A Story and a Question: Joy, Peace, and Loss in Christian Prayer

[additionnixon]

When I was about 20, nine years ago, I began a personal practice of prayer, guided by the book, Christ the Eternal Tao. Beginning with watchfulness, I learned to separate my identity from my thoughts. Repeating the words prescribed, "Lord, Jesus Christ, have mercy on me", I gave my mind activity while retreating from a place where thought was the power I relied on to interact with the world. I sought to want nothing, and eventually, for a moment, I found something very much like what I was looking for.

 

Over a few particularly eventful weeks, I experienced sensations that I can't really describe, except it felt like the way I was existing at those times was fundamentally different. My fluttering thoughts seemed to disappear, the darkness and silence became tangible and full of a rich reality. Existing itself felt easier and more natural, to the point where I wondered how I had considered anything else to be natural, and I found myself wondering why or how I ever exist in the heavy, painful way that I had previously considered the only way.

 

I consider those moments to be the highest moments of my life. In addition, there were moments in prayer during which I felt a sort of ecstasy, and began mentally babbling sort of embarrassing things, but those events make far less sense and seem less grounded than those of peace and stillness.

 

After these experiences, I never found those places again. I found different ones, which lasted for various lengths of time, from moments to weeks, from a temporary lightness of heart for a few weeks to a feeling of being purged from deep inside myself. I think partly, I never found that peace again because I have wanted it so desperately, and it even led me to feel betrayed or abandoned by the God I had been praying to.

 

I now feel a deep need to return to the underlying reality, to mitigate this deep feeling of loss and find that rich silence again. To learn to love everything exactly the way it is, and for no reason than that it exists. I have mostly shed the ideas of the god I had felt obligated to create, I have mostly shed the resentment, as well. I think I've mostly shed the fear of closing my eyes and finding a silence that remains thin and insubstantial.

 

I'm just looking for motivation now. I thought that maybe new techniques and new readings would help with this, and I've felt a connection to Taoism because of my past, but the way I see it being presented is discouraging. I don't really want something that considers itself "revolutionary", for example. I just want something simple, to facilitate the enjoyment of silence and the desire and ability to experience silence and stillness more deeply. That's all I want, I think. Something to help me focus on embracing existence at this exact moment. Does anything jump to mind?

[dust]

I've felt a connection to Taoism because of my past, but the way I see it being presented is discouraging. I don't really want something that considers itself "revolutionary", for example. I just want something simple, to facilitate the enjoyment of silence and the desire and ability to experience silence and stillness more deeply.

 

Whose presentation of Taoism are you finding discouraging? Who is claiming it to be "revolutionary" ? I shall have words with them

 

There are, as you will see here for example, many different types of "Taoist". One thing they generally agree on is that our understanding of Tao came first through the Laozi and the Zhuangzi.

 

Rather than looking to attach yourself to any particular modern idea of Taoism, or accepting any version as presented in a nice "simple" package, you should read these texts, think about things, talk with people, and accept what you accept.

 

How do you know what to think unless you know what you're not thinking about?

 

 

 

That's all I want, I think. Something to help me focus on embracing existence at this exact moment. Does anything jump to mind?

 

As well as Tao stuff, Zen meditation might be useful for practicing this mindfulness of which you speak. Zen is Indian Buddhism mixed with a little Daoism and other Sino-Japanese ideas. I'm still very new to it, but have found it quite fascinating so far.

 

 

There's a journey ahead of you!

 

 

P.S.

I don't know if you've heard of him, but my favourite teacher of all these ideas thus far is (was) a man called Alan Watts. You can find his lectures on Dao and Zen on YouTube. Very useful, especially at the beginning. He's done all the research for you.

[thelerner]

I'm just spit balling here because you never know what will motivate someone else. In some forms of Taoism is the practice and veneration of Kwan Yin. Specific prayers and stuff. People form a personal relation with her. It may evoke the same experiences you felt when you were younger.

[Jeff]

Hi Additionnixon,

 

Why not reconnect with Jesus? Sounds like you had a good communion going.

 

Luke 17: 20-21

20 Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; 21 nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.”

 

Best,

Jeff

[woodcarver]

That was a nice story, thanks for posting. I second the meditation and DDJ of course.

 

By revolutionary do you mean when texts take on the subject of government?

 

As for motivation, you already sound motivated enough to get along with a taoist You've reached a good place if you're open to try new things every once in a while. Lots of stuff!

