Success in life. What is this? Has it anything to do with being happy?

[thelerner]

Credit Dustybeijing with this in the 'Intelligence' thread.

 

I don't have time to write about it, off to pu kids. But thought it was a pretty good topic. One we haven't chewed on in a while.

Edited November 5, 2014 by thelerner

[Formless Tao]

Credit Dustybeijing with this in the 'Intelligence' thread.

 

I don't have time to write about it, off to pu kids. But thought it was a pretty good topic. One we chewed on in a while.

 

Hi thelearner.

 

I believe your question could be written like this; How does one measure success in life?

 

For me personally I measure success in terms of happiness, love, peace and being comfortable.

 

Peace

 

FT

[dust]

Yeah. I just hate the term "good job".

 

"He's so successful now, got a really good job, making loads of money!"

"What does he do?"

"Investment banking."

"Isn't that stressful?"

"Yeah. He's got no time for friends or family or anything, and he's addicted to coke. But he's got a Ferrari!"

 

Pfft. No offence to any investment bankers, but...fuck that for a game of soldiers.

[BaguaKicksAss]

Happiness for self and others. All that other stuff, just things to keep us amused and busy.

 

When people ask what I do, I list my hobbies. Drives them up the wall LOL.

[Audiohealing]

I think just being alive is the greatest success imaginable. Everything else is just a concept, an idea.

[Nungali]

Success in life has everything to do with being happy, if being happy is what you want to achieve in your life.

 

The problem seems to be people misperceiving what will bring their happiness.

[C T]

I think the truly successful person is the one who knows contentment. If a person learns the true meaning

of contentment, even a simple bowl of rice on its own can bring a lot of joy. Then, if one day someone gives you a little soya sauce to go with the rice, its like a real treat. This is like the epicentre of a fulfilling life... desiring nothing, grasping at nothing. Whatever we receive without desire becomes a cause for grateful sharing. Theravadin monks put this into practice every day on their alms round.

 

As the saying goes, "When you desire nothing, you have everything."

No harm can ever come to a person who has severed the chains of clinging and aversion.

 

Letting go of desires wells up a sense of lightness and bubbliness in the heart.

Some call this 'being spontaneously happy'.

Edited November 5, 2014 by C T

[dust]

I don't think that many here on TTB will disagree with the above comments about happiness, contentment, and being happy with being alive. If we all cared deeply about "money and bitches" we wouldn't be on here discussing Laozi and the Upanishads. But I don't think we're representative of society at large.

 

In response to the OP, I'm certain that many people consider success to be determined by a number of factors, and that "contentment" isn't necessarily one. On that other thread, Mike said:

 

Success to me is something external. Money, career, women, those are the major factors. Happiness is internal. You can feel happy without finding success. You can certainly be successful but miserable and empty on the inside.

 

I think this is a majority definition of success. And I think that, unlike Mike, many people equate success with happiness.

 

When I was younger, my best friend's goal in life was to own a Mercedes by the time he was 40. By that, he said, he'd know that he'd been successful, and would therefore be happy. This way of thinking is not uncommon. (He's since realized that he was wrong and has quit his high-paying job to travel the world.)

[RiverSnake]

Been hitting some pretty intense periods of bliss in my practice lately. Although it feels great to be happy and bursting into tears of joy for no reason....what I've interestingly found is that I am more fond of regular states of peace and equanimity rather than Bliss.

 

May sound counter intuitive for some. Thought it an interesting insight in terms of its overarching relation to life and how most people are obsessed with achieving "positive states".

Edited November 5, 2014 by OldChi

[Stosh]

Success is just a fungible concept , so it too is an illusion, and therefore a person could make themselves miserable chasing it, or they could just choose the definition to suit.

If a thing is just a matter of opinion then its not a fixed fact. What 'real-ness' would it have?

The question could be put , Is a persons happiness an illusion? IS it fungible? IS it fact?

Would my definitions of success really make a difference to anyone? seriously.

Edited November 5, 2014 by Stosh

[The Tao Of Alex]

Happiness has everything to do with success. I would venture that happiness is THE template that you gauge everything against in this life. Try a little experiment. Ask friends and family what they want/desire most out of life, and though you may get various answers, all these answers boil down to their happiness...

Alex

[Stosh]

Happiness has everything to do with success. I would venture that happiness is THE template that you gauge everything against in this life. Try a little experiment. Ask friends and family what they want/desire most out of life, and though you may get various answers, all these answers boil down to their happiness...

