DharmaWheel, pressure between the eyebrows, bad advice

[Infinity]

Hi all thought I would add my pennies worth in here.

I don't have in depth knowledge about Buddhism or other energy traditions but have had experiences with pressure with the centre of the head which I have shared previously in other threads on this forum.

My approach has been for the most part up until a few years ago 'mental' in that it was a philosophical rational understanding that my view, my description of the world was only my view and not real and if I stopped thinking I would 'see' or be reality.

So years ago now I decided to stop the commentator or stop the world as Carlos Casteneda's Don Juan would say.

My practice at the time was a bit of Hatha yoga and also a bit of belly breathing, making a chi ball and then pushing it in the dan tian but mostly being constantly aware to stop thoughts to stop painting the world with a description and go beyond and ‘see’ reality and when I say constantly I mean that I was being super vigilant at every waking moment.

Anyway as I practiced gradually I became aware of energy in my body which became stronger. I for the most part ignored this as my goal was to stop the world and see reality. Anyway the energy became more intense and sexual which with an iron will I ignored and it built up and turned into waves of full body bliss which I was very aware of and enjoyed but still maintained my intent on ending the commentators reign and going beyond my world description. I focused and focused on not thinking and it seemed all my cells were vibrating and vibrating high and higher until I felt this pressure in my forehead. When I focused on this point it appeared as though 'i' vibrated of the scale to infinity as I heard a loud cracking noise and my forehead cracked open. It opened up from the front to the back kind of like the dome on a large telescope opens. As this happened it felt I was sinking into the bed and I became just consciousness looking through the perspective of my eyes without the feeling of a body. The commentator was silent and I felt no bliss as I had no awareness of a physical body. I just stayed there for as long as I could with no mental movement just being aware not sure how long it lasted not super long I don't think and eventually I came back to 'normal'.

My forehead opened up on three successive nights but I knew now my mother was worrying about me and wondering what I was doing in my room for such long periods so I felt I could not stay at the house and do such intense practice as my mother would never understand what I was doing and I as I did not want to join any religious organisation as I like my freedom I had to get out and get a job.

During this period at times I also felt strongly I was floating out of my body and could open books at pages I wanted by just willing it and new things directly. These things and others I did not focus on.

I had read previously that if I raised the kundalini to the top I would be free. Still not sure if I raised my kundalini but certainly reached the goal of no thought and had reached the end of my then understanding and box of tricks. For what it's worth I think our goals or intent are very important to outcomes, that's pretty obvious to most.

All respect to Dawg as his approach seems very rational to me. He talks about the subconscious mind being in the forehead, the 6th chakra does he not? Maybe that pressure is this centre being energised / cleansed?

Dawgs path notes here for those that don't know, I very much like his rational, pragmatic and direct approach:

http://thetaobums.com/topic/30012-a-path-to-enlightenment/page-7#entry597938

My personal experience with pressure between the eyebrows is that it gets too intense to continue any practice... and even after you let it go, and stop it... a single thought brings the pressure back. In a very recent connection, the pressure was so strong and painful I just dropped out.

 

It tends to feel like a blockage trying to open... alike blowing up a balloon which will eventually open (explode).

 

To be clear I am not advocating focussing on the forehead centres this was just sharing my experience I am also not advocating not focussing on them.

 

Years after my above experience I was meditating intensely again and the pressure of my tongue on my top pallet and the pressure in my forehead was so much that I had fear something could be damaged and I stopped. When my head opened up before I did not care if I lived or died but also because I was so energetic it seemed to open quickly and naturally!

 

Also I have inklings of what this is and what was possible but until I validate it again and experiment I am not really that much wiser because of it. Still lost in infinity going round and round in thought! Wordz wordz absurdz absurdz.

 

Anyway thats some of my experience with the pressure in the head and hope it may be of some use to somebody.

Peter S

[Tibetan_Ice]

Hi, this thread is about pressure between the eyebrows.

If you wish to discuss something other than the topic, please start a new thread.

[allinone]

it can be a disorder of wind. Like pointed out in the original post.

beginner does not know how to fix it and no patience or will to deal with the problem, obviously then its good to see a specialist.

 

by the way developing your third eye is an illusion.

[Wells]

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Edited February 11, 2015 by ZOOM

[ralis]

My five cent concerning Dzogchen & third eye training:

 

According to the book "The practice of Thögal" by Khenpo Tsultrim Gyamtso Rinpoche, pages 72/73,

Yangti practice begins with looking back into your skull from an imagined third eye between your eyebrows.

As Yangti is allegedly the highest practice in Dzogchen,

it can be said that third eye practice is the highest method in Dzogchen.

 

 

Exactly! That area is where the central channel and two side channels conjunct, which is referred to in Yantra yoga as well as the text you just mentioned as well as many other references.

