Success in life. What is this? Has it anything to do with being happy?

[i am]

That's kind of where I'm coming from. It's part of being in modern society, if you want to take part in modern society. Part of it is learning what you're willing to tolerate, then just getting on with it, I suppose. An 8-5 office job can be good. But there are definitely certain jobs and work environments in offices which are not healthy.

 

Mostly I don't want someone with a job and health insurance and retirement telling me I need to give up all that to be spiritually true to myself.

[BaguaKicksAss]

If you live in the USA, your country has free health insurance for folks without income, or very low income.

 

Btw, a LOT of artists of various sorts here are actually making a living from their creative work. I find that really awesome. Even more awesome is that we get more and more resources for it daily, such as community places with fancy tools to make things :>.

 

I think figuring out what you really want, as in prioritize is best. No matter what it is, whatever is MORE important to you than anything else. Sure we want it all, but if you make a list of want most, want nearly as much, and on down to don't want at all, that can help the focus. Sure it sometimes takes years to get what we really want, but if you had started working on it 5 years ago you would be there now (I keep reminding myself of this for new projects which seem really daunting).

[BaguaKicksAss]

But I'm allergic to soy sauce!

 

ROFL ROFL ROFL

 

Sorry couldn't help it.

[C T]

But I'm allergic to soy sauce!

 

ROFL ROFL ROFL

 

Sorry couldn't help it.

Ok, you may have an additional 3 nuts to compensate for your allergy...

[Guest munky]

Interesting thoughts... Immortal or not, i agree being self sufficient is important. Sure, an englightened person's internal contentment is there no matter what happens externally. Still, it doesn't mean external things wouldnt matter to them. That it would be fine for them to be living in a cardboard box and receiving free food, and not trying to do anything about it.
Perhaps another way of looking at the internal spiritual attainment is it allows one to face difficult situations. Trusting that through patience and naturalness, the challenges will be overcome.

Renouncing everything, escaping society to live in the mountains and wander is a bit glamorised. Modern society and way of life in the developed world is vastly different from ancient times. The essence of spirituality remains and can be practised and applied in any setting. So there really is no need to emulate how spiritual cultivators lived in the past. There are monks and ascetics portrayed as being very spiritual and enlightened, but are they? As Ish suggested, i think living in society with the right attitude is better for spiritual progress.

I realised spiritual attainment doesn't require hours and hours of formal practice a day. Honestly, I wouldn't have better ways to spend my time without having a job. A 2 day weekend is more than enough for me to relax and enjoy being lazy. For me a job where I can directly help people, where im not forced to be overly cunning and dishonest is great.

Edited November 7, 2014 by munky

[i am]

If you live in the USA, your country has free health insurance for folks without income, or very low income.

 

You know more than me then! When I applied for Obamacare, I entered my income as $6,000 for the year, since that was my best guess as to how much I'd make before quitting my job this year. I qualified for 0 discounts. Depending on which you state you happen to live in, you get way more help if you make somewhere up towards $20,000 a year, than if you make nothing. No help for those with no income or extremely low income.

[i am]

I think figuring out what you really want, as in prioritize is best. No matter what it is, whatever is MORE important to you than anything else. Sure we want it all, but if you make a list of want most, want nearly as much, and on down to don't want at all, that can help the focus. Sure it sometimes takes years to get what we really want, but if you had started working on it 5 years ago you would be there now (I keep reminding myself of this for new projects which seem really daunting).

 

Yeah and I don't mind working towards something, even something 15 years away. That's a goal and that's doing something and has meaning. What's agonizing is just treading water, not knowing where to start, because you don't know what the goal is Other than the lifestyle.

[Nikolai1]

Hi IAm

 

 

Are you saying that dropping out of society is the only way to commit yourself to the spiritual life?

No! I've never said that. I'm saying that the one thing that is needed is the transformation of our inner attitude. This transformation is the spiritual life. It is immaterial whether you are living alone on a mountain, or snorting coke after a hard day at the bank, if you are in that moment able to keep your awareness on the infinity within you then you are sacred yourself and all your actions are sanctified.

 

What I see in your post is the opposite tendency. First, you took a job, doubtless because of the security it offered you, then you quit it because you were unable to tolerate the spiritual meaninglessness of it and your colleagues, and now you are in an anxious situation, feeling financially insecure but worrying about your soul and trying to concoct 'best of both world' solutions.

 

While it sounds very rational, it won't work. In fact the very attempt is blocking you from finding the correct attitude on the inside. This attitude can only be found on a moment by moment basis, as you live in the midst of things. I think Ish showed a very good technique here:

 

I guess one way to look at it is everything you find annoying/difficult about the 9-5 is a cultivation working on your character... why does xyz irritate me? can i rise above it?

 

It is very hard to recognise that it is an inner attitude that is determining everything. At first we only recognise spirituality when we see it in other people, and then imagine that it is their outer behaviours that are the important thing.

