We are ALL inherently evil...

[Taomeow]

People are not evil, but the overlords -- I'm not sure they're people, and I'm sure they're evil. Here's two random quotes I came across just the other day:

 

"A man always has two reasons for the things he does -- a good one and the real one." -- J.P. Morgan

 

"I don't care so much for a fortune... as I do for getting ahead of the other fellow." -- Thomas Edison

 

Edison, incidentally, was the worst kind of evil. He set out to prove that the competition's AC was inferior to his DC by launching a vast smear campaign, in the course of which he had his agents hire kids to catch and bring to him cats and dogs from the neighborhoods around the competitor's (Westinghouse) facilities, and personally tortured and electrocuted them with AC to prove its dangers. Just imagine what you have to be to do something like that -- and, yes, not even for a fortune, just for "getting ahead of the other fellow..."

[silent thunder]

Edison was a coarse, belligerent, conniving thief.

Adding animal torture to his list really takes it over the edge.

 

Head shakingly sad.

[Brian]

Not just cats & dogs. Edison also electrocuted livestock, zoo animals, etc.

[z00se]

First let me say that i actually believe it is easier for me to believe that i am inherently good and i only need to let go of my bad traits to show my true self. Letting go to me is easier than working hard to be good. However i saw merit in what the Christian speaker said.

I did intionally leave out a part of his speach where he said "i don't mean doing terrible things in society like rape, etc" although how could one exclude such possibilities, he didn't attempt to make any rational explanation as to why these things would be excluded from an individuals acceptance of their inherit evilness. I did also think there was a wide acceptance of his speel to those who were present by the cheering, and i did think to myself this could be dangerous whereby the leader could manipulate the followers into doing something immoral and leading them to believe that they would be free from any remorse or be held accountable for that sin by others, which we all know is not true or they would never have divised the 10 commandments.

 

Yes, one will hear stuff like that on Christian radio programs. And we are born in sin too.

 

Please leave me out of those baskets, Okay?

 

You, Me, the differences you see and denial of your acceptance of the speach could be the very unholiness or fall from our unity that the speaker is talking about. Perhaps you are right, yet the speaker is very clever in the fact that he has a valid argument for convincing the crowd that people like you are wrong, after all he backed up his view, very cleverly i might add, by using some examples from the bible that i didn't type out. It illustrates to me the power of knowledge of, and ability of selecting excripts from the bible to validate your own intentions. As soon as accepted holy words have been committed to paper, even the i ching, they become a tool that can be used to gradually manipulate believers into doing anothers bidding.

 

No we are good not evil.

The evil is a cause of the original split which results in rage and ultimately violence.

Some Christians then project their original self as God and seek externally for this God even though he cannot be found.

 

But they are god.... God is EVERYTHING. We need these people. People who think they are evil can help to balance the good people out. There could be such a thing as too much good, although it is impossible in reality where things always tend to balance out.

[z00se]

If your going to view yourself as 'something' apart then you've already lost your sense of Unity. To me, this is closer to the meaning of having lost innocence/paradise; Sin.

 

I have heard other religious folks explain its original meaning as "missing the bulls-eye" and I think my point is similar; not in the center of Unity.

 

The easy way that I resolved this (and I was mixed up in this conservative realm for a long time) is to consider two living things:

1. Babies. Clearly this is as close to unity and naturalness as it gets... are they evil ? NO.

 

So why do we even entertain the idea of evil... due to our later existence, not our beginnings...

 

2. Animals. Clearly, animals have a loving side and care for their own but they are much more aware of the harsh realities of survival and the need to 'eat or be eaten'. They can kill without hesitation. Why are they considered natural and not considered evil ?

 

Thus, man seems to focus so much on himself and then seek some meaning in life and find a purpose... etc... Not so for babies and animals. They remain centered.

 

I would say man's awareness of his existence (ie: which can border infatuation with self) bolstered by the ability to think, plan, muse, and plot give us a spectrum of peaceful civility to lunacy. And because of this we want to call that evil?

 

We're just one of ten thousand in this playground.

 

Our advantage is that if we become apart or stray from being centered, we have the ability to return/transcend/transform from that place.

 

I think animals view themselves as something larger, as part of god. They eat and are eaten. They are doing gods will by eating and killing other animals. We are probably doing gods will by eating processed garbage to give ourselves cancer, so we reduce the number of the most overpopulated species. It's all just perspective.

 

There are clever animals like monkeys, dolphins and some birds. They can plan and plot too. Sometimes i don't think we're as clever as we think we are, or maybe clever in some ways but not in others. Perhaps animals look at us and think we are stupid. Lack of understanding, just like we think animals do silly things, but it's only because we don't understand why.

 

I think other animals can transcend too, perhaps even easier than us.

 

 

If we can fall short of our highest ideals at times, then it's true that we are all inherently evil.