Edited January 2, 2015 by ralis

[Tibetan_Ice]

My five cent concerning Dzogchen & third eye training:

 

According to the book "The practice of Thögal" by Khenpo Tsultrim Gyamtso Rinpoche, pages 72/73,

Yangti practice begins with looking back into your skull from an imagined third eye between your eyebrows.

As Yangti is allegedly the highest practice in Dzogchen,

it can be said that third eye practice is the highest method in Dzogchen.

 

Hi Zoom, is that book for sale somewhere?

[ralis]

I was just looking at the 'Crystal Cave' text which delves into this. Does anyone else have it?

[allinone]

You are behaving in a similar manner as many Buddhists who have nothing to add except fundamentalist blather.

 

sorry

Edited January 4, 2015 by allinone

[allinone]

i like what infinity said.

[Simple_Jack]

I came across this site today and noticed that there were many references to pressure between the eyebrows as relates to kundalini in the various posts.

 

http://anmolmehta.com/blog/2008/01/03/kundalini-awakening-symptoms/?cp=1

 

you would think that Malcolm would know all this stuff, like Heart drops of Dharmakaya, the drops, the blazing, the central channel, tummo etc.. After all, he is supposed to be a tibetan doctor.

 

He is also trained in Samkhya, the 8-limbed system of yoga (i.e. Yoga Sutras of Patanjali), and Ayurveda, so it's reasonable to say that he might know something about nadis, prana, etc. "Pressure between the eyes" doesn't necessarily indicate anything significant. Alternatively, pressure between the eyebrows could be the opening of the conception channel/ren mai or specifically the "tian mu" and "yin tang" acupoints according to the Chinese system (not saying it is just throwing that out there).

 

I have never found mention of it in any Tibetan text. Although, Lama Rinchen Phuntsok did verify that i had a Kundalini experience. He must be the most knowledgeable Lama around and I believe he has memorized the entire corpus of Tibetan knowledge.

 

http://dongakcholing.org/LamaRinchen.html

 

The problem with any Tibetan text in my experience is the translations/commentaries are not in accordance with any Indian Sanskrit texts. Words are intentionally spelled and pronounced differently. E,g. Swaha (Sanskrit), Svaha (Tibetan). Tibetans have an extreme dislike for most anything Indian or at least in my experience with them. I asked a Lama who is the main Kagyu teacher at the Santa Fe center if he was putting ghee on his rice and he immediately responded; "that's Hindu" and changed the subject.

 

Kundalini and chandali (aka. tummo) are synonymous in the Upanishads. Swaha and svaha (Skt.) are the other way around. It's an adaptation of Sanskrit words to Tibetan phonetics and It's the same when rendering Sanskrit into Chinese, Japanese, etc. Vajrayana is Buddhism, as it existed in India approximately through the 7th and 13th centuries, before its decline and eventual disappearance. AFAIK, they use ghee in making tor***: I know because I've seen it with my own eyes when they were making them.

 

P.S. I'm not a scholar: just some person posting on the internet who's learned some stuff through exposure to sadhanas, etc.

[ralis]

He is also trained in Samkhya, the 8-limbed system of yoga (i.e. Yoga Sutras of Patanjali), and Ayurveda, so it's reasonable to say that he might know something about nadis, prana, etc. "Pressure between the eyes" doesn't necessarily indicate anything significant. Alternatively, pressure between the eyebrows could be the opening of the conception channel/ren mai or specifically the "tian mu" and "yin tang" acupoints according to the Chinese system (not saying it is just throwing that out there).

 

Even if I focus behind the eyes in the 'Crystal Cave' area, the pressure still exists. Even more intensely so which spreads to my entire being. The solar plexus has a similar quality, but different than the 'Crystal Cave'. The solar plexus is a more localized feeling.

 

This is not exclusive to one tradition, but from my studies is cross cultural.

[Simple_Jack]

Even if I focus behind the eyes in the 'Crystal Cave' area, the pressure still exists. Even more intensely so which spreads to my entire being. The solar plexus has a similar quality, but different than the 'Crystal Cave'. The solar plexus is a more localized feeling.

 

This is not exclusive to one tradition, but from my studies is cross cultural.

 

Cool. I don't think anyone said that it wasn't a cross cultural phenomenon.

[ralis]

Cool. I don't think anyone said that it wasn't a cross cultural phenomenon.

 

There are some that post here that don't agree.

[Simple_Jack]

Even if I focus behind the eyes in the 'Crystal Cave' area, the pressure still exists. Even more intensely so which spreads to my entire being. The solar plexus has a similar quality, but different than the 'Crystal Cave'. The solar plexus is a more localized feeling.

 

This is not exclusive to one tradition, but from my studies is cross cultural.

 

Are you familiar with the bliss, clarity, non-thought schema? Have you tried looking at experiences during shamatha in terms of this?

[ralis]

Are you familiar with the bliss, clarity, non-thought schema? Have you tried looking at experiences during shamatha in terms of this?

 

The former is yes. The latter is yes. To be quite honest, the above has always been natural for me. Sustaining it is my present work.

