Simple_Jack Posted January 3, 2015 TI, you're reading that sentence at face value. That's not what I meant to imply. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wells Posted January 3, 2015 (edited) . Edited February 11, 2015 by ZOOM 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ralis Posted January 3, 2015 You know, SJ, that is a strange question to me. In shamatha, if there is any movement of mind you are no longer in shamatha, therefore there is no way to assess anything "during shamatha" as you have asked. If you are seeking insight, then that would be vipassana, wouldn't it? I think the difference between the two is just a semantic argument. Problems with translation. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wells Posted January 3, 2015 (edited) . Edited February 11, 2015 by ZOOM Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dawei Posted January 4, 2015 According to Dzogchen, the primordial spirit (mother clear light) is in the heart and the conscious spirit (son clear light) is in the head. According to The Secret Of The Golden Flower, it's the other way around! Interesting point... so how do you explain this? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wells Posted January 5, 2015 (edited) . Edited February 11, 2015 by ZOOM 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
子泰 Posted January 5, 2015 I can offer a bit of info. Perhaps in Buddhism, when they refer to heart, they are talking about the heart-mind? I looked up heart in sanskrit and tibetan, they all refer to the heart-mind. Also, being a native Chinese speaker, I know for sure that heart in Chinese is definitely the heart-mind. I know that in Taoism, the body is a representation of the universe. Behind the two eyes means having a single eye. Similarly, in a more macroscopic representation, the term "behind the two eyes" would mean that which preceeds yin and yang. I think in a later chapter in the secret of the golden flower, Lu Dong Bin also states that the term "behind the two eyes" should not be taken literally. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MooNiNite Posted January 5, 2015 (edited) When a master becomes enlightened or awakened, their visual field is no longer situated in the head. They don't consciously experience themselves observing reality from the head anymore, but instead observing reality from the heart area. Edited January 5, 2015 by MooNiNite 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cheshire Cat Posted January 5, 2015 (edited) When a master becomes enlightened or awakened, their visual field is no longer situated in the head. They don't consciously experience themselves observing reality from the head anymore, but instead observing reality from the heart area. Yes, the eyes acquire an higher function. :P :P Edited January 5, 2015 by DAO rain TAO 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C T Posted January 5, 2015 When a master becomes enlightened or awakened, their visual field is no longer situated in the head. They don't consciously experience themselves observing reality from the head anymore, but instead observing reality from the heart area. In Vajrayana both head and heart is ultimately transcended. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blue eyed snake Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) being green to this I have no comment, except that I find this thread very interesting, Edited February 17, 2015 by blue eyed snake 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ish Posted January 19, 2015 When a master becomes enlightened or awakened, their visual field is no longer situated in the head. They don't consciously experience themselves observing reality from the head anymore, but instead observing reality from the heart area. Where did u hear that btw? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grabmywrist4 Posted February 16, 2015 Found this topic in a google search. I was actually the guy that posted this on dharmawheel lol. I still have this thing in between my eyebrows. The reason I think it's a problem is because it seems to be related to confusion, delusion, doubt, and a whole bunch of unpleasant emotions. I use to describe my head area as a nuclear war zone because mostly every unpleasant emotion i have is inside of it and my throat. I've actually considered that this big pressure is just a giant emotion itself. When I seem to be deluded or confused or can't think properly I will search where it is and my mind will end up right here inside of this sensation or pressure in my head. It's like heavy air trapped inside of a jar or something. It moves through my eyebrow and down my ear and right jaw, down my neck and the right side of my body when I observe it. And a few years ago I noticed that the breath doesn't go as much into the right side of my body when I breathe in, most of it goes into the left side. I've been noticing recently the right side of my body feels kind of dead and sluggish like it's falling over. And I've also always had problems with my right thumb, and problems with my right knee. I'm connecting this thing in my head with a bunch of other things going on in my body. So I guess it isn't so bad since it's been a learning experience. But if anyone can help me fix this thing that would be great. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grabmywrist4 Posted February 16, 2015 Found this topic in a google search. I was actually the guy that posted this on dharmawheel lol. I still have this thing in between my eyebrows. The reason I think it's a problem is because it seems to be related to confusion, delusion, doubt, and a whole bunch of unpleasant emotions. I use to describe my head area as a nuclear war zone because mostly every unpleasant emotion i have is inside of it and my throat. I've actually considered that this big pressure is just a giant emotion itself. When I seem to be deluded or confused or can't think properly I will search where it is and my mind will end up right here inside of this sensation or pressure in my head. It's like heavy air trapped inside of a jar or something. It moves through my eyebrow and down my ear and right jaw, down my neck and the right side of my body when I observe it. And a few years ago I noticed that the breath doesn't go as much into the right side of my body when I breathe in, most of it goes into the left side. I've been noticing recently the right side of my body feels kind of dead and sluggish like it's falling over. And I've also always had problems with my right thumb, and problems with my right knee. I'm connecting this thing in my head with a bunch of other things going on in my body. So I guess it isn't so bad since it's been a learning experience. But if anyone can help me fix this thing that would be great. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SonOfTheGods Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) My personal experience with pressure between the eyebrows is that it gets too intense to continue any practice... and even after you let it go, and stop it... a single thought brings the pressure back. In a very recent connection, the pressure was so strong and painful I just dropped out. It tends to feel like a blockage trying to open... alike blowing up a balloon which will eventually open (explode). If it is painful: Acupuncture point = Large Intestine 4- Hegu Location is on the hand, in the web between the thumb and index finger. With your other hand - press that area/acupressure if you experience pain in the Yintang I hope that helps Edited February 16, 2015 by SonOfTheGods 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wells Posted February 17, 2015 (edited) . Edited May 10, 2016 by Wells Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anderson Posted February 17, 2015 But the third eye or "Lamp of Pristine Reality-Itself" has to do with Yang-Ti, which is above Thodgal! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wells Posted February 17, 2015 (edited) . Edited May 10, 2016 by Wells Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wells Posted February 19, 2015 (edited) . Edited May 10, 2016 by Wells Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chang Posted February 19, 2015 Moderation Message Differences of opinion need not lead to tit for tat squabbling within the thread. Please keep to topic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anderson Posted February 19, 2015 Ah, so you know better than Norbu and two other significant sources of mine. Ok... Please provide details where rinpoche has maintained that yangti is higher than thogal. In any case yangti is not a practice but a doxographical category , a colection of views and histories wich contains practices like dark retreat and such whereas thogal is a method of practice, a practical application of a certain view. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wells Posted February 19, 2015 (edited) . Edited May 10, 2016 by Wells Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anderson Posted February 19, 2015 Well, the mod message seems not to be the only thing you are ignoring. You probably don't understand english very well. I could now go into that what rinpoche critizises most in many of his his western students is exactly the mentality you are demonstrating here, I am not demonstrating any mentality .I am merely demonstrating the difference between a doxographical category and a practical application of a certain view. As you obviously are ignorant of the details of Yang-Ti practice it is unreasonable to try to discuss it with me. I doubt that you have received anything remotely close to practices belonging to Yangti. You have shown on numerous occasions that you have no understanding, no proper instruction and no respect for anything related to dzogchen. It is above Thodgal because it can lead much faster to Rainbow Body than Thodgal and specifically it aims at the Rainbow Body of Great Transference. You are free to make arbitrary distinctions based on no knowledge whatsoever Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wells Posted February 19, 2015 (edited) . Edited May 10, 2016 by Wells Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