 

If we can rise above our destructive tendencies at times, for the greater good/our ideals, and if we take pleasure in this transmutation, then it's true that we all have an inherent goodness/Buddha nature.

 

How can it be true that we're both inherently good and inherently evil?

 

This contemplation reminds me of a passage from James in the Bible:

 

 

The popular Native American idea of the "two wolves" put it in a way that's less koan-like, and perhaps easier to put into practice:

 

 

Evidence abounds in our world of either extreme point of view being equally true...that we're evil, or that we're good. Which one do we feed? That is our "cultivation".

 

This is exactly the point i was trying to make with my original post.

 

Sorry for the several small posts, i am on a windows pc and i keep loosing the stuff i type. You honestly can't go past ubuntu.

[z00se]

Thank you !

 

I was going to point out some MAJOR flaws in the first post ... but you saved me the trouble.

 

 

But still ... all of us ... inherently evil ?

 

Hey Christians ... make a up term ... apply a definition ... declare I am it ... now offer to 'save me' ...

 

my honest response to that is against the rules here ...

 

Speak for and about yourself Christian radio broadcaster and z00se !

 

Dont try to include me and everyone else in your perversions, just so you feel better about having them.

 

- We are all born in sin and intrinsically bad ....

 

Haha That's not the way i took the speach, as a request for more followers, or that i needed to be saved by christ. Rather just another opinion that i hadn't considered before that would be helpful within my own cultivation and understanding. Thats why i decided to share it here.

 

You never seem to like my posts, when you post replies it seems as if i've made you angry somehow. Perhaps i'm wrong but thats how it comes accross. I like reading you're replies, and i know it takes time to write them. I didn't mean to include everyone in my perversions, that wasn't my intent at all. I didn't even intend to include myself in that

[Nungali]

I actually like that and I should be ashamed of myself for feeling that way.

 

" I come not to bring peace, but a sword."

 

 

[Nungali]

Haha That's not the way i took the speach, as a request for more followers, or that i needed to be saved by christ. Rather just another opinion that i hadn't considered before that would be helpful within my own cultivation and understanding. Thats why i decided to share it here.

 

You never seem to like my posts, when you post replies it seems as if i've made you angry somehow. Perhaps i'm wrong but thats how it comes accross. I like reading you're replies, and i know it takes time to write them. I didn't mean to include everyone in my perversions, that wasn't my intent at all. I didn't even intend to include myself in that

 

 

Moi ! Not like you ? Moi ??? Evil ??

 

Naaah ... but dont piss me off or I pull your head off and eat out the inside of your body and leave the flaccid skin in your armchair for your friends to find.

 

 

 

 

Content dear z00se ... its the content .

 

What that guy said ... I will attack ... whoever waves the red flag might get a scratch while I am shredding it .

Edited November 11, 2014 by Nungali

[z00se]

....think of the topic as more of a newspaper headline designed to stimulate conversation. Don't let yourself get reeled in by it.

[Nungali]

All right then .

 

 

 

[z00se]

Mmm little doggys like that get put down in my country. Ill leave it at that for the off topic chatter

[iain]

Not so off topic to my mind; Please let me explain:

That dog has been genetically modified by humans, over numerous generations; to be a fighting breed. Humans taking the role of probability from the course of natural selection; we are cleaver genetic engineers playing the probable God, like children with arms.

This situation raises two questions in my mind; firstly, why would you kiss a chainsaw; secondly, what do we teach at school?

Ignorance is dangerous; to be ignorant of your own ignorance; even more so. To call that evil, well ...

I think that enough has been said.

[Marblehead]

You, Me, the differences you see and denial of your acceptance of the speach could be the very unholiness or fall from our unity that the speaker is talking about. Perhaps you are right, yet the speaker is very clever in the fact that he has a valid argument for convincing the crowd that people like you are wrong, after all he backed up his view, very cleverly i might add, by using some examples from the bible that i didn't type out. It illustrates to me the power of knowledge of, and ability of selecting excripts from the bible to validate your own intentions. As soon as accepted holy words have been committed to paper, even the i ching, they become a tool that can be used to gradually manipulate believers into doing anothers bidding.

Yep. It is very easy to discredit me if one picks up the Christian Bible and starts selectively quoting from it. That is, until I have had the opportunity to point out the contradictions of what has been quoted either from the Bible itself or examples from reality.

 

I do not claim I am right. But I am right based upon my observations and considerations of what I have observed.

[Marblehead]

" I come not to bring peace, but a sword."

Some feel they need fight for what they believe. (I did and will again if need be.)

[Marblehead]

Ignorance is dangerous; to be ignorant of your own ignorance; even more so. To call that evil, well ...

 

Lao Tzu said something very similar to that except he didn't call it evil, he called it a great flaw.

