Western medicine - what doesn't it know about energy?

[Brian]

<snip>

I like Master Chunyi Lin's idea of having a healer in every family...

<snip>

 

Not uniquely a Spring Forest thing. I am a "family healer" (and I am working on certification and "license to touch" so I can safely extend that to "family & friends and others").

[Tactile]

I'm a bit late to the discussion, but regarding CM and the western picture of the human body there was a very interesting book that came out this year, written by a British emergency medical doctor who also has had training in chinese medicine:

 

http://www.amazon.com/The-Spark-Machine-Acupuncture-Mysteries/dp/1848191960

 

It's not perfect, but has some very interesting concepts about the connection of the theories of CM and western anatomy & physiology. Embryology is discussed a lot in the book and looked through the lens of CM. So much stuff there which starts to makes sense. For example you get the divisions of the meridians (tai yin, shao yang etc) straight from embryological development!

 

He also talks about the channels being related to embryological development and fascial planes of the body from where you get the connections of channels to organ, which is something that is definitely a bit hard to see first that why sticking a needle to a point in the leg would have any effect to the liver organ, for example. Also the functions of the organs from chinese perspective (Liver regulates the smooth flow of qi, kidney rules the bones etc) are all explained from the perspective of western physiology better than I have ever seen before.

 

The book starts a bit slow and during the first maybe 50 pages I was thinking if it was even worthwhile to finish, so if you decide to read it, follow it through! I do recommend it!

 

Oh, and thanks for all the discussion in this thread. The image of that pile of shit was a suprisingly comforting one..

[Taomeow]

I'm a bit late to the discussion, but regarding CM and the western picture of the human body there was a very interesting book that came out this year, written by a British emergency medical doctor who also has had training in chinese medicine:

 

http://www.amazon.com/The-Spark-Machine-Acupuncture-Mysteries/dp/1848191960

 

It's not perfect, but has some very interesting concepts about the connection of the theories of CM and western anatomy & physiology. Embryology is discussed a lot in the book and looked through the lens of CM. So much stuff there which starts to makes sense. For example you get the divisions of the meridians (tai yin, shao yang etc) straight from embryological development!

 

He also talks about the channels being related to embryological development and fascial planes of the body from where you get the connections of channels to organ, which is something that is definitely a bit hard to see first that why sticking a needle to a point in the leg would have any effect to the liver organ, for example. Also the functions of the organs from chinese perspective (Liver regulates the smooth flow of qi, kidney rules the bones etc) are all explained from the perspective of western physiology better than I have ever seen before.

 

The book starts a bit slow and during the first maybe 50 pages I was thinking if it was even worthwhile to finish, so if you decide to read it, follow it through! I do recommend it!

 

Oh, and thanks for all the discussion in this thread. The image of that pile of shit was a suprisingly comforting one..

 

 

Thanks you, I was waiting for years for someone to notice the connection! Yes, Chinese medicine derives a lot of what it knows from its uncanny expertise in embryonic development. I discovered it when I was reading a book on embryology (Western, for MDs), many years ago, and was thrilled to learn that embryonic layers, distinct and separate starting points of development which proceed to form specific organs and systems, coincided to a T with what TCM asserted about particular organs "governing" such and such parts of the body -- the Kidneys "govern" the bones and the ears, the Lungs, the skin, etc.. This never makes sense to a Western researcher or medical professional who doesn't know embryology -- yet one look and they'd discover that the organs in TCM "govern" what develops from the same embryonic layer as the "governor!" And if this isn't enough to floor one's mind, I don't know what is! How did they know?.. Aha... here's where a real scientific inquiry could start... I"m not holding my breath though...

[eye_of_the_storm]

[eye_of_the_storm]

Not uniquely a Spring Forest thing. I am a "family healer" (and I am working on certification and "license to touch" so I can safely extend that to "family & friends and others").

 

I agree, something that has been lost worldwide (generally)... and at multiple levels

 

/ Self determination, self responsibility, self sufficiency = freedom

 

Oh... but "there is no self" ....ummm ~ haha

 

We weren't soo... compartmentalized.... centralized... isolated tasks like robots... (unknowing)

 

An adult would have been many things: father/mother, farmer, builder, warrior, poet, mystic, healer etc

 

All the power was within the family/ community

 

governments/ corps/ institutions basically obsolete... or voluntary community ... in matters close to home and not half a planet away... meddling in other peoples lives/ cultures etc.

 

Unfortunately these Globalist/ Universalist ideologies will not cease until the whole world is centralized and under their jurisdiction and supreme understanding... or whatever they believe gives them the right to torment the planet as a whole.