Alex

Yeah that may be exactly how they "measure" , but if CT can be happy with Soya on his rice, or he may be happy with just the rice, maybe he could be happy without rice at all ( apart from being sustenance) , and if its so , then he has no measure of his happiness, he is never short of it , nor could he have more.

[C T]

Yeah that may be exactly how they "measure" , but if CT can be happy with Soya on his rice, or he may be happy with just the rice, maybe he could be happy without rice at all ( apart from being sustenance) , and if its so , then he has no measure of his happiness, he is never short of it , nor could he have more.

Maybe if its measurable it is no longer real happiness, just signs and symptoms.

[BaguaKicksAss]

Measuring it (success or happiness) seems silly, because then you get all sorts of "not have enough", "am I better or worse off than others" sorts of thoughts.

 

Interesting to note, the person I know who owns 3 apartments and an extremely fancy car, is the most miserable person I know or have met in a long time. He likes to remind us regularly, how "successful" he is...

[BaguaKicksAss]

I have personally found this to be true, and seen it in others.

 

Also interesting to note how much happier folks in third world countries seem to be than in first world ones.  They tend to smile far more and show genuine happiness.

[Nikolai1]

If you are able to be contented with a bowl of rice and soy sauce it is because you already have a solid stable happiness on the inside. Then you think - 'its only rice and still I'm happy'

 

If you don't have happiness on the inside then you will and must find it on the outside. A Mercedes IS happiness. And its widespread recognition as a symbol of happiness IS the solid stability that the rice eater has on the inside.

 

If you talk about inner happiness to most people they simply will not understand what you mean. The only happiness they recognise is that which makes people say to them "Gee, you have a Mercedes, you must be happy!' And they agree and have no suspicion that there is anything other.

 

Rice eaters are a threat - they muddy the picture, make things confusing.

 

The only justification for the rice eater's violence is that they point the way to a superior happiness. A happiness that others aren't trying to steal from you, or scratch with their keys as they walk by.

 

But we mustn't expect people to overnight find inner happiness. Do not expect them to enjoy rice. No-one enjoys rice. The rice merely shows us that we are happy despite the rice.

[C T]

If you are able to be contented with a bowl of rice and soy sauce it is because you already have a solid stable happiness on the inside. Then you think - 'its only rice and still I'm happy'

 

If you don't have happiness on the inside then you will and must find it on the outside. A Mercedes IS happiness. And its widespread recognition as a symbol of happiness IS the solid stability that the rice eater has on the inside.

 

If you talk about inner happiness to most people they simply will not understand what you mean. The only happiness they recognise is that which makes people say to them "Gee, you have a Mercedes, you must be happy!' And they agree and have no suspicion that there is anything other.

 

Rice eaters are a threat - they muddy the picture, make things confusing.

 

The only justification for the rice eater's violence is that they point the way to a superior happiness. A happiness that others aren't trying to steal from you, or scratch with their keys as they walk by.

 

But we mustn't expect people to overnight find inner happiness. Do not expect them to enjoy rice. No-one enjoys rice. The rice merely shows us that we are happy despite the rice.

To tell you the truth, i enjoy my rice much more than the fleeting delight i get from my bmw. People think having a flashy car is such a big deal, but really, its not. The amusement one might derive from it comes and goes, whereas taking delight in rice is a more stable appreciation. If i lose my car, i wont die... if i lose my ability to eat rice, hmm... that will be more serious i think.

 

We could learn to enjoy what is there with a heightened awareness of transiency and ephemeralness ... then everything becomes a gift. We learn ever-deepening appreciation and gratitude not because we have things, but because we know the things we have wont last forever.

Edited November 5, 2014 by C T

[Brian]

 

I have personally found this to be true, and seen it in others.

 

Also interesting to note how much happier folks in third world countries seem to be than in first world ones. They tend to smile far more and show genuine happiness.

I agree with the first part but i think the second is too much of a generalization.

[liminal_luke]

I agree with the first part but i think the second is too much of a generalization.

 

Certainly it's possible to pull off being happy without a lot of material comforts, but most people don´t. Some years back I traveled to the high country around Oaxaca and met this woman with as beautiful smile who just seemed so contented. It was an inspiring experience just meeting her, and I will always remember it. She lived in a small room with a dirt floor and had basically nothing by first world standards. Of course she lived on the side of this amazing mountain so that has to count for something.

