US Mid-Term Elections

[ralis]

 

Likewise with a Federal budget, which is a legal requirement but which hasn't happened ONCE during the entire Obama administration -- the House has proposed them but Senate Majority Leader has refused to bring them up for debate or vote and instead the government has financed itself with "Continuing Resolutions."

 

 

 

If you care to post facts as opposed to right wing propaganda, that would be appreciated. Here are several links to recent proposed budgets submitted by Obama.

 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010/02/01/us/budget.html?_r=0

 

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/aug/05/buddy-roemer/obama-submitted-budgets/

 

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/02/13/us/politics/2013-budget-proposal-graphic.html?ref=politics

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/03/us/politics/03budget.html

 

http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/senate/227857-senate-rejects-obama-budget-in-99-0-vote

[Brian]

All bills concerning the collection of revenues are constitutionally required to originate in the US House of Representatives, not the White House. Obama's proposals (regardless of their merit or lack thereof) didn't even get support from his own party (notice the 99-0 rejection in your last link?) and the real budgets originating in the House never left the Senate.

 

EDIT: Obviously, this is back to "constitutional law" again, despite Apech's request to stay away from it in this thread, but I am just responding to misleading information...

Edited November 6, 2014 by Brian

[ralis]

All bills concerning the collection of revenues are constitutionally required to originate in the US House of Representatives, not the White House. Obama's proposals (regardless of their merit or lack thereof) didn't even get support from his own party (notice the 99-0 rejection in your last link?) and the real budgets originating in the House never left the Senate.

 

EDIT: Obviously, this is back to "constitutional law" again, despite Apech's request to stay away from it in this thread, but I am just responding to misleading information...

 

I am not certain where you are going with this, but here is an overview of the budget process.

 

https://www.nationalpriorities.org/budget-basics/federal-budget-101/federal-budget-process/

[silent thunder]

Lets not argue about constitutional law ... what I want to understand is what the appeal of the Republican Party is. I mean the appeal to people who previously voted in Democrat Governors. What would make them switch sides like that?

from what I gather... the gist is that the religious right loves the opposition to gay marriage and abortion

anyone in business likes the promises to deregulate, so unmitigated greed can pave the way for another collapse...

[Vmarco]

Anyone care to explain to a concerned Brit. why there was such a big Republican vote? I assume we now have a lame duck president and just wait a couple of years for a republican president????

 

American's are, for the most part, very easily media-ted,...for example, "Even after the final report of Charles Duelfer to Congress (Oct 2004) saying that Iraq did not have a significant WMD program, 72% of Bush supporters continue to believe that Iraq had actual WMD. Iraq is in much worse condition after Bush's illegal invasion.

 

To me, anyone who votes for current Republican candidates in America are anti-American,...as each and every Republican candidate puts their faith-based agendas before their Oath to the Constitution. The only choice the average American believe they have are with pathetic Democrats, who also put their faith-based agendas before their Oath to the Constitution.

 

An excellent example of the sickness that has become America, especially since the Reagan Era, was the May 2002 9th District Court Ruling that said, "The Pledge, as currently codified, is an impermissible government endorsement of religion because it sends a message to unbelievers that they are outsiders, not full members of the political community, and an accompanying message to adherents that they are insiders, favored members of the political community."

 

In essense, they said "Under God" promoted a situation where Taoists, atheists, polytheists, Buddhists, Deists, Wiccans, Humanists, female based monotheists, etc, are not members of the Community.

 

Shortly after a federal court ruled the Pledge of Allegiance unconstitutional, the Senate, on the following day approved a resolution "expressing support for the Pledge of Allegiance, with the illegal term. The resolution passed 99-0. Americans called for the death of those Judges.

 

A March 2004 poll by the Associated Press showed that nearly 86 percent of Americans want to keep the reference "Under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance. Apparently they don’t believe the First Amendment’s requirement that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof” is an endorsement of their monotheistic form religious expression.

 

In the song “Superstition,” Stevie Wonder sings, “When you believe in things that you don’t understand, then you suffer. Superstition ain’t the way.” Actually, the World suffers because of America's faith-based, Abrahamic superstitions. And that is why American's vote for the sick fxxk"s they do.

 

"it is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society" J Krishnamurti

 

IMO, the World today is sicker than any era in recorded history.

Edited November 7, 2014 by Vmarco

[Vmarco]

It just shows that a majority of Americans are unhappy with what our government has been doing for the past 6 years. They want change. So we change politicians. Doesn't mean anything though because nothing will really change.