 

One true God became One true Government, One true $cience and One World... etc... all must yield! resistance is futile! love is all there is... hahah

 

 

Three Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky,

Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone,

Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die,

One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne

In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,

One Ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them,

In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.^[1]

 

Utopia awaits!

 

Can't you feel the democrazy?

 

 

//

 

 

^ Womens liberation.

 

 

^ Equality

 

 

^ Culture + Freedom

 

//

 

Enjoy the medicine...

 

Edited November 12, 2014 by eye_of_the_storm

[Cookie Monster]

.

Edited May 5, 2021 by Ocean Form

[Michael Sternbach]

eye_of_the_storm wrote:

 

love is all there is... hahah

 

 

"Love is the law, love under will."

 

Aleister Crowley

 

Edited November 17, 2014 by Michael Sternbach

[Taomeow]

Another weird thing about the research of western empiricism.

It has a very weird relationship with time.

It doesn't want time to exist as a scientific factor.

Or more precisely, it wants to be selective about when time is a criteria for validation.

 

For example.

The majority of rats survived. That means the GMO is safe. Nevermind the long term effects for when it is released into a whole ecosystem, which we've done no research on at all.

'The results are ok right now' ("3D") is made to appear as a valid argument for introducing it into a real world timeline ("4D").

 

Western technology is promoted as safe until other evidence is found.

 

With technology from other cultures the dynamic is inversed.

Having time on its side, any folk medicine is shown as superstition.

 

An exchange today between me and my acupuncturist/herbalist (Chinese, poor English, family lineage, mom one of the theorists of acupuncture at a Chinese university):

 

TM: How about some herbs too?

Acupuncturist: (hesitantly) They work slowly.

TM: I didn't grow up in America.

A: They are expensive these days.

TM: I do my hair and nails myself, have never had a professional pedicure in my life, and what I save, I invest into health.

A: You would have to cook them for a long time. They taste bad.

TM: I've done this hundreds of times. I know how. I know what they taste like. In Xi'an, I had boiled giant centipedes in the formula.

A: Insurance won't pay.

TM (losing patience a bit): You think they won't help?

A: I think they will help, but I guarantee it won't be tomorrow.

TM: I know. I won't expect "results" tomorrow with a long-standing problem. If there's no difference in three months, I'll stop.

 

And so on... Poor doctor has learned his lesson about what his patients want... I used to see him a few years ago, he was new to this country then, and so enthusiastic about what he can give! Of course he takes those herbs himself, I asked, in an accusatory tone of voice, and he confessed. I asked because in these few years that I hadn't seen him, physically he's grown younger. But looks like his spirit has grown older, and wiser...

Edited November 18, 2014 by Taomeow

[MooNiNite]

western medicine is garbage when it comes to energy bodies, try fixing a ruptured dan tien at the hospital. or even a ruptured channel. nope, gotta go find a master

[Taomeow]

western medicine is garbage when it comes to energy bodies, try fixing a ruptured dan tien at the hospital. or even a ruptured channel. nope, gotta go find a master

 

Try fixing a ruptured Achilles tendon.

 

A significant other was yelled at by a surgeon who got very upset when he questioned the urgent necessity of a surgery -- questioned very slightly, very humbly. So he limped on to seek a second opinion. The second doctor said, "There's less chance of repeat trauma with surgery than without." "By how much less?" Anyone into those guess-a-number games for this one?.. Hail to an honest doctor. He could have yelled too, instead of naming that number that nearly sent the patient to the ER with the new problem of shock.

 

Try fixing a fractured sternum. The treatment is -- nothing. Painkillers. Addictive and inefficient for this kind of pain. (Until someone sent me a much less addictive, way more efficient painkiller from another country, I was marveling at the level of messed-up-in-the-head that awful Vicodin generates without taking even the tiniest edge off the pain.) There's a marked tendency of doing nothing useful when doing something is indicated, and doing something useless when doing nothing is indicated. I wonder.

 

OK, no more getting into this thread, or I'll never get out.

[Ya Mu]

Try fixing a ruptured Achilles tendon.

 

A significant other was yelled at by a surgeon who got very upset when he questioned the urgent necessity of a surgery -- questioned very slightly, very humbly. So he limped on to seek a second opinion. The second doctor said, "There's less chance of repeat trauma with surgery than without." "By how much less?" Anyone into those guess-a-number games for this one?.. Hail to an honest doctor. He could have yelled too, instead of naming that number that nearly sent the patient to the ER with the new problem of shock.

