling league. Anyhow, I don't think conflict is necessarily bad - and can often even be good. As long as we don't lose sight of the message in lieu of the messengers.

[Sahaj Nath]

i'm glad you wrote that, trunk.

 

this is probably more tactful than my temperament would have allowed.

 

i think this is pretty much right-on.

 

 

it just doesn't cut it for me (or a lot of others) when the intellectual depth is being compensated for by sensationalism and fluff. then it comes across to we folk who 'think too much' as deceitful when there are also statements like:

 

 

"we are taught that if phenomena occur to just ignore them and not become attached in any way. They are just side effects."

 

--i personally think this statement contradicts the vast majority of what you say around here. i might have turned out to be one of your strongest supporters if not for this discrepancy.

 

 

it frustrates me because i honestly want to be supportive. but i cannot and WILL NOT accept contradictions and dubious claims supported by sketchy analysis and poetics. to dismiss me and people like me as scared or egotistical or otherwise 'unfit' because of our brains is just not genuine. it's a dodge. many of us have been on our path for years. we know how to let go. we also know how to think.

 

"in the old days you would have just been given the practice and then left alone to figure it out for yourself."

 

this just doesn't mean anything. this doesn't somehow turn everything you share, however questionable, into a precious gem. i imagine that since this technique was a guarded secret in the 'old days,' then the people who were left alone to figure it out were not likely novices, but well-seasoned cultivators. there are many martial and cultivation systems from kunlun-shan that predate this technique. Wild Goose Qigong just happens to be one of my favorites. and it's 1800 years old. 72 levels.

 

i digress.

 

 

authenticity trumps esoteric knowledge & senationalism.

 

 

and... um.... you do police from time to time. you certainly did it to me.

Edited November 8, 2007 by Hundun

[Trunk]

Let me also say this. I think that the inherent standard ettiquette of being a dharma concierge ... the level of the basic virtues (patience, etc.) demanded by that role, is far beyond that of normal human behavior. It's a big leap. The repurcussions of activity are so broad that your personal emotions become relatively irrelevant. To actually employ that perspective on a consistent basis is formidable, but it's part of the job. I've seen teachers and their main-pillar-helpers and it's like *gulp*, it's a hard road. There's patience, and then there's patience-in-a-public-dharma-role-connected-to-active-dharma-power. It's a different thing altogether and my point is that it is practically demanding. Finding skillfull means of minimizing wear and tear becomes not a luxury, but a basic survival skill.

 

imo, some aspects of you promo style are over-abundant, and it makes you a target. I think if you'd relax more, say less, ask for more support ... (example: ) you know, some of the contentious parts of this thread were about "scholarly explanation". You could've said, much earlier, "I don't think I have the sort of explanation you're looking for, maybe you guys will come up with something in the next year or so". I would've thought (and I bet most people here would think), "wow, cool, that guy is humble" and we'd all be on your team to help. Over the next year or so this community would say all sorts of witty stuff about your method (which will happen anyway), but it'd be like we're doing it together instead of fractured by hostility.

 

A third the effort, much better result.

 

There are some (seemingly) simple turns like that that'd make things easier for everyone. Or maybe I have it all wrong. It's often hard to tell what is what, and if something is an easy fix or an entrenched permanence. God bless us all.

 

Part of this is that the social context of TTBs is a level playing field. That's what's so fun and functional about this community, what it's about in a lot of ways. A fact with you is that you are presenting a view of a school, so your role is more speaker than listener. In TTBs context it comes off partly that you're full of yourself. If you had your own forum it would be more natural and appropriate: people would come there to get the view of that school. Not that you wouldn't also always be welcome to come by here and annoy us.

[Sahaj Nath]

Anyhow, I don't think conflict is necessarily bad - and can often even be good. As long as we don't lose sight of the message in lieu of the messengers.

 

i fear that i have already done this. because i can't get myself to practice the kunlun method.

 

i see the messengers as the fruit of the message, and i don't see enlightenment, i don't feel enlightenment, and i don't trust all the messages.

 

mantra is the yard stick of SIX YEARS of practice with these techniques. if this is any indication of what i stand to gain, i think i'm doing better on my own.

[Mantra68]

Trunk, I am OK with everything you said. It is all good and I still appreciate and respect your opinion.

 

Patience can be hard to come by, true. But when I consider the fact that we are all deep feeling sensitive beings that basically want the same thing, patience is found.

 

I humbly admit that I only know a little and sometimes I only share a little of what I have learned because I want to encourage people to teach themselves. It is only then that they will appreciate their truths.

 

In my personal life I am quite a silly guy so excuse me for taking this subject so seriously. Loligagging is not something I have time for as many people feel an extreme urgency in breaking through into their larger self (which I understand).

 

In order to make myself available to try and help on a large scale my energy needs to be high. Although, I believe there are only a few instances where my intensity has flared. I have since had a deep internal tempering of my approach to all of this, which is nice.

 

On a side note, do you ever get sick of saying or writing the word "I"? Me just did.

 

"I" am this and "I" think that, and you are different from "I." Kinda all seems absurd. So from now on me will just say "we" or "us", or "you", or "one." The self-important "I" after all is really not very important. But if "I" can help you to see "we" then that is good, me guess.

 

Me (I) really feel like a wave on the ocean. Individual for a only very brief moment, then back to merge with the whole.

 

Maybe me will try to mix more talk of video games and porn into our future posts. Then me will be more like Wii (ha! there you go).

 

 

Again, the written word is a challenge. In person we would all get along just swell.

 

Love,

Chris

[bindo]

Chris,

 

I think you are doing a great job and appreciate you being here.

 

I like you just the way you are.

 

Gordon

[Cameron]

I don't want too go too much into this.

 

Human beings are basically like the disappointment of the universe.

 

Someone like Chris is sort of like a "Red Alert" trying to get an important message out before it's too late.

 

I know..it sounds fanatical..and anyone who knows me knows I am THE LEAST fanatical person they ever met.

 

But...just going off my intuition here..we don't have too much time..Mantra has already done more good here by himself than the rest of this board over the last 3 years put together.

 

If you want to sit around and judge someone like that on a personal level.

 

I really have nothing left to say to you.

 

Cam

[joeblast]

Far too many of us are all too quick to bristle at text we perceive in a less than stellar light. I'm guilty of that myself, although I dont believe that pertains to TTBs. This stuff needs to be taken at face value, oftentimes requires putting oneself in the role of the other in order to really understand what the other is conveying. Some of us are very blunt, some very eloquent, some choose their words as if they are picking berries for a loved one.

Has there really been genuine malice in any of these posts? I think not. We're all trying to help one another. Let's not confuse the word for the meaning.