The Will for Enlightenment

[manitou]

I'm currently reading the Avatamsaka Sutra as translated by Thomas Cleary. I just came across the most wonderful description of the 10th Stage of Enlightenment on page 804 of this 1600 page opus....and I just wanted to share this with those on the path - it sure gives a nice idea of a destination of sorts, a compass point worthy of setting our instruments.

 

 

"Listen to the excellent practices of enlightening beings,

Who practice calmness and self-control, are tranquil and peaceful in mind.

Who are like the sky, similar to space,

Who have shed all defilement and abide in knowledge of the Way.

 

Having cultivated good for countless eons

And served hundreds of thousands of buddhas

And honored many self-conquerors and saints,

The will for enlightenment is born for the good of the world.

 

Born is the will for enlightenment, equal to the Enlightened,

In those refined by discipline and austerity, who have reached ultimate patience,

Who act with modesty and dignity, born of virtue and knowledge,

Who are broad-minded and intent on enlightened knowledge.

 

To honor all the buddhas of past, present, and future,

Purify all lands throughout space,

Truly comprehend all truths and liberate beings,

The will for enlightenment is born.

 

To do good for all is the will for enlightenment born

In the joyful and benevolent who practice giving,

Who are always determined to benefit all beings,

Who apply the virtues of buddhas and pledge to protect the living.

 

Born is the will for enlightenment, for the weal of all beings,

In those divorced from evil, whose conduct is pure,

Who practice self-control, whose senses are calm and cool,

Who have taken refuge in Buddha, intent on enlightening practice.

 

Born is the will for enlightenment, for the benefit of all,

In those who practice good, vessels of patience and coolness,

Who know the flavor of virtue, have abandoned arrogance and insolence,

With minds detached and pure, calm and cool.

 

Initiating pure action, enduring with firmness and vigor,

Human lions striving for the welfare of all people,

Having conquered afflictions by persistence in virtue,

In this state of mind the will for enlightenment is born.

 

With well-concentrated minds, the darkness of delusion dissolved,

Arrogance gone, they have abandoned defiled paths;

Enjoying the bliss of peace, they have given up attachments to routine life,

In this state of mind the will for enlightenment is born.

 

With minds clear as the sky, with knowledge, abstract and applied,

Having killed the demons, dropped afflictions and conceit,

Abiding in the refuge of Buddha, finding the truth, their desire,

In this state of mind their will for enlightenment is born.

 

Firm in means and intelligence to achieve liberation from the realms of being, Endowed with technique, science, and spiritual power to escape the force of evil,

Seeking the qualities of buddhas, desirous of virtue,

In this state of mind their will for enlightenment is born.

 

Wishing all beings well, having fulfilled the provisions for enlightenment,

With determined minds, they do even what may be difficult,

Enlightening beings never giving up their intent to do good;

In this state of mind their will for enlightenment is born.

 

Thus they should carry out enlightenment practices of multifold virtues;

Vowing to follow Buddha's footsteps, they should attain truth and spiritual power;

Having purified the three realms of being, they should attain the will for enlightenment;

Having purified the three refuges, they should become enlightening beings.

 

This will be reiterated in sum, so listen;

When the will for enlightenment is attained, those who practice giving

Then, having reached Extreme Joy, will become lords of the land."

 

 

(Quite a template, if you ask me...)

[C T]

Thank you, Manitou! _/\_

 

 

 

This is from the same Sutra. I was just reading the passage actually....

 

 

 

Great bodhisattvas have no attachment to Buddha and do not develop attachments;

they have no attachment to the teachings and do not develop attachments; they have

no attachment to lands and do not develop attachments; they have no attachments

to sentient beings and do not develop attachments. They do not see that there are

sentient beings, yet they carry on educational activity, civilizing and teaching ways

of liberation; they do not give up the practices of bodhisattvas with great compassion

and great commitment. Seeing buddhas and hearing their teachings, they act accordingly;

trusting the buddhas they plant roots of goodness, ceaselessly honoring and serving them.

They are able to shake infinite worlds in the ten directions by spiritual powers; their minds are

broad, being equal to the cosmos. They know various explanations of truth, they know how

many sentient beings there are, they know the differences among sentient beings, they know

the birth of suffering, they know the extinction of suffering; while knowing all acts are like reflected

images, they carry out the deeds of bodhisattvas. They sever the root of all subjection to birth.

