Kunlun Seminars

[liminal_luke]

This is only worth talking about, imo, because it is part of a pattern at your school. Seems to me that everyone likes the method, that people on the inside have a fun time, but that there are consistent skirmishes around the perimeter.

 

 

I attended one of the LA seminars, and have to say that in the short period of time I've been practicing Kunlun has really changed my life. Couldn't tell you how it works, and I had plenty of hesitation in the beginning about doing something I had so little understanding of intellectually. But I feel happier and healthier than I have in years. So if you need a testimonial about the method Chris, count me in!

 

That being said I almost didn't practice at all because I was SO turned off by Max's presentation of the method. I was one of the people who wrote to Hundun privately about how turned off I was about what appeared to be an excess of ego. Sorry, Hundun, for not having the courage to say so more publically.

 

Because I think the method is so wonderful, it saddens me to think that some people will not ever get to the point of experiencing it themselves because they are so turned off by the hard-sell, the combativeness, the (illusion of?) ego, sensationalism, etc.

 

In my opinion, all of Trunk's suggestions for improving how Kunlun is presented to the taobums community--and perhaps the larger world--are spot on.

 

In the interests of spreading all the good things the Kunlun method can bring to our troubled world, I'm still hoping that Kunlun's promoters will be open to the kernel of truth in the suggestions/criticisms of sincere cultivators of people like Trunk and Hundun.

 

I feel you are sincere Chris in your efforts to spread this wonderful practice more widely in the world. What a shame it would be if anything in your presentation of Kunlun led even a single person who might otherwise benifit from Kunlun from giving it an honest try.

[xenolith]

I also think Trunk's comments were accurate and appropriate.

 

Thanks Chris for your thoughtful comments and kindness in replying to my queries. I hope that the constructive portions of my comments are recognized.

 

It's interesting how similar parts of your last post sound to posts that I've made. I sincerely hope that you're not subjected to the sort of derision that I was. I hope your fan base will serve as a shield!

 

As I've come to learn from the comments of others, the spiritual evolutionary path that I walk is much harder to traverse and benefit from than I was aware. Although it's been wonderful for me and I think represents the greatest mechanism for awareness of enlightenment (using the ego subjugation definition of such) it's utility in the general case is severely limited if almost no one can experience it. It makes me very happy to learn of non-solicited endorsements of Kunlun. These don't happen unless something good was experienced. It really is wonderful that so many people are negotiating it so quickly and benefiting so much from it. I applaud you and Max for your efforts. And offer my simple encouragement to you all to continue doing so.

 

You'll not receive any further difficult questions from me. Please continue to share what you think is useful with the Forum. I respectfully offer to you that personal experience with the method will be most valued, by some at least.

 

Peace.

 

xeno

[Mantra68]

Right on Xeno.

 

All good, bra.

 

And yes, Trunk is quite a brilliant fellow.

Edited November 13, 2007 by Mantra68

[Wun Yuen Gong]

Mantra,

 

I think its very important that students are taught the correct methods and principles of the art and anything that could arise but allowing the student to feel and experience it themselves.

 

WYG

[Mantra68]

Mantra,

 

I think its very important that students are taught the correct methods and principles of the art and anything that could arise but allowing the student to feel and experience it themselves.

 

WYG

Not everything. You must allow a certain amount of room for unique experience. That is, the individual has a fresh experience, even if it is a challenge.

 

If you explain everything you would create an "expert" mindset. Then the possibilities become limited.

 

No one is going to get hurt by being given the freedom to explore their own infinite inner world.

Edited November 13, 2007 by Mantra68

[Wun Yuen Gong]

Agree basic methods and principles help them to grow though, some people can attain more some less its how deep they can go with themselves that can bring them to a higher level.

[Yoda]

I attended one of the LA seminars, and have to say that in the short period of time I've been practicing Kunlun has really changed my life. Couldn't tell you how it works, and I had plenty of hesitation in the beginning about doing something I had so little understanding of intellectually. But I feel happier and healthier than I have in years. So if you need a testimonial about the method Chris, count me in!

 

That being said I almost didn't practice at all because I was SO turned off by Max's presentation of the method. I was one of the people who wrote to Hundun privately about how turned off I was about what appeared to be an excess of ego. Sorry, Hundun, for not having the courage to say so more publically.

 

Because I think the method is so wonderful, it saddens me to think that some people will not ever get to the point of experiencing it themselves because they are so turned off by the hard-sell, the combativeness, the (illusion of?) ego, sensationalism, etc.