Edited January 2, 2015 by ralis

[ralis]

I was reading a little of Harish Johari's book http://www.amazon.com/Chakras-Centers-Transformation-Harish-Johari-ebook/dp/B00462RVFA/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1420224553&sr=1-1&keywords=harish+johari he indicates the 'Crystal Cave' is above the third eye and below the crown. Must be the source of the kati channel?

Edited January 2, 2015 by ralis

[Tibetan_Ice]

I was reading a little of Harish Johari's book http://www.amazon.com/Chakras-Centers-Transformation-Harish-Johari-ebook/dp/B00462RVFA/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1420224553&sr=1-1&keywords=harish+johari he indicates the 'Crystal Cave' is above the third eye and below the crown. Must be the source of the kati channel?

I don't think so. The source of the kati channel is the heart. There is a pool of awareness in the heart. It comes out of the eyes and resembles a gush of water (the first time it happened to me). The channel is said to start at the heart, go up the central channel, split and curve around the inside of the head around the ears, and then go to each eye. When the left bifurcated kati channel is clear, you see a moon on the left. When the right one is clear, you see a sun on the right. It is funny, but in the Choying Dzod, they mention the moon and sun a few times...

 

Naturally resting as the expanse of the sky of reality itself,

the sun and moon of clear light shines forth.

 

...

 

Enlightened mind is naturally, primordially pure. Within reality itself,

there is no sending off or leaving be, no coming or going,

there is no accomplishment by making effort. Naturally resting as the expanse of

the sky of reality itself,

the sun and moon of clear light

shines forth.

 

 

http://www.mahamudracenter.org/draftstudyguidetolongchenrabjammeditations.pdf

 

I don't believe the sun and the moon are metaphors because I have seen them during gazing practice, but not both at the same time. It is an interesting phenomenon because I recall a kundalini guru telling about the moon and the sun, and that if you can see both at the same time and then merge the two, you can stop time. Fact or fiction?

Edited January 2, 2015 by Tibetan_Ice

[ralis]

I don't think so. The source of the kati channel is the heart. There is a pool of awareness in the heart. It comes out of the eyes and resembles a gush of water (the first time it happened to me). The channel is said to start at the heart, go up the central channel, split and curve around the inside of the head around the ears, and then go to each eye. When the left bifurcated channel is clear, you see a moon on the left. When the right one is clear, you see a sun on the right. It is funny, but in the Choying Dzod, they mention the moon and sun a few times...

 

http://www.mahamudracenter.org/draftstudyguidetolongchenrabjammeditations.pdf

 

I don't believe the sun and the moon are metaphors because I have seen them during gazing practice, but not both at the same time.

 

The anatomical references may not correspond exactly to the maps of the channels. I think what is happening is a bypassing of the normal survival filters built into the brain that are a function of the process of evolution.

[Wells]

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Edited February 11, 2015 by ZOOM

[ralis]

http://www.goldenelixir.com/jindan/dantian.html

 

Do you have any of his books? I have considered purchasing one through Amazon.

[Wells]

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Edited February 11, 2015 by ZOOM

[Wells]

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Edited February 11, 2015 by ZOOM

[Wells]

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Edited February 11, 2015 by ZOOM

[Tibetan_Ice]

 

 

 

So possibly,

ultimately there has to be made a connection from the eyes to the point between the eyebrows,

either by the physical action of "looking at the (upper) end of the nose"

or by concentrating at all "three eyes" at the same time

or both,

so that the "energy of primordial wisdom"

streams from the kati channel through the eyes not out but back in into the central channel / into the third eye/ into the upper tantien.

You know, this is right on in so many ways. In a way, it is the theory behind sambhavi, the reason why so many traditions talk about rolling the eyes upwards. In the quotes I have presented, the Buddhists are saying that the brow area separates out the clear light.

 

The other aspect is that of touching the tip of the tongue on the upper soft palate, or at various locations of the upper palette. When I press the tip of the tongue into the top front of the palette, not only does it feel electrical and tingly, but it produces a definite magnetic pressure from the brow towards the tip of the tongue. When I move the tongue further back it changes the angle of the magnetic pull. If you get the angle just right, you hit a point behind the brow which is very ecstatic. If you pull the magnetic flow downwards by relaxing deeply and letting go (as if you were going to fall asleep), your consciousness will dissolve into the central channel and it feels like you are going to pass out. But if you are not prepared it will make you feel sick if you do it too quickly. Yes, sambhavi and kechari combined are two very powerful practices.

Edited January 3, 2015 by Tibetan_Ice

[Tibetan_Ice]

 

Are you familiar with the bliss, clarity, non-thought schema? Have you tried looking at experiences during shamatha in terms of this?

You know, SJ, that is a strange question to me. In shamatha, if there is any movement of mind you are no longer in shamatha, therefore there is no way to assess anything "during shamatha" as you have asked. If you are seeking insight, then that would be vipassana, wouldn't it?