 

And what makes it doubly confusing is that the spiritually cultivated so often behave in similar ways - they do quite humble jobs, and live their lives in simple looking ways. But this is not some technique to follow. If we merely try to imitate them we will get nowhere!

 

The simplicity of their lifestyle is the inevitable outer expression of an inner attitude where each moment is fine by them, and nothing in particular need be sought out. With time, this leads to a natural transformation in our lives when we, without even noticing it, cease investing and renewing in all the things that are unnecessary. Though some do this consciously and wilfully in the form of renunciation, for many of us it occurs unconsciously and can therefore be slightly alarming. It's quite shocking when even the nearest and dearest loves and interests reveal themselves as inauthentic means to get us happiness, and we feel unable to keep them going. Now you still like the idea of meeting friends in a restaurant. Don't be surprised if you start to feel indifferent about all that stuff.

 

Look, I know you are out of work and need to take assertive action quickly. My advice would be to take the job which seems most bearable and stick with it. Make the work your practice. Face up to it, and attempt to rise above each irksome moment as it arises. If you are very steadfast about this, you'll find that the job will quickly become very bearable. You will also find that you will be able to rise above your pleasures too. And learning to step off the hedonic treadmill will give you the security that comes when you no longer need to spend half your earnings on fun.

 

If you want to know more about me: I'm 38, not working this year as I've decided to stay home and look after our 3 kids, 9 yrs, 5 yrs and 11 month old. My days are surprisingly busy, and not particularly stimulating. There are near constant demands for my attention. I have no job to go back to, and no profession, other than work experience in care work to which I'll doubtless return. I have no pension, no securities, no investments. My own philosophy I put into practice on a moment by moment basis and it works. There comes a point when you have to very squarely face up to life itself, moment by moment by moment. If I become destitute and die I won't mind very much, although I love life and consider myself happier than anyone I know

[Stosh]

Interesting Stosh. I would posit though, that CT's new measure of happiness is now 'no rice'. I guess all things change, including what we define as happiness for ourselves?

Alex

It could be the case , yes, that he is happier limiting himself to no rice. A person may take pride in their self control, or things like that. And yes that would pretty much just be replacing rice with constraint. I guess doing that, one would get to the end of things they could deprive themselves of and consider themselves successful!. ... But I think there's a lower limit of stimulation ,which going beyond , one is depressing himself. Somewhere here I think one starts to need to ask what the point of their life is.

Yes?

[i am]

Ok, I get where you're coming from a bit more. My post on how I defined "success" in life left out spirituality because it's such a personal thing, and if someone wants to be atheist, that's cool too.

 

For me with what I want...well, check the living simply thread. Being my own happiness and maintaining enlightenment within, no matter what I'm doing, is not in direct conflict with wanting a change in life, and pursuing it. I don't need to settle for a 9-5. I find that I have a need for a lot of alone time, and time on my own terms. Weeknights and a 2 day weekend don't quite do it, for me. I practiced rising above the pettiness and negativity of the office for 8 years, and I did pretty well. But eventually you start to think that, partially for your spiritual progression, that being surrounded by that negativity is not beneficial. You can't hide from the real world. But you can make careful choices about what sort of energy you're exposed to on a day-in, day-out basis. Hugely important.

 

I get what you're saying, more than I was before. A lot of the frustration coming out over the last couple days is the result of a cycle that I've been going through, of knowing everything will be ok, having all sort of cool ideas of where my life is going, then suddenly going the other way and having everything turn negative and stressful in my head. And part of the problem is that there are all sorts of great things to do. If you give a shit and want to do them I'm working on breaking that cycle now, and yes, it'll come from within when it happens. This is probably very good for me. It's easy to be content when you have a paycheck coming in, or you're living off a decent savings. It's a much better test of whether you can be content when you don't have a paycheck or savings and have to figure out what direction you're going to go.

 

My plan: free place for the winter, which I have. Use this time to read, brainstorm, write, play music, cultivate. All the stuff I never feel like I have enough time for. Then, get into the city as much as possible, get involved in local groups and meet a ton of people, and start getting exposed to what people are doing for work, from those working their ass off, to those just piecing a living together with some random stuff here and there but working as little as possible. Then take that and hopefully get started on my own deal in the spring. And yeah, I'll need to get a job for the winter.

 

But as I'm doing all this, I will be working on myself, and being sure I'm not chasing something external. I think I'm completely justified in searching for a new way to make a living. The trick is not getting caught in thinking "I'll just be happy if x is my job", or similar lines of thinking. Which I already know, I just need to keep reminding myself I know it.

 

 

[BaguaKicksAss]

Btw, working for less money, but in a job you really enjoy (or with coworkers you really like) is far more worth it from what I have found. Making lots of money is no fun if you are miserable. Also manual labor jobs can end up paying more than office work if you plan it right.