 

In my opinion, all of Trunk's suggestions for improving how Kunlun is presented to the taobums community--and perhaps the larger world--are spot on.

 

In the interests of spreading all the good things the Kunlun method can bring to our troubled world, I'm still hoping that Kunlun's promoters will be open to the kernel of truth in the suggestions/criticisms of sincere cultivators of people like Trunk and Hundun.

 

I feel you are sincere Chris in your efforts to spread this wonderful practice more widely in the world. What a shame it would be if anything in your presentation of Kunlun led even a single person who might otherwise benifit from Kunlun from giving it an honest try.

 

 

 

Every teacher that I'm aware of has serious turn offs. By the time you water yourself down to where everyone can agree on it and like it, you don't have anything worthwhile left and that's a turn off too.

 

The nice thing about the Kunlun system is that it is like water itself and can be presented in any number of ways and you, personally, can share it in any manner you'd like.

 

In this sense, Kunlun has a tremendous potential for popular appeal.

 

Additionally, Max's students will outshine him and he wants that. That's a *very* unusual thing for a teacher to say and to aspire for. Usually, teachers emit a vibe that says, "Damn I'm good... I'm way brighter than you can hope to be... but you can at least enjoy a contact high from me and these practices might help you a little bit if you can deal with it, which you can't." They don't have faith that their system will work for the average person when it comes right down to it.

 

I haven't been to a workshop yet (will in a few days) but I can tell already that I like Max's aggressive, both barrels style.

[Smile]

As I've come to learn from the comments of others, the spiritual evolutionary path that I walk is much harder to traverse and benefit from than I was aware. Although it's been wonderful for me and I think represents the greatest mechanism for awareness of enlightenment (using the ego subjugation definition of such) it's utility in the general case is severely limited if almost no one can experience it.

 

In case anyone missed, this original post explains more.

[Mantra68]

Every teacher that I'm aware of has serious turn offs. By the time you water yourself down to where everyone can agree on it and like it, you don't have anything worthwhile left and that's a turn off too.

 

The nice thing about the Kunlun system is that it is like water itself and can be presented in any number of ways and you, personally, can share it in any manner you'd like.

 

In this sense, Kunlun has a tremendous potential for popular appeal.

 

Additionally, Max's students will outshine him and he wants that. That's a *very* unusual thing for a teacher to say and to aspire for. Usually, teachers emit a vibe that says, "Damn I'm good... I'm way brighter than you can hope to be... but you can at least enjoy a contact high from me and these practices might help you a little bit if you can deal with it, which you can't." They don't have faith that their system will work for the average person when it comes right down to it.

 

I haven't been to a workshop yet (will in a few days) but I can tell already that I like Max's aggressive, both barrels style.

Yes Max is very direct. He doesn't believe in wasting time when you don't have to.

 

I honestly don't understand the ego stuff though. He is the most humble person I have ever met in my life. He takes no credit for the things he does when the things he does are insanely powerful.

 

He refuses to let people bow to him even when they realize who he really is.

 

Any dramatic presentation is my fault not his. My enthusiasm got the best of me. Don't worry guys, from now on we will be more careful as to what is shown.

[gendao]

Yes Max is very direct. He doesn't believe in wasting time when you don't have to.

 

I honestly don't understand the ego stuff though. He is the most humble person I have ever met in my life. He takes no credit for the things he does when the things he does are insanely powerful.

 

He refuses to let people bow to him even when they realize who he really is.

 

Any dramatic presentation is my fault not his. My enthusiasm got the best of me. Don't worry guys, from now on we will be more careful as to what is shown.

The thing about feedback is that generally only people with complaints will bother writing in. People who are happy with the product often won't, and so can often form a silent majority. Which gives a very skewed perspective.

 

Just so you don't respond entirely to negative feedback, I will add my .02 here:

 

- Max is a very student-friendly teacher. I don't know him intimately, but there are certainly no ego problems on the surface.

- I, for one, like all the "show & tell" demos. The crazier, the better.

 

So, I don't think either of these needs any "watering down."

 

As far as all the marketing hype...well, I don't really have a problem with that, either. It kinda whets the appetite and it's not like he doesn't really have the goods. Let's face it, a lot of a "product" lies in the presentation. So, I guess you could make this really dry and clinical, but why not make it fun and enchanting as well? Which matches his playful attitude of not taking things too seriously.

 

Also, I think it will be a looongggg time before any students outshine him. Don't mistake his humbleness/false modesty for weakness. Quite the opposite, in fact.

Edited November 13, 2007 by vortex

[bindo]

The thing about feedback is that generally only people with complaints will bother writing in. People who are happy with the product often won't, and so can often form a silent majority. Which gives a very skewed perspective.