They carry out practices of bodhisattvas for the sole purpose of saving sentient beings and yet

do not practice anything. Conforming to the essential nature of all buddhas, they develop a mind

like an immense mountain. They know all falsehood and delusion, and enter the door of omniscience.

Their knowledge and wisdom are broad and vast and unshakable, due to the attainment of true enlightenment.

This is the insight of practical knowledge of equally saving all sentient beings in the ocean of birth and death.

 

Synchronicity.

 

 

 

 

Much peace & blessings.

[doc benway]

Thank you both!

[stefos]

Interesting post but problematic!

 

Why?

 

In regards to "enlightenment," Krishnamurti stated that, in regards to REAL Kundalini "awakening" for example, the following:

 

"Absolutely NO sense of the self" and

"When the self is not."

 

Please check it out below:

 

Why do I quote him?

Good question....here's the good answer:

When it comes to enlightenment, we approach it from the sense of "me" "attaining" instead of "no me."

 

"Western esoteric systems" If they are power focused, Tantric systems that actively push siddhi attainment (Some actually make it a point believe it or not!) and Magickal systems and spiritualities of this ilk, engender self seeking power which builds up the ego causing conflict on multiple levels.

 

It's one thing to expand consciousness to "embrace all" but a different matter to flush the self away, as it were.

 

Power, siddhis and even the "wish for enlightenment" are distortions.

 

It's not only Krishnamurti but any teacher who's honest has said "forget power and siddhic attainment(s)."

 

To me, Biblical Christianity which is about selfless love, not the flippant word "love" commonly touted left & right, Krishnamurti, Dzogchen and Advaita Vedanta along with Kashmiri Shaivaism are correct insofar as "self removal" are concerned.

 

We, if we are honest, want power. That's not the point, dropping the self is the point.

 

Stefos

Edited November 9, 2014 by stefos

[Tibetan_Ice]

That guy is so wrong about Raja yoga that perhaps he should blame his ignorance on the scholars from whom he obtained his misinformation. He is a real mouthpiece, isn't he?

 

Got kundalini backwards, doesn't he? Kundalini wipes out the self. It does not require destruction of the little self before it manifests. Case in point, all the kundalini active people with bad experiences while their self is being attacked, subdued and disintegrated.. Ellie Collie, etc etc etc

 

Krishnamurti is a big waste it time. Read about UG Krishnamurti instead.

 

And, any teacher might say to forget about powers and siddhis while learning the beginner states, but any teacher that can't demonstrate any siddhis should not be teaching.

 

I don't know why you keep bringing up non buddhist fakirs in the buddhist forum. It is almost like your behavior stems from a lack of confidence and understanding in all schools and you are seeking someone to tell you the truth. Nobody can do that for you, you have to discover the truth for yourself.

 

Im not really interested in furthering any discussion with you for I find you to be so scattered and lacking in control and perspicacity that you would inevitably waste everyone's time. You can't get there by discussing philosophy, especially crappy philosophy which is not grounded in experience. Let the scholars be, they are only parrots. And, like someone else told you, pick one cake and eat it.

 

And dropping the self is not the point. That is a form of nihilism. The self will drop on its own if only you don't succumb to fear and let it drop when the real experience comes calling.. But dropping the self doesn't necessarily cause the real experience to arise, else everyone who falls asleep would be enlightened.

[Seeker of Wisdom]

...When it comes to enlightenment, we approach it from the sense of "me" "attaining" instead of "no me."

...

It's one thing to expand consciousness to "embrace all" but a different matter to flush the self away, as it were...

I think you're taking no-self in a way that denies individual qualities. The mind is real, the body, memories, consciousness, etc, is all real, but the idea it makes a 'self' is just an idea. Just as the bricks of a house are real, but the idea 'house' is only a conceptual label placed by people.

 

So expanding consciousness doesn't imply strengthening the idea of self, because when the idea of self is gone, that doesn't get rid of consciousness. Consciousness can be expanded without the idea of it being 'me' or 'mine'.

 

Gateless Gatecrashers is a good guide to the basics of no-self - from a direct experience perspective too.

 

You have a point about the sense of individual attainment, but I think that really most of us are cultivating with some idea of making our'selves' enlightened and that's good enough to get us to the point where we can let go of that. It's a practical relative truth for now.

[MooNiNite]

it is in expressing the self that we find the self.

 

Edit: actually better to say "become" the self

Edited November 9, 2014 by MooNiNite

[manitou]

I like the concept of dissolving the self.