[idiot_stimpy]

Nixon what you're looking for is right now. Right now is it. It is effortless to 'be' right now, so there is nothing for you to do to obtain right now. Nothing for you to achieve, nothing for you to think about, nothing for you to feel, no thoughts to welcome or repress, to be right now.

[idiot_stimpy]

[additionnixon]

Whose presentation of Taoism are you finding discouraging? Who is claiming it to be "revolutionary" ? I shall have words with them

Sorry! I guess I misspoke about the "revolutionary" thing. I was talking about Qi Gong and Tai Chi stuff I had been browsing through. What I meant was the way different methods and techniques are presented was discouraging. Everything I had learned about Taoism up to this point had simply seemed to be a practice of complete simplicity, so stumbling upon a bunch of "ancient Chinese secret" stuff was a little upsetting. Not to say there's no legitimacy to any of it; I think my approach to the subject is what was essentially flawed.

 

Thank you for your suggestions on Taoism and Zen. I'm certainly not looking to attach myself to a particular doctrine. I suppose I'm trying to recultivate my love for the present and all that it contains and is contained by.

 

 

I'm just spit balling here because you never know what will motivate someone else. In some forms of Taoism is the practice and veneration of Kwan Yin. Specific prayers and stuff. People form a personal relation with her. It may evoke the same experiences you felt when you were younger.

 

Thank you for your suggestion. My most profound moments in Christianity were actually the ones where I distanced myself from specific or lengthy prayers. Talking with God, the saints, etc. was never particularly inspiring to me. I felt most connected with the God Who dwells in darkness; with Whom my heart (or whatever) seemed to converse more freely and completely as my mind became still.

 

 

Hi Additionnixon,

 

Why not reconnect with Jesus? Sounds like you had a good communion going.

 

Luke 17: 20-21

20 Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; 21 nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.”

 

Best,

Jeff

 

Part of why I'm here is that I, to some extent, feel abandoned by Jesus. There's a lot of turmoil associated with those experiences, and I'm not ready to jump back into that. If I arrive at the center and I find that it is Jesus, I won't be disappointed, but I don't want to be distracted by cosmology, epistemology, and so forth as I search for a truth that, ultimately, can't be described.

 

 

Nixon what you're looking for is right now. Right now is it. It is effortless to 'be' right now, so there is nothing for you to do to obtain right now. Nothing for you to achieve, nothing for you to think about, nothing for you to feel, no thoughts to welcome or repress, to be right now.

 

I think I know what you mean. And I think you're right. Maybe I just needed to be reminded of that.

[Spotless]

You appear to be baiting us with a real lack of clarity in your postings.

 

From your initial posting it could not be gleaned that Jesus abandoned you - it seemed the opposite - you prayed and from what you said you had a wonderful response.

 

Perhaps you could try harder to actually give us better clarity on what you are trying to get across?

[idiot_stimpy]

I think I know what you mean. And I think you're right. Maybe I just needed to be reminded of that.

 

[additionnixon]

You appear to be baiting us with a real lack of clarity in your postings. From your initial posting it could not be gleaned that Jesus abandoned you - it seemed the opposite - you prayed and from what you said you had a wonderful response. Perhaps you could try harder to actually give us better clarity on what you are trying to get across?

 

While all I have is my word to assure you that I'm not being intentionally unclear, I did explicitly state that I felt, "betrayed or abandoned by the God I had been praying to," in my initial post. Baiting implies that I'm being somehow malicious in my responses, which is evidently untrue, and all of my responses have provided further clarification. If there's something specific you're not understanding, please ask me that specific question.

 

I am here because I unexpectedly found myself in a state of internal crisis. As a teenager, I made a conscious decision to remain alive for as long as circumstances allow; basically, I understood that I would not ever end my own life. I recently realized that, for a while, I've been mostly motivated by negative things; fear and avoidance of pain and isolation being two of the major ones. I think its important for me to be running toward something, rather than away from. Now I suspect that running is really going to get me nowhere.

 

I'm fishing for insight, is all. So far, I'm impressed with and grateful for the responses I've received here.

[dust]

Sorry! I guess I misspoke about the "revolutionary" thing. I was talking about Qi Gong and Tai Chi stuff I had been browsing through. What I meant was the way different methods and techniques are presented was discouraging. Everything I had learned about Taoism up to this point had simply seemed to be a practice of complete simplicity, so stumbling upon a bunch of "ancient Chinese secret" stuff was a little upsetting. Not to say there's no legitimacy to any of it; I think my approach to the subject is what was essentially flawed.

