DharmaWheel, pressure between the eyebrows, bad advice

[Tibetan_Ice]

Did it appear like slices of video with lots of brilliant white light in between the frames? Like reality is a series of 3d pictures and if you grasp at one of them you are in that one? And that if you stay out of the picture slice, you could use the white light to present a whole different picture or " location" to go to? Like there is no time or space in the white light, but there is time and space in each picture slice?

Edited November 25, 2014 by Tibetan_Ice

[wangchungman]

For me it was like seeing with my own eyes.

[Anderson]

For me it was like seeing with my own eyes.

I don't know if you are very deluded or you are joking.

People who've completed the four visions can perform all manner of miracles and teach others.

If you visit me in my dream tonight i will believe you.😊

[wangchungman]

I don't know if you are very deluded or you are joking.

People who've completed the four visions can perform all manner of miracles and teach others.

If you visit me in my dream tonight i will believe you.😊

you won't meet a teacher in your dream unless you want to; there must be that connection; my teachers are happy with my report of my experience

[Anderson]

you won't meet a teacher in your dream unless you want to; there must be that connection; my teachers are happy with my report of my experience

 

And your teacher Taklung Tsetrul Rinpoche confirmed that you have completed the fourth vision ?

[wangchungman]

 

And your teacher Taklung Tsetrul Rinpoche confirmed that you have completed the fourth vision ?

Yes. Also ChNN

[Yasjua]

I really wish someone had explained this to me years ago when I first started meditating. I jumped right in as a 19 year old, meditating about 12 hours a day, to and from class, doing counting, thought-observation and negation, breathwork, and striving for lucid dreams in the evenings. I moved into a monastery within 8 months of starting meditation. A lot of things clicked very rapidly and intuitively for me regarding the nature of thought, identity, etc. But I had no idea what was happening with the pressure between the eyebrows. It would keep me up at night, disturbed my psyche pretty deeply, and was almost always present, especially if I was doing any kind of meditation. Anyway, the condition got so bad I switched to non-dual philosophy and stopped practicing formal meditation, preferring just to blow my awareness open over and over and keep my attention the hell away from my physical body or anything going on near it. I'm still terrified of formal meditation because of how bizarre I felt carrying that sensation around in my head everywhere and not being able to focus on or relate to anything external.

[Tibetan_Ice]

I came across this site today and noticed that there were many references to pressure between the eyebrows as relates to kundalini in the various posts.

 

http://anmolmehta.com/blog/2008/01/03/kundalini-awakening-symptoms/?cp=1

 

you would think that Malcolm would know all this stuff, like Heart drops of Dharmakaya, the drops, the blazing, the central channel, tummo etc.. After all, he is supposed to be a tibetan doctor.

 

There must be some Buddhist writings somewhere that talk about pressure between the eyebrows when dealing with Buddhist tantric practices...

[ralis]

I came across this site today and noticed that there were many references to pressure between the eyebrows as relates to kundalini in the various posts.

 

http://anmolmehta.com/blog/2008/01/03/kundalini-awakening-symptoms/?cp=1

 

you would think that Malcolm would know all this stuff, like Heart drops of Dharmakaya, the drops, the blazing, the central channel, tummo etc.. After all, he is supposed to be a tibetan doctor.

 

There must be some Buddhist writings somewhere that talk about pressure between the eyebrows when dealing with Buddhist tantric practices...

 

I have never found mention of it in any Tibetan text. Although, Lama Rinchen Phuntsok did verify that i had a Kundalini experience. He must be the most knowledgeable Lama around and I believe he has memorized the entire corpus of Tibetan knowledge.

 

http://dongakcholing.org/LamaRinchen.html

 

The problem with any Tibetan text in my experience is the translations/commentaries are not in accordance with any Indian Sanskrit texts. Words are intentionally spelled and pronounced differently. E,g. Swaha (Sanskrit), Svaha (Tibetan). Tibetans have an extreme dislike for most anything Indian or at least in my experience with them. I asked a Lama who is the main Kagyu teacher at the Santa Fe center if he was putting ghee on his rice and he immediately responded; "that's Hindu" and changed the subject.

Edited December 24, 2014 by ralis

[Tibetan_Ice]

 

I have never found mention of it in any Tibetan text. Although, Lama Rinchen Phuntsok did verify that i had a Kundalini experience. He must be the most knowledgeable Lama around and I believe he has memorized the entire corpus of Tibetan knowledge.

 

http://dongakcholing.org/LamaRinchen.html

 

The problem with any Tibetan text in my experience is the translations/commentaries are not in accordance with any Indian Sanskrit texts. Words are intentionally spelled and pronounced differently. E,