 

CT - incredible synchronicity, but not surprising! It almost seems to me that the Sutra is an implantation of some sort - that with all the repetition about the jeweled worlds page after page that there is a reward of sorts for reading it. Almost like a strand of golden hair is being implanted with each repetitive sentence you read. The repetition is beautiful but mind-deadening, and then suddenly you're whisked away to thoughts that are so profound that it takes your breath away. I feel like I'm not reading this Sutra, I'm experiencing this Sutra.

 

Stefos - I'm not sure that kundalini awakening equates to enlightenment? I think that K-awakening is maybe necessary for enlightenment, but I don't think they're the same thing at all. K-awakening seems to be a physical thing that happens to us along the way, for some odd reason. Like the physical body catching up with the spirit body. But becoming K-awakened sure doesn't mean we're There, IMO.

 

As in CT's quote..."Great bodhisattvas have no attachment to Buddha". This makes perfect sense to me - to achieve One Mind we have to step out of the template of the particular path, transcend the form of it.

Edited November 9, 2014 by manitou

[stefos]

That guy is so wrong about Raja yoga that perhaps he should blame his ignorance on the scholars from whom he obtained his misinformation. He is a real mouthpiece, isn't he?

 

Got kundalini backwards, doesn't he? Kundalini wipes out the self. It does not require destruction of the little self before it manifests. Case in point, all the kundalini active people with bad experiences while their self is being attacked, subdued and disintegrated.. Ellie Collie, etc etc etc

 

Krishnamurti is a big waste it time. Read about UG Krishnamurti instead.

 

And, any teacher might say to forget about powers and siddhis while learning the beginner states, but any teacher that can't demonstrate any siddhis should not be teaching.

 

I don't know why you keep bringing up non buddhist fakirs in the buddhist forum. It is almost like your behavior stems from a lack of confidence and understanding in all schools and you are seeking someone to tell you the truth. Nobody can do that for you, you have to discover the truth for yourself.

 

Im not really interested in furthering any discussion with you for I find you to be so scattered and lacking in control and perspicacity that you would inevitably waste everyone's time. You can't get there by discussing philosophy, especially crappy philosophy which is not grounded in experience. Let the scholars be, they are only parrots. And, like someone else told you, pick one cake and eat it.

 

And dropping the self is not the point. That is a form of nihilism. The self will drop on its own if only you don't succumb to fear and let it drop when the real experience comes calling.. But dropping the self doesn't necessarily cause the real experience to arise, else everyone who falls asleep would be enlightened.

 

Hi Tibetan Ice,

 

Have you really read Krishnamurti's dialogues or examined the biographies written about him by ofthers?

I don't think you have or else you would have responded in a more comprehensive way.

 

Also, You are very antagonistic in your communications....I suggest you change your tone sir.

I will not hesitate to communicate to moderators about your attitude of agression.

 

Discreditng Krishnamurti is something one can only do if one has studied and lived "the teachings" which you have not demonstrated to me sufficiently.

 

Finally, just as mentioned to 3bob in the "Hinduism" sub-forum, I can post anything I'd like to as this is not a "pay to post" forum nor is it your particular monopoly and most importantly Krishnamurti had dialogues with both Buddhist scholars and Chogyam Trungpa and others, so this is very relevant to "Buddhism."

 

I will no longer conceded to any person's demands here or anywhere.....PERIOD.

If what I post has relevance, the post and ensuing communication will stay.

 

Stefos

Edited November 9, 2014 by stefos

[stefos]

it is in expressing the self that we find the self.

 

Edit: actually better to say "become" the self

 

Hi MooNiNite,

 

I respectfully disagree.

 

What do you mean by "expressing the self?" How "does that look like?"

 

The Self eliminates the self and that happens when there is no personal "self" not Self (with a capital S).

 

This is what teachers of Advaita Vedanta teach....In Buddhist circles, Shunya is pushed...A state of void is the ultimate.

Other Buddhist schools say "No, Shunya is not the ultimate....Shunya and it's correlate presence or Pure consciousness are."

 

There are many schools of "Buddhism" with different ends or "fruit" in view and they don't all agree.

 

Be well!

Stefos

[Tibetan_Ice]

 

Hi Tibetan Ice,

 

Have you really read Krishnamurti's dialogues or examined the biographies written about him by ofthers?

I don't think you have or else you would have responded in a more comprehensive way.