 

Americans will remain unhappy, until they let go of their faith-based Abrahamic and Capitalistic neurosis which they cling to for their identity, and are insistent about imposing on others.

[Vmarco]

I would like to remind Y'all that I think my country is headed toward Fascism, not Communism. And Obama has supported this movement in nearly everything he has done.

 

I would say that America is already quite Fascist.

 

"had to say: Fascism should more appropriately be called corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power."

Benito Mussolini

 

Commonly, fascism is usually defined as a system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.

 

America's fascism pivots upon a policy of belligerent monotheistic nationalism. Those opiated by the insanity of monotheism do not recognize the symptoms,...just as the common German was caught up in their nationalism in the 30's.

 

 

"We don't see things as they are. We see things as we are." ~ Anais Nin

 

"Were cockroaches to have a notion of God, they would probably imagine Him as a very big and powerful cockroach." Voltaire

 

“If a soul is left in darkness, sins will be committed. The guilty one is not he who commits the sin, but the one who causes the darkness.” Victor Hugo.

 

"Whoever has the blood of theism in his veins, stands from the start in a false and dishonest position to all things." Friedrich Nietzsche

 

"Faith" means the will to avoid knowing what is true. Friedrich Nietzsche

 

"Christianity and Democracy are inevitably enemies" RJ Rushdoony

 

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful.” Seneca, Roman philosopher

 

"I regard monotheism as the greatest disaster ever to befall the human race. I see no good in Judaism, Christianity, or Islam." - Gore Vidal

 

"Those who can make you in believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire

[ralis]

I would say that America is already quite Fascist.

 

"had to say: Fascism should more appropriately be called corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power."

Benito Mussolini

 

Commonly, fascism is usually defined as a system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.

 

America's fascism pivots upon a policy of belligerent monotheistic nationalism. Those opiated by the insanity of monotheism do not recognize the symptoms,...just as the common German was caught up in their nationalism in the 30's.

 

 

"We don't see things as they are. We see things as we are." ~ Anais Nin

 

"Were cockroaches to have a notion of God, they would probably imagine Him as a very big and powerful cockroach." Voltaire

 

“If a soul is left in darkness, sins will be committed. The guilty one is not he who commits the sin, but the one who causes the darkness.” Victor Hugo.

 

"Whoever has the blood of theism in his veins, stands from the start in a false and dishonest position to all things." Friedrich Nietzsche

 

"Faith" means the will to avoid knowing what is true. Friedrich Nietzsche

 

"Christianity and Democracy are inevitably enemies" RJ Rushdoony

 

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful.” Seneca, Roman philosopher

 

"I regard monotheism as the greatest disaster ever to befall the human race. I see no good in Judaism, Christianity, or Islam." - Gore Vidal

 

"Those who can make you in believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire

 

Excellent explanation of fascism. Most have no idea as to what fascism is except how the right wing propagandists define it. Fascism always generates from the extreme right wing and that is exactly what is happening in this country by the extremists that control the right wing of the Republican party.

 

Since Bush was appointed to office by SCOTUS, there has been a resurgence of racism and nationalism in the guise of patriotism.

 

We went to see the movie 'Fury' last night which was an accurate portrayal of the horrors that rampant nationalism/fascism can cause. Movements such as those are not started by the many, but the few. I recommend to those that are clueless as to what the horrors of nationalism/fascism are, to watch this movie and understand what insane ideological fervor can produce.

Edited November 7, 2014 by ralis

[ralis]

i argued against you ralis, as you know lol, in previous years here in off topic threads.

however, you have offered a solid presentation of your position.

and i am looking at it different lately, maybe the past 6 months.>>concerning fascism.

the mussolini model of fascism --- how it viewed corporations--- is different than the current model, am i right?

i think events in ukraine right now is the front lines with the fascism and corporatism war but it is going on everywhere right now, unrest after elections,

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatism

 

and from my view we are already in a ww3 of sorts, a very different type of war to be sure than previous ww's

but we were all told in 2001, this is a different type of war now, and 21st century war, well look at all the toppled north african and middle eastern activities and eastern europe going on. propaganda from all sides, info wars, proxy wars

and use of mercenaries, mercenaries not only on the battle fields but in the houses of governments

 

the cia is now warning of "emminent!" (semiotics) economic apocalypse

 

https://truthernews.wordpress.com/2014/09/19/september-2014-cyber-terror-warning-cia-cyber-attack-on-u-s-economy-imminent/

 

I think Vmarco stated it quite well as to what the current state of fascism looks like. Not much different than the 30's.