 

Just so you don't respond entirely to negative feedback, I will add my .02 here:

 

- Max is a very student-friendly teacher. I don't know him intimately, but there are certainly no ego problems on the surface.

- I, for one, like all the "show & tell" demos. The crazier, the better.

 

So, I don't think either of these needs any "watering down."

 

As far as all the marketing hype...well, I don't really have a problem with that, either. It kinda whets the appetite and it's not like he doesn't really have the goods. Let's face it, a lot of a "product" lies in the presentation. So, I guess you could make this really clinical and technical, but why not make it fun and enchanting as well? Which matches his playful attitude of not taking things too seriously.

 

Also, I think it will be a looongggg time before any students outshine him. Don't mistake his humbleness/false modesty for weakness. Quite the opposite, in fact.

I agree with vortex completely. I've started to reply to some of these posts a few times over the past couple of days but couldn't find the right words w/out it turning in to a total rant.

 

Ego?- who? when?

 

Skirmishes? Where? on this board? you mean like every message board ever created?

 

Sensationalism? I can understand why some people would see the movie trailers as "sensational", but I don't agree. Same for the demonstrations.

 

Hard sell? My sister attended the free lecture in Encinitas, and my brother went to the recent free lecture in Alhambra. I just spoke to both of them on sunday and we all agree that we like the fact that there was no hard sell to go to the seminar. Quite the opposite. If they were any more casual about things, you wouldn't even know there was a seminar!

 

"If you're interested, we'll be here the next two days". This is how Max ended the free lecture in SF. Hard sell? I think not!

 

Not to mention, they are just getting started.

 

Chris, you don't need to change anything.

[Yoda]

Chris, you don't need to change anything.

 

Second that... Inquiring minds want to know!

[sheng zhen]

Second that... Inquiring minds want to know!

Third that...(trying to not be the silent majority)

 

Its wonderful that all these questions are answered so openly and freely!

[Mal]

Its wonderful that all these questions are answered so openly and freely!

 

Yes, the chance to discus a book with it's author is very very helpful. Had long email conversations with Donald M Kraig when I was working through his book "Modern Magick" in the 90's. That Chris would take the time to talk to and help people work through the book is INVALUABLE.

 

Actually I've been re-reading the book a fair bit (bible style ) and it is very well done. Personally I only got put off by the empty force martial arts stuff. But that's an issue I always have with that sort of thing.

[minkus]

That Chris would take the time to talk to and help people work through the book is INVALUABLE.

 

Yeh thats my opinion also. Respect for Chris he even want to do this.

 

A sincere thanx.

Edited November 14, 2007 by minkus

[yiqili]

Ok, since the silent majority is speaking up. . .

 

i too have had interesting and enjoyable experiences with Kunlun.

 

Chris, you are super helpful.

 

I will see you guys in February at the next LA seminar.

 

Actually, I'm suprised you even take the time to respond to some of the people on this forum who challenge you. It's quite unecessary, as you know.

 

Those who get it, get it.

 

You're either on the bus, or off the bus.

 

Cheers.

[Mantra68]

Ok, since the silent majority is speaking up. . .

 

i too have had interesting and enjoyable experiences with Kunlun.

 

Chris, you are super helpful.

 

I will see you guys in February at the next LA seminar.

 

Actually, I'm suprised you even take the time to respond to some of the people on this forum who challenge you. It's quite unecessary, as you know.

 

Those who get it, get it.

 

You're either on the bus, or off the bus.

 

Cheers.

Thanks for your words guys. My approach reflects the position of service that my teacher embodies. If I can take a few moments to chime in here then I am happy to do so.

 

In keeping with the actual topic of this thread the next LA seminar will be on January 12-13.

 

See you there!

[yiqili]

Thanks for your words guys. My approach reflects the position of service that my teacher embodies. If I can take a few moments to chime in here then I am happy to do so.

 

In keeping with the actual topic of this thread the next LA seminar will be on January 12-13.

 

See you there!

 

 

oh, ok. thanks! last i checked the actual website it was feb.

 

peace.

[joeblast]

come to the east sieeeeeede!

[Sunya]

come to the east sieeeeeede!

 

i concur.

 

the schedule ends early june in LA.

 

maybe after that you can swing by new york or anywhere close by?

i read that Max doesn't like the big city.. well new york is a big state, theres also new jersey, connecticut, i suggest not choosing a place further than 1 hour drive from NYC because i think you will find many people from there who will be interested in attending. if you'd like, i can help set it up