 

Also, You are very antagonistic in your communications....I suggest you change your tone sir.

I will not hesitate to communicate to moderators about your attitude of agression.

 

Discreditng Krishnamurti is something one can only do if one has studied and lived "the teachings" which you have not demonstrated to me sufficiently.

 

Finally, just as mentioned to 3bob in the "Hinduism" sub-forum, I can post anything I'd like to as this is not a "pay to post" forum nor is it your particular monopoly and most importantly Krishnamurti had dialogues with both Buddhist scholars and Chogyam Trungpa and others, so this is very relevant to "Buddhism."

 

I will no longer conceded to any person's demands here or anywhere.....PERIOD.

If what I post has relevance, the post and ensuing communication will stay.

 

Stefos

From http://weeraperuma.com/krishnamurti.html

 

K urged his listeners to be constantly aware of their thoughts and feelings without in any way condemning or justifying them. The wandering of the mind can be ended by thinking through, and feeling to the end, every thought-feeling. Such awareness involves the avoidance of judging or evaluating one's stream of consciousness. During the 1940s he advocated an effortless and passive awareness. Many persons who experimented on this themselves complained that such a method was not only arduous but also failed to liberate them. Then in 1956 K contradicted himself: he stated that total awareness cannot be maintained all the time. He therefore suggested a minute or two of total awareness followed by a period of relaxation, during which one can observe the operations of one's mind. Awareness is central to K's teachings. Although he insisted upon awareness as the means of transcending the limitations of the mind and arriving at the discovery of Truth (despite his contradictory dictum that 'Truth is a pathless land'), it is doubtful if any of his listeners actually found Liberation. The countless thousands in various countries who listened to K got nowhere. By observing their thought processes for years they found that they were becoming increasingly enmeshed in thought. Instead of their minds becoming dissolved, they realised to their dismay that they were becoming more and more cerebral.

 

Then again you post a post which lumped Christianity, Adaita Vedanta, and Dzogchen all together under the aegis of "self removal" into the same sentence. How ludicrous! And where exactly does Dzogchen teach practices to " remove the self"? And even if you called Dzogchen "Buddhist", there is no little "self" in Buddhism so why would they even have practices to remove it? All he Buddhist teachings say that even if you tried to find the self, you will not find it.

[stefos]

From http://weeraperuma.com/krishnamurti.html

 

Then again you post a post which lumped Christianity, Adaita Vedanta, and Dzogchen all together under the aegis of "self removal" into the same sentence. How ludicrous! And where exactly does Dzogchen teach practices to " remove the self"? And even if you called Dzogchen "Buddhist", there is no little "self" in Buddhism so why would they even have practices to remove it? All he Buddhist teachings say that even if you tried to find the self, you will not find it.

 

If you properly quoted what I said and then asked me what I meant, you would have received a proper answer.

Therefore, you will receive no answer other than "re-read my post and think about what I've particularly posted."

 

Also, In Buddhism there is a "self" it's called the relative "self" called Tibetan Ice, Stefos, John, Bob, etc.

When dealing with Ultimate reality however, that's a different story.

 

Stefos

[MooNiNite]

Hi MooNiNite,

 

I respectfully disagree.

 

What do you mean by "expressing the self?" How "does that look like?"

 

The Self eliminates the self and that happens when there is no personal "self" not Self (with a capital S).

 

This is what teachers of Advaita Vedanta teach....In Buddhist circles, Shunya is pushed...A state of void is the ultimate.

Other Buddhist schools say "No, Shunya is not the ultimate....Shunya and it's correlate presence or Pure consciousness are."

 

There are many schools of "Buddhism" with different ends or "fruit" in view and they don't all agree.

 

Be well!

Stefos

 

expressing the self is like soul purpose, something one does that helps them get in touch with themselves or realize themself. People can express themselves through art, music, biulding, or whatever

[Gerard]

This actually is the hardest part:

 

 

...and careful with intellectualising one's practice.

 

 

 

 

[manitou]

For anyone still following this thread, I just came across another great passage which goes into depth as to the qualities of the enlightened mind. I find it very comprehensive, and a good way to gage where we are on the path.