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/36813-us-mid-term-elections/page-4#entry590830

[Vmarco]

Since Bush was appointed to office by SCOTUS, there has been a resurgence of racism and nationalism in the guise of patriotism.

 

We went to see the movie 'Fury' last night which was an accurate portrayal of the horrors that rampant nationalism/fascism can cause. Movements such as those are not started by the many, but the few. I recommend to those that are clueless as to what the horrors of nationalism/fascism are, to watch this movie and understand what insane ideological fervor can produce.

 

IMO the stepping stones began before the criminal W....as his father said, "I don't know that those who don't believe in God should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God." George HW Bush, August 27, 1987

 

But back to W,....a very telling thing about America is why hasn't George W Bush been executed for treason and Crimes Against Humanity? His list of crimes are mind-boggling....here's just a few:

 

http://warisacrime.org/busharticles

 

Here's another definition of fascism:

 

fascism. n. A philosophy or system of government, usually religious in nature, that advocates or exercises a dictatorship of the extreme right, typically through the merging of state and business leadership, together with an ideology of belligerent faith-based nationalism, that suppresses the opposition through terror and censorship.

 

Several years ago I came across a copy of a work sheet for a Tea Party seminar on Truth Suppression. Although some Tea People are libertarian, most are actually social conservatives with an agenda more sickening than the 1930's Nazi's.

 

Every psychological survey I've seen of Tea People suggests they are some really sick people. Ultimately, IMO, the only way stop this Tea meme, is to make dishonesty a crime, with a severe punishment,...unfortunately,...with today's Middle being media-ted further Right than the Far Right of the Reagan Era,...it will take a serious revolution for honesty to come back to pre-McCarthy Era and their Right Wing revisionism.

[Marblehead]

I would say that America is already quite Fascist.

WoW! I don't even have a response. You did a very fine job with that.

[Brian]

Y'all are being played. The idea that totalitarianism is fundamentally different if a high-level operative is called Minister of Technology Manufacturing rather than CEO of General Electric (or the reverse) is a snow job.

 

Statists are all cut from the same cloth and they all use division to pit us against each other. They all use fear to get us to ask them to take our personal energy in exchange for empty promises of security and they all claim to be abusing us for our own good.

 

Obama is the biggest statist in US history but we are really only talking about degrees of dictatorial intent. W was a statist, too -- as was his father (he at least was fairly transparent about it...) Clinton was to a lesser degree (although Hillary is a hardcore Alinskyite like Obama). Carter, Nixon, Johnson, both Roosevelts, Wilson, Lincoln -- the history is deep.

 

It is like professional wrestling, where the actor-athletes rant and rail against their opponents on stage and in the ring but then have drinks together later while they count their money and laugh about the suckers who think it is real.

 

Yes, I am an advocate of rule of law and I do expect people to fulfill their oaths of office -- if someone thinks that is kooky right-wing extremism, I think that says more about them than me. Yes, I am in favor of limited government because unlimited government seems like a really bad idea -- guess I'm just crazy that way. Yes, I support distributed authority because I have trouble envisioning, or finding historical examples of, centralized authority working out well but I have no trouble envisioning or finding examples of centralized authority running amok.

 

Color me a dangerous nut-job, I guess...

[Brian]

I probably should have mentioned that Boehner, McConnell, Romney, Graham, McCain, etc., are also cut from that same cloth, they'e just back-benchers who will never have the chance to play Gaius Germanicus or Nimrod.

[Marblehead]

Color me a dangerous nut-job, I guess...

I will probably color outside the lines too. I'm that way, you know.

 

I'm glad you didn't add Ike to that list of names you presented.

 

Carter had good intentions but found that he just couldn't do everything himself and thereby experienced failure after failure. But I still admire the person.

 

Yes, politicians will tell us any lie we want to hear. Can't put too much blame on them; it is we who want to hear the lies.

 

Anyhow, little is going to change because too few are paying attention.

[Marblehead]

I probably should have mentioned that Boehner, McConnell, Romney, Graham, McCain, etc., are also cut from that same cloth, they'e just back-benchers who will never have the chance to play Gaius Germanicus or Nimrod.

Naw. You did fine without creating a list so long that it wouldn't post.

[soaring crane]

Take a look at the 14th amendment to the US Constitution and its historical significance. That's where it all began. I'm referring to the (in)corporatism of today.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#Incorporation_2

[Brian]

Yes, the so-called Miracle Amendment is an abomination and its ratification was, too. The Union was effectively demolished in 1868 -- it just hasn't finished its slow collapse yet. Some try to stave off the inevitable crumbling while others pour gasoline on the fire and cheer.