 

Since then I´ve met many other poor people here in Mexico, and I can tell you that her spiritual glow is the exception and not the rule.

 

Liminal

[BaguaKicksAss]

I agree with the first part but i think the second is too much of a generalization.

 

Have you not found this when traveling internationally? The difference is so obvious it is amazing. I of course mean the % of people compared with the % of people, not every single person.

[CloudHands]

http://www.businessinsider.com/a-lesson-about-happiness-from-a-holocaust-survivor-2014-10

 

Topic related. I haven't red it yet, you tell me how interesting it is

Edited November 5, 2014 by CloudHands

[i am]

But you can only be content with that bowl of rice when other needs have been met. But I'll agree, needs met or not, most people have a hard time being happy.

 

But you need to have some level of "success", before you can be comfortable and secure enough to be able to feel content with that bowl of rice.

 

Believe me I'm thinking pretty hard about this right now. I had a decent job up until Feb., which could have been a career job. Never would have made me rich, and unless I got married and had dual income, buying a house would have been a challenge, but possible. But I rented a house, lived within blocks of hiking trails, walking distance of downtown and my friend's houses, and I lived in the west, so vacation meant camping, backpacking, floating, hiking, renting a Forest Service cabin. Vacation pretty easily equaled cheap, if you wanted it to (and I do). It was really a great lifestyle. I was happy. Except...

 

It was an office job; boring, working with people nothing like me, who could be very petty and place way to much importance on silly little things. A lot of negativity, surrounding me every day. I sat around all day watching the clock. All I've got till I die is time, and I was wishing away 8 hours of my life a day, five days a week. So I quit.

 

Now...I want very badly not to fall back into the comfort of a secure, boring, soul-sucking office job (not all office jobs are like this!). But I wonder if it was my inability to be content which caused my unhappiness, or if that's a cop-out, hiding behind the safe, secure state employee job because it's scary out there in the real world.

 

In the end, whether it's an issue inside me or it really was a good idea for my sanity to leave, I left. I felt like I was wasting my life.

 

So I hit the road and drove around. When my money ran out, I worked a couple temporary jobs, then found family to spend to the winter with. I'm trying really hard to meet people who are more self-starters, not just people who work for companies. I need to be exposed to people piecing a living together in less traditional ways. All I've known is getting an 8-5 job working for someone else. I really don't want another 8-5. I can get by on very little money, so finding a path for myself which is contract-based or part time, and preferably doesn't tie me down to an office or specific location would be perfect. But how much do I need? I want to retire someday. I want health insurance. But all I really want is a couple-hundred sq ft house in the mountains (near town), where I get to spend most of my time. I could pretty easily get by on $2-3,000 a month (knowing insurance and retirement are coming out of this...), if I didn't have a mortgage or car payment.

 

But I have to get to where I don't have a mortgage. I can build my own small house without going into debt. But the land? Probably not.

 

So I'm using myself as an example and also because it gives me a rant outlet since I'm balls deep in this crap right now. Now that I'm free, how do I stay that way? "What job will not drag me down? What will I be happy with? What do I want out of my job? Out of my personal time?" I get to sit around being very careful not to commit to something that's just going to drag me down again. For a little while. I need to get back at it very soon. Just need to figure out what "it" is. This is not only a "are you happy with yourself?" question. I'm getting to know myself better all the time, and not just any job that pays the bills will allow happiness. In fact I feel like the farther I progress spiritually, the less I can handle a lot of certain jobs. Maybe that will change at some point...

 

1st world problems!

 

So with that aside, I agree.

 

With the right attitude, you can be happy with very little. Assuming you have all of your "base" figured out. How much do you need. Have you been lucky enough to grow up in an atmosphere that allowed you to slide into a type of work that fits those needs. Or hard working and clever enough to figure it all out yourself.

 

 

So...success is: doing some soul searching to find what you truly want out of life. Then getting it.

 

How the rest of society defines it shouldn't matter much, and there are still some places left where you can live true to yourself and not be battered daily by materialistic people judging you.

[GrandmasterP]

Contentment is a result.

Maybe that's 'success in life 'after a fashion.

Edited November 5, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[BaguaKicksAss]

But you can only be content with that bowl of rice when other needs have been met. But I'll agree, needs met or not, most people have a hard time being happy.

 

But you need to have some level of "success", before you can be comfortable and secure enough to be able to feel content with that bowl of rice.