 

 

"Once great enlightening beings have attained these ten kinds of excellence, they also attain ten kinds of power, cultivating practices in the realm of sentient beings; first is the power of courageous strength, because they tame worldlings; second is the power of energy, because they never backslide; third is the power of nonattachment, because they get rid of defiling obsessions; fourth is the power of silent calm, because they have no disputes about anything; fifth is the power to oppose or conform, because they are free in the midst of all things; sixth is the power of the nature of things, because they attain mastery of all truths; seventh is the power of nonobstruction, because their knowledge and wisdom is immensely vast; eighth is the power of fearlessness, because they can explain all truths; ninth is the power of intellect, because they can hold all truths; tent is the power of revelation, because their knowledge and wisdom is boundless."

[manitou]

Another paragraph I've found that really jumps out at me, contained within the chapter The Ten Superknowledges. It has to do with staying within nonduality:

 

"These great enlightening beings do not grasp conventional truth, do not dwell in absolute truth, do not discriminate phenomena, do not set up words; they accord with the essence of extinction, yet they do not give up their undertakings. Seeing what is true and knowing the principles thereof, they spread clouds of teaching and shower rains of teaching. Though they know the character of reality cannot be verbally expressed, yet by expedient means and endless intellectual power they teach in an orderly fashion according to principles and according to meanings. Because they have mastered the skills of verbal explanation of phenomena and principles, their great kindness and compassion purified, they produce words for all things that are actually beyond words, according to their principles and meanings, without contradiction, explaining that all things arise from conditions. Though they do use words to explain, yet they are not attached to them at all. They explain all things, with endless intellectual power, analyzing, defining, revealing, guiding, causing the nature of all things to be fully revealed, cutting through the web of doubts, causing all to be clarified. Even while they take care of sentient beings, they do not abandon true reality. They do not regress from nonduality, and they are always able to expound the reality of nonobstruction. By means of myriad subtle nuances they adapt to the minds of sentient beings, showering the rain of truth on all according to proper timing."

 

 

 

As I see it, this is what lies at the basis of our character - all of it. It is just a question of realization that it is there, that it is within us. We are the 'enlightening beings', the subject of discussion throughout this great work - it took about half the book for me to realize that, and it hit me like a jolt. This Sutra often refers to such things as 'seeing the Buddhas within every pore of our body', which to me is a reference that the reflection of Buddhahood is contained not only within those who have made great attainment, but also those who remain in duality for the time being. The template is there within us all! The only thing that prevents this from coming to the fore is our own lack of recognition of self and others as to our true being.

 

It continually refers to Buddhas of the past, present, and future - and how the enlightening being is capable of utilizing the knowledge of all three tenses - because Mind is all Here and Now. The right answer, the right direction, the right words....they're there for all of us when we can get ourselves out of the way - when we stop buying into the 'reality of the physicality' and realize that these are only conditions that we draw to ourselves unknowingly, but for a reason: the reason being that this is how the Buddha within is forged - by conditions.

 

I especially like the phrase about not being attached to our own words, even if we have used words for teaching. This is an indication to me that we have no vested interest in the 'rightness or wrongness' of our words and that our egos don't rest on what we think we know and share with others. Again, the mind of The Learner, if you combine a little Zen in here.

 

This Sutra is all so very Buddhist. It is all so very Tao. It is all so very Zen. It is all so very Pure. The read itself is an incredible discipline.

Edited November 24, 2014 by manitou

[MooNiNite]

This actually is the hardest part:

 

 

...and careful with intellectualising one's practice.

 

can you elaborate all that is which you are explaining?

[Simple_Jack]

Look out for Dharmamitra's forthcoming translation of the Avatamsaka Sutra:

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/33430-interdependent-totality-in-buddhadharma/?p=520583

 

Begin forwarded message:

> From: kalavinka <[email protected]>
> Date: February 2, 2014 at 6:53:12 PM PST
> To: Heng Shou <[email protected]>
> Subject: Announcement: The First Ever Complete & Genuine Translation of the Avatamsaka Sutra
>
> New Year’s Kalavinka Press Announcement
>
>
>
> Three First-Ever[1] Translations by Bhikshu Dharmamitra
>
> Completed on Lunar New Year’s Day, 2014:
>
>
>
> The Greatly Expansive Buddha’s Floral Adornment Sutra
>
> Mahāvaipulya Buddha Avataṃsaka Sūtra (Śikṣānanda’s 699 ce. edition).
>
> T279 - 大方廣佛華嚴經 - 實叉難陀譯
>
> (39 chapters in 80 fascicles – 3000 pages)
>
>
>
> The Ten Grounds Sutra
>
> Daśabhūmika Sūtra (Kumārajīva’s circa 400 ce edition.)
>
> T286 -十住經 - 鳩摩羅什譯
>
> (Ten Chapters in 4 fascicles – 275 pages)
>
>
>
> Nagarjuna’s Commentarial Treatise on the Ten Grounds Sutra
>
> Daśabhūmika Vibhāṣā Śāstra
>
> T1521 - 十住毘婆沙論 -鳩摩羅什譯
>
> (35 chapters in 17 fascicles – 700 pages.)
>
>
>
> The Avatamsaka Sutra translation was finished
>
> At 12:01 am, January 31st, Lunar New Year’s Day, 2014,
>
> At West Seattle’s Kalavinka Translation Aranya,
>
> by Bhikshu Dharmamitra*, a.k.a. Bhikshu Heng Shou (釋恆授).
>
>
>
> Kalavinka Press is planning to publish all 3 of these texts in the Fall, 2014.
>
> (BDK-Numata will also issue an edition of Dharmamitra’s translation of the Avataṃsaka Sutra.)
>
>
>
> Although this three-text project was begun in 2004 at Turtle Mountain’s Prajna Translation Aranya, it was interrupted by publication of ten other books, a liver cancer operation, a liver transplant, etc., only to be begun again, 6 months post-transplant, in late 2010.
>
>
>
> Bhikshu Dharmamitra* is one of very first American disciples of the late Ven. Master Hsuan Hua (since 1968).
>
> He was also one of the group of three American monks who were the very first Americans to ever take full bhikshu ordination in the Chinese Buddhist tradition (Hai Hui Monastery, Chilung, Taiwan, Nov., 1969). He is the author of approximately 25 translations of Chinese Buddhist Canonical Texts, most of which originated from Sanskrit.
>
> [1] Although Thomas Cleary claims to have translated the Avatamsaka Sutra, he did not in fact do so.(For immense parts of the text, Cleary cuts out the Avataṃsaka text, grafts in other texts, and otherwise violates in a host of ways the sanctity of the Śikṣānanda translation from Sanskrit.)
>
> --
> Bhikshu Dharmamitra
> (a.k.a. Rev. Heng Shou - 釋恆授, Michael Kane)
> Translator & Publisher of Classic Indian & Chinese Buddhist Texts
> Kalavinka Press (Kalavinkapress.org)
> 8603 39th Ave SW, Seattle, WA 98136
> [email protected]; Office: 206-932-1155 / Cell:

[manitou]

LOL - SimpleJack - I think the 1600 page translation is just fine. 3000 pages of descriptions of jeweled budda-lands is more than I care to delve into.

 

Much of the Sutra, as translated by Cleary, does describe incredible visions of reflected light, reflections of Buddhas and enlightened ones appearing in past, present, and future - and how an enlightening one (as he translates it) will have his mind so clear that it encompasses all three of these tenses. As I mentioned previously in this thread, it is mind-numbing to read this - however the payoff is that the next chapter will be words of such incredible wisdom that it resonates down to the bottom of your soul. It is truly a discipline to stick with this book - and yet, strangely enough, I feel that a template of sorts is being formed within my brain - in particular, maybe because of the repetition and description.

 

But the payoff is huge, or at least in my case. If you feel that a longer translation will be more accurate, I'm not sure that more words are necessarily going to get to the heart of the matter any better than the 1600 pages. I'm guessing that maybe you haven't read this Sutra translated by Cleary? My guess is that if you did, you too would experience a transformation of sorts, if you have the patience and will to stick with it.

 

I've never read a Buddhist text before. As far as I can see, as to my own experience, any path will ultimately get up into the metaphysics when the boundaries of the religion are shed. This wonderful Sutra is no different; it delves completely into the metaphysics of the Logos, the way things work. The dynamics of a Buddha's understanding are shown in this Sutra - and the interesting thing is that because it goes so much into the inner mind of a Buddha, we can see our own progress or lack thereof.That, to me, is the essence of this Sutra - and if one has cultivated and prepared ones' self sufficiently and done one's best to remove inner distortions, this Sutra will graduate you to a higher level of enlightenment.

 

Personally, I'm not real concerned about the manner in which Cleary assembled this Sutra. All I know is that I've read hundreds of metaphysical books by Masters of all traditions, and this one goes to the same place - only in a tremendously different way. It is melodic, it is beautiful, and when the inner soul of the Buddha is exposed you will see yourself there to some degree. We will all see ourselves there to some degree. It is encouraging! You will recognize yourself! And you will see how far you have yet to go (not speaking to you specifically - but everyone).