[Apech]

Take a look at the 14th amendment to the US Constitution and its historical significance. That's where it all began. I'm referring to the (in)corporatism of today.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#Incorporation_2

 

Could you explain this in simple terms for me?

[Brian]

 

Could you explain this in simple terms for me?

Short answer is that the 14th Amendment is misused by some to selectively claim Federal laws trump State laws.

 

Want the longer answer or does that suffice?

[Apech]

Short answer is that the 14th Amendment is misused by some to selectively claim Federal laws trump State laws.

 

Want the longer answer or does that suffice?

 

 

No I get it, thanks.

[soaring crane]

No, that's not it. That amendment opened the floodgates that resulted in the mega corporations we know today. The case involving the Southern Pacific Railroad had more influence on the economic situation of today, and everything that's wrong with it, than arguably any other event in recent (or even ancient) history. It set the stage for the introduction of the Super Rich and made the executives of US corporations virtually immune to any penalties for their actions. See recent news involving GM cars and the deaths they caused, for one egregious example out of what I suppose are thousands.

[soaring crane]

To the OP, I would add that the lack of any credible, publicly funded, independent media outlets in the US is always a major factor in anything that seems incomprehensible to outsiders, and insiders alike. I mean when it comes to understanding political events and the very bizarre phenomenon of so many Americans seemingly eager to vote against their own best interests. For example, low income demographics who are vehemently opposed to organized labor. If, for example, the unions have been corrupted over time, it would actually not be difficult to clean them up and get them back on track.

 

But that's never an option. The corporations, with their lackeys in the various governors mansions, have actually succeeded in spreading the propaganda that organized labor is in itself an evil that is worse than... Worse than what? Zero protections? Sounds crazy, I know. But there ya go. The power of the media.

[Brian]

Yes, ,that's also true!

 

As I said earlier, the 14th is an abomination. It is two pages long (where most amendments are no more than a few sentences) and was ram-tossed through the ratification process. It is used as a "justify whatever you want" amendment by judicial activists. Wikipedia has a mind-boggling list of Supreme Court cases decided on the basis of the Miracle Amendment.

[Vmarco]

 

 

Yes, I am an advocate of rule of law and I do expect people to fulfill their oaths of office -- if someone thinks that is kooky right-wing extremism, I think that says more about them than me.

 

The thing is,...not a single Republican or "right winger," or more correctly those consumed with the neurosis of conservatism, put their Oath to the Constitution before their Faith Based agendas.

 

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Society/Conservatives_Deconstruct.html

 

The Dictatorship in America should not be seen as limited to one person,...but the illiberal Conservative whole, who are enabled by the illiberal Left.

 

There are very, very few actual liberals in America.

 

What is a liberal?

 

On September 14, 1960, John F Kennedy said, “a Liberal is someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people — their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties — someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, that is what a ‘Liberal’ means..."

 

Conservatives look behind, not ahead,...and do not care about those Civil Liberties that conflict with their Faith Based agendas.

 

Left Wingers, pretend to look ahead, not be hind,...and do not care about those Civil Liberties that conflict with their Faith Based agendas.

 

Anyone who says that America was upon Christian based ideals is anti-American.

 

Any politician who puts their beliefs above their Oath to the Constitution,...should immediately, under the 14th Amendment, sec 3,...have their citizenship revoked. That includes every current republican Senator and Congressperson,...every democrat Senator, and nearly all democrat congresspeople.

 

"the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded upon the Christian Religion". President John Adams, 1797 Statement drafted by George Washington, unanomously ratified by the Senate, and signed into law by President John Adams in 1797, is a law because the US Constitution says all such statements are the law (According to Article VI of the United States Constitution.

 

On February 10, 1814, Thomas Jefferson wrote that common law “is that system of law, which was introduced by the Saxons on their settlement in England . . . about the middle of the fifth century. But Christianity was not introduced till the seventh century. . . We may safely affirm that Christianity neither is, nor ever was, a part of the common law.”

 

Christian values are not American values. Christian values are not nature’s values. Christian values can never lead the world towards an era of peace.

Edited November 11, 2014 by Vmarco

[Vmarco]

Yes, ,that's also true!

 

As I said earlier, the 14th is an abomination. It is two pages long (where most amendments are no more than a few sentences) and was ram-tossed through the ratification process. It is used as a "justify whatever you want" amendment by judicial activists. Wikipedia has a mind-boggling list of Supreme Court cases decided on the basis of the Miracle Amendment.

 

Yes,...Conservatives believe the 14th Amendment is an abomination, because conservatives are an abomination under the 14th Amendment, Sec 3.