[Nungali]

Mmm little doggys like that get put down in my country. Ill leave it at that for the off topic chatter

 

In my country people train dogs to round up sheep ... run around all day barking, chasing the 4WD ,,, jumping onto the back of motorbike and bouncing along very capable ... and breed them and sell them to women, who sit with them outside coffee shops with their kid and complain that the dog is a nuisance (in the middle of town) because he tries to run around and bark at stuff.

 

Obviously that dog was born with inherent evil ... we need to send him off to a good Christian school to have it all explained to him.

[Nungali]

Not so off topic to my mind; Please let me explain:

 

That dog has been genetically modified by humans, over numerous generations; to be a fighting breed. Humans taking the role of probability from the course of natural selection; we are cleaver genetic engineers playing the probable God, like children with arms.

 

This situation raises two questions in my mind; firstly, why would you kiss a chainsaw; secondly, what do we teach at school?

 

Ignorance is dangerous; to be ignorant of your own ignorance; even more so. To call that evil, well ...

 

I think that enough has been said.

 

 

 

 

 

I am beginning to suspect that one or two here might 'get me' ....

[z00se]

I get that sometimes force is necessary, that if you play with fire you shouldn't complain if you get burnt. I suspect you are talking about something else entirely, but can you please try to explain it in terms of this topic? Are you talking about cultural conditioning in relation to definitions of good and evil? Or genetic prepositioning changing or twisting the relativity of perception or actions of good and evil? This is something i haven't considered, but i don't understand how solo practice of Christianity would be any worse than solo practice of any other practice.

[Marblehead]

I do recall that B F Skinner did a lot of work in this area. It's called Behavior Modification. It really doesn't work as well as suggested though.

[iain]

Hello z00se

I get that sometimes force is necessary, that if you play with fire you shouldn't complain if you get burnt. I suspect you are talking about something else entirely, but can you please try to explain it in terms of this topic? Are you talking about cultural conditioning in relation to definitions of good and evil? Or genetic prepositioning changing or twisting the relativity of perception or actions of good and evil? This is something i haven't considered, but i don't understand how solo practice of Christianity would be any worse than solo practice of any other practice.

 

Good and evil as black and white are cultural conditioning, neuro epigenetic.
This is why when Christians experience altered states of conciousness; they believe that they are possessed. Rather than growing up; they go round and round in circles. Thus allowing the propagation of demonic "problems"; The Church has thrived on this for a 1000 years (West Europe); I can not speak about the orthodox church.

How can you detach from that, to practise alone?

[Aaron]

When you learn that evil is subjective, then you learn that there really is nothing evil or good, but what we decide is so. If you really believe we are all inherently evil, then perhaps it's something inside you that's causing you to see the world this way, rather than the world actually being as you see it.

 

Aaron

[Nungali]

I get that sometimes force is necessary, that if you play with fire you shouldn't complain if you get burnt. I suspect you are talking about something else entirely, but can you please try to explain it in terms of this topic? Are you talking about cultural conditioning in relation to definitions of good and evil? Or genetic prepositioning changing or twisting the relativity of perception or actions of good and evil? This is something i haven't considered, but i don't understand how solo practice of Christianity would be any worse than solo practice of any other practice.

 

really ? ???????????? You dont see inherent messages at the base of certain 'philosophies' as damaging to the individual and development ????

 

You cant understand how brining up a kid to practice a system that says he was born bad (even as a tiny baby) and needs saving or he will suffer an eternity of torture because that is the way God made it to be ... and that is right and just ?

 

I heard the little kids here talking about weird shit ... I asked them what it was and they said they were talking about whether they believe d in hell or not . I asked where these ideas came from came from

 

"Nana Peterson" they said ... "she teaches us scripture at school." (a state school mind you, an infant school - little kids! )

 

"Your grandmother teaches scripture at school ?"

 

"No ... she just said to call her Nana."

 

- dear sweet old lady, 'call me Nana', here have a sweet ... now would you like to hear a story?

 

"Yes please Nana ."

 

Okay ... now. you kids realise you will roast in hell for eternity if you arent good ... dont you ? "

 

 

Lovely !

 

 

I told their parents and they freaked!

 

 

They didnt even know it was happening or that 'scripture teachers' had wormed their way into the school.

 

Sorry ... but this is just sick !

 

Edited November 12, 2014 by Nungali

[Marblehead]

Sorry ... but this is just sick !

I agree and I'm not sorry for agreeing with you.

[silent thunder]

I can understand believing what my Mother said about god and christianity and what culture crammed down my unconscious gullet to a point. But upon reaching the age of reason, it was absolutely a forgone conclusion that I would utterly reject the religion I was raised under.

 

stupifying to me that either of the big two have the following they do...

[Marblehead]

But you can't be part of the herd if you don't follow the shepherd without question.