 

We are enlightened when we SELF REALIZE that we are enlightened. There is no enlightenment that a master can give you - at the terminal end, it is a journey of self discovery to find the Jewel that sits at the bottom of our psyche.

 

When I first started reading the Sutra, I was looking at the Buddha descriptions and the Buddha-land descriptions as something outside of myself. Midway through the Sutra, the quantum shift occurred and I realized that it was Me...ME!...that it was talking about. There are Buddhas everywhere; it is within all of us. It's just that 99.9999% of the citizens of the world are not in awareness of it.

 

This, to me, is the same as the I Am consciousness, which I often talk about. All I know is that the Sutra drove it home inside my heart in a more personal way than any other tome or book I have read. I'm a little more than half way through it now, and I'm hoping my head doesn't explode in the second half. I can't wait, each day, to have an hour or two to sit and read this magical Sutra.

 

Why don't you do the 3,000 page one and see if there isn't a shift inside you upon reading it? Then come back to this thread and let us know! Perhaps twice as many words will be two times better.

[Simple_Jack]

Translation of Chengguan's (4th Patriarch of Huayan sect: http://thetaobums.com/topic/33430-interdependent-totality-in-buddhadharma/) commentaries on the Avatamsaka Sutra: http://books.google....=gbs_navlinks_s

Edited November 30, 2014 by Simple_Jack

[lifeforce]

Another paragraph I've found that really jumps out at me, contained within the chapter The Ten Superknowledges. It has to do with staying within nonduality:

 

"These great enlightening beings do not grasp conventional truth, do not dwell in absolute truth, do not discriminate phenomena, do not set up words; they accord with the essence of extinction, yet they do not give up their undertakings. Seeing what is true and knowing the principles thereof, they spread clouds of teaching and shower rains of teaching. Though they know the character of reality cannot be verbally expressed, yet by expedient means and endless intellectual power they teach in an orderly fashion according to principles and according to meanings. Because they have mastered the skills of verbal explanation of phenomena and principles, their great kindness and compassion purified, they produce words for all things that are actually beyond words, according to their principles and meanings, without contradiction, explaining that all things arise from conditions. Though they do use words to explain, yet they are not attached to them at all. They explain all things, with endless intellectual power, analyzing, defining, revealing, guiding, causing the nature of all things to be fully revealed, cutting through the web of doubts, causing all to be clarified. Even while they take care of sentient beings, they do not abandon true reality. They do not regress from nonduality, and they are always able to expound the reality of nonobstruction. By means of myriad subtle nuances they adapt to the minds of sentient beings, showering the rain of truth on all according to proper timing."

 

 

 

As I see it, this is what lies at the basis of our character - all of it. It is just a question of realization that it is there, that it is within us. We are the 'enlightening beings', the subject of discussion throughout this great work - it took about half the book for me to realize that, and it hit me like a jolt. This Sutra often refers to such things as 'seeing the Buddhas within every pore of our body', which to me is a reference that the reflection of Buddhahood is contained not only within those who have made great attainment, but also those who remain in duality for the time being. The template is there within us all! The only thing that prevents this from coming to the fore is our own lack of recognition of self and others as to our true being.

 

It continually refers to Buddhas of the past, present, and future - and how the enlightening being is capable of utilizing the knowledge of all three tenses - because Mind is all Here and Now. The right answer, the right direction, the right words....they're there for all of us when we can get ourselves out of the way - when we stop buying into the 'reality of the physicality' and realize that these are only conditions that we draw to ourselves unknowingly, but for a reason: the reason being that this is how the Buddha within is forged - by conditions.

 

I especially like the phrase about not being attached to our own words, even if we have used words for teaching. This is an indication to me that we have no vested interest in the 'rightness or wrongness' of our words and that our egos don't rest on what we think we know and share with others. Again, the mind of The Learner, if you combine a little Zen in here.

 

This Sutra is all so very Buddhist. It is all so very Tao. It is all so very Zen. It is all so very Pure. The read itself is an incredible discipline.

 

Hi manitou.

I came across this post :

http://thetaobums.com/topic/27213-complete-reality-section/?p=431999

which may be relevant to your study of the Avatamsaka.

On reading your posts, as well as those by adept, deci belle etc etc, I think I might have to delve into this sutra.