 

Try fixing a fractured sternum. The treatment is -- nothing. Painkillers. Addictive and inefficient for this kind of pain. (Until someone sent me a much less addictive, way more efficient painkiller from another country, I was marveling at the level of messed-up-in-the-head that awful Vicodin generates without taking even the tiniest edge off the pain.) There's a marked tendency of doing nothing useful when doing something is indicated, and doing something useless when doing nothing is indicated. I wonder.

 

OK, no more getting into this thread, or I'll never get out.

Yes, people want and deserve actual help instead of the "pain"killers which are nothing more than addictive toxins. I do think they are appropriate for an initial injury - sometimes. But never more than a day or two, unless the person is already dying. This country is full of folks addicted to these toxic substances and it is atrocious. The person needs actual help - not more problems. Unfortunately as the costs of these substances are very high, there is a highly lucrative illegal secondary market. A lot of the smarter doctors are now testing their pain patients to see if they are taking the meds.

This secondary market has also led to the latest outbreak of heroin addiction as the newer heroin is cheaper than the secondary market of painkillers; so many people have turned to that and it is spreading. The latest heroin addict - long haired hippy type - nope - more likely the kid next door that started with mom's pain killers.

 

All the more reason for therapies like clinical qigong to be embraced by western medicine.

[doc benway]

Try fixing a ruptured Achilles tendon.

 

A significant other was yelled at by a surgeon who got very upset when he questioned the urgent necessity of a surgery -- questioned very slightly, very humbly. So he limped on to seek a second opinion. The second doctor said, "There's less chance of repeat trauma with surgery than without." "By how much less?" Anyone into those guess-a-number games for this one?.. Hail to an honest doctor. He could have yelled too, instead of naming that number that nearly sent the patient to the ER with the new problem of shock.

 

Try fixing a fractured sternum. The treatment is -- nothing. Painkillers. Addictive and inefficient for this kind of pain. (Until someone sent me a much less addictive, way more efficient painkiller from another country, I was marveling at the level of messed-up-in-the-head that awful Vicodin generates without taking even the tiniest edge off the pain.) There's a marked tendency of doing nothing useful when doing something is indicated, and doing something useless when doing nothing is indicated. I wonder.

 

OK, no more getting into this thread, or I'll never get out.

 

Here's a good meta-analysis of Achilles tendon treatment published a few years ago that shows equally good results with and without surgery, including re-rupture rates, provided the proper rehab program was employed.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23224384

 

I'm of the mind that pharmaceuticals are poison.

Sometimes they do more good than harm, sometimes more harm than good.

They should always be used with caution.

Vicodin works great for some, not so much for others - gave my father serious hallucinations.

I think that, in general, addiction is more a reflection of the host than the chemical, with a few notable exceptions.

[Taomeow]

Here's a good meta-analysis of Achilles tendon treatment published a few years ago that shows equally good results with and without surgery, including re-rupture rates, provided the proper rehab program was employed.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23224384

 

I'm of the mind that pharmaceuticals are poison.

Sometimes they do more good than harm, sometimes more harm than good.

They should always be used with caution.

Vicodin works great for some, not so much for others - gave my father serious hallucinations.

I think that, in general, addiction is more a reflection of the host than the chemical, with a few notable exceptions.

 

(accent in bold mine) Unfortunately commonly understood as an open invitation to blame the victim. Blame the victim, and the problem purportedly disappears. Let them work on themselves, all those hosts, to be better people -- they've nothing to complain about, the chemicals are good, it's they who are messed up.

 

A good example of how the substance changes the host I've seen in quite a number of older people who came to this country at the age of around their 60s, parents of all my friends and family members who followed their children and grandchildren. Twenty years down the road all these old people were addicted -- sic -- massively and irreversibly -- to painkillers, antidepressants, anti-anxiety drugs -- dozens of brands, sometimes closer to hundreds over the years (I know because my mom never throws any bottles away) -- which they never took in their whole previous lives elsewhere. After a while no one was recognizable as parents, grandparents, etc. among them -- they were (and are, those who are alive) collections of assorted reactions to assorted drugs they've been put on and hooked on. No personality of their own anymore. And some of them are people I've known since childhood. Host or chemicals?.. Steve -- the system. The system makes use of the host's susceptibility to chemicals, and it's not side effects, any of this. It's all effects, and I believe it's all intended effects.

 

God damn this thread. I'll never get out. OK, tying my hands behind my back.

[doc benway]

Nevermind... I'll let you go

 

Edited November 21, 2014 by steve