 

Believe me I'm thinking pretty hard about this right now. I had a decent job up until Feb., which could have been a career job. Never would have made me rich, and unless I got married and had dual income, buying a house would have been a challenge, but possible. But I rented a house, lived within blocks of hiking trails, walking distance of downtown and my friend's houses, and I lived in the west, so vacation meant camping, backpacking, floating, hiking, renting a Forest Service cabin. Vacation pretty easily equaled cheap, if you wanted it to (and I do). It was really a great lifestyle. I was happy. Except...

 

It was an office job; boring, working with people nothing like me, who could be very petty and place way to much importance on silly little things. A lot of negativity, surrounding me every day. I sat around all day watching the clock. All I've got till I die is time, and I was wishing away 8 hours of my life a day, five days a week. So I quit.

 

Now...I want very badly not to fall back into the comfort of a secure, boring, soul-sucking office job (not all office jobs are like this!). But I wonder if it was my inability to be content which caused my unhappiness, or if that's a cop-out, hiding behind the safe, secure state employee job because it's scary out there in the real world.

 

In the end, whether it's an issue inside me or it really was a good idea for my sanity to leave, I left. I felt like I was wasting my life.

 

So I hit the road and drove around. When my money ran out, I worked a couple temporary jobs, then found family to spend to the winter with. I'm trying really hard to meet people who are more self-starters, not just people who work for companies. I need to be exposed to people piecing a living together in less traditional ways. All I've known is getting an 8-5 job working for someone else. I really don't want another 8-5. I can get by on very little money, so finding a path for myself which is contract-based or part time, and preferably doesn't tie me down to an office or specific location would be perfect. But how much do I need? I want to retire someday. I want health insurance. But all I really want is a couple-hundred sq ft house in the mountains (near town), where I get to spend most of my time. I could pretty easily get by on $2-3,000 a month (knowing insurance and retirement are coming out of this...), if I didn't have a mortgage or car payment.

 

But I have to get to where I don't have a mortgage. I can build my own small house without going into debt. But the land? Probably not.

 

So I'm using myself as an example and also because it gives me a rant outlet since I'm balls deep in this crap right now. Now that I'm free, how do I stay that way? "What job will not drag me down? What will I be happy with? What do I want out of my job? Out of my personal time?" I get to sit around being very careful not to commit to something that's just going to drag me down again. For a little while. I need to get back at it very soon. Just need to figure out what "it" is. This is not only a "are you happy with yourself?" question. I'm getting to know myself better all the time, and not just any job that pays the bills will allow happiness. In fact I feel like the farther I progress spiritually, the less I can handle a lot of certain jobs. Maybe that will change at some point...

 

1st world problems!

 

So with that aside, I agree.

 

With the right attitude, you can be happy with very little. Assuming you have all of your "base" figured out. How much do you need. Have you been lucky enough to grow up in an atmosphere that allowed you to slide into a type of work that fits those needs. Or hard working and clever enough to figure it all out yourself.

 

 

So...success is: doing some soul searching to find what you truly want out of life. Then getting it.

 

How the rest of society defines it shouldn't matter much, and there are still some places left where you can live true to yourself and not be battered daily by materialistic people judging you.

 

$2000-$3000 per month? Holy hell! Perhaps figure out a way of living on half of that, so you have more options .

 

I have found that the best way to get the exact life you want is to start it while you are still living the life you don't want, or even hate, but that pays the bills. Just up and quitting whatever it is and hoping and starting from scratch is far far more difficult from all I have seen. So perhaps work one of those soul sucking jobs for 4-5 years while saving up (eat lots of rice, with soy sauce , bike to work if you have to..). while starting your own business or night school courses on the side. That's on the physical level. Then on the other levels, making sure that your time away from work brings much fulfillment. Most folks I know who are pretty happy don't find enjoyment in their 9-5 job, but in all the other things they do after work, and the people they are around. They also tend to have side income from their hobbies as a retire early plan.

[Formless Tao]

I have personally found this to be true, and seen it in others.

 

Also interesting to note how much happier folks in third world countries seem to be than in first world ones. They tend to smile far more and show genuine happiness.

 

BKA, I believe you hit the nail on the head with your last point above.

 

I can relate to what you are saying. Generally speaking I have found people In third world countries to be happier than in first world countries as well. I have lived and/or done some kind of work with locals in Indonesia, East Timor and Cambodia to experience this.

 

The reason for this in my opinion is because they have less than us. In the first world countries again generally speaking, the more we have the more we want.

 

Peace FT