 

Yes, I found the same thing. I think there's probably something to learn from all the mystical "ancient secret" stuff, but really, in terms of "Tao" itself, all that's needed is those 2 books.

 

 

Thank you for your suggestions on Taoism and Zen. I'm certainly not looking to attach myself to a particular doctrine. I suppose I'm trying to recultivate my love for the present and all that it contains and is contained by.

 

Cool. Let me offer one more suggestion, as someone who's got/had a similar intent.

 

The idea for many people practicing meditation is to remove thoughts, and "float" in the present moment -- or perhaps as you say, feel a love for the present and all that it contains. This, for me, comes in a few ways.

 

I first discovered what people meant by this with drawing. I love to draw, and when I really get into it I go into a deep zone where my mind is entirely focused on the page. No thoughts, aside from an intuitive sense of where the pencil will travel next. Relaxing and tiring at the same time. And very satisfying, especially when a good picture comes of it.

 

I can't do this on purpose, though -- it just happens when it happens. When I get attached to a certain portrait or sketch or whatever. So I started looking into traditional meditation practices, to try and help me find this thoughtlessness more easily. I realized that one can find it anywhere, with a bit of patience. One just has to be intent on doing the one thing that they're doing.

 

Sweeping the floor, peeling potatoes, juggling balls, running, eating nice food (and not nice food?), etc... one can be mindful, or "meditative", doing all these things. And each task can be enjoyable. I quite like sweeping, these days.

 

Breathing meditation is helping me. Where one focuses on the breath and the body itself (perhaps using a mala/rosary to count breaths, a mandala of some sort to focus on, or whatever other aids might be suggested by others). Not consciously trying to block out thoughts. Not consciously trying to block out anything, but trying to focus on one or two things, and letting that lead into focus on one, which ultimately leads to a lack of purposeful, active thinking. Maybe.

 

This is quite probably not what others will tell you, but this has helped me. Zen and Taoist theory/practice have been very useful.

[additionnixon]

Special thanks to dustybeijing and idiot_stimpy. You've both brought up ideas and practices that were transformative and foundational for me, but I somehow lost track of them on the way. It's already made a huge difference to just be content in knowing that I'm already here. It just sprung into my mind: one of the things that has become a sort of ideal for me, though I had kind of forgotten what it would mean to cultivate it, is what I remembered as "the art of non-action". It's known as wu wei? I never knew it as that, I just gravitated toward the concept. Anyway, I think this is the direction I was looking for, and I'm extremely grateful to everyone here for being so helpful.

[dust]

Well I'm glad it didn't come off entirely as ramblings from a madman

 

There's a lot of discussion on "wu wei" in the Taoist Textual Studies section, and a lot of disagreement and consensus on what it means...

[additionnixon]

Well, that's a bit foreboding. I think I'll focus on finding and reading passages where it's mentioned before I engage with the passionately opinionated.

 

A stranger brought up a Rumi quote to me today: "Silence is the language of god, all else is poor translation."

[dust]

Far fewer passionately opinionated people here than elsewhere on the net... more cool-headed agree-to-disagree types, and I've not seen any outraged passionate arguments (yet).

 

A sign of how helpful these philosophies and practices can be, I think...

Edited November 9, 2014 by dustybeijing

[Bearded Dragon]

You find peace in letting go. Then you lose peace by having the immense desire to get it back. The solution is to abandon the peace.

 

How? Just know that in that time there wasn't anything different. Peace or no peace things are the same. Just BE. This is true freedom void of wants and needs, and true peace. Thusness/Suchness.

 

The goal is not to achieve piece but to refine the self within all the ups and downs. You can do this by having no goal as your goal. This takes the pressure off. As such it doesn't matter what state you're in. It's not even that things will improve because things are already ok as they are.

 

Alternatively you could live perpetually in peace in a cave, but upon leaving I doubt you'd have that peace. That's my main point. There are things that need refinement before it perpetuates through all circumstances. The refinement happens by itself by giving up on it.

 

Not sure if that makes sense. I'm a bit distracted right now.

[additionnixon]

I like this so much, Bearded Dragon. It makes sense. And doesn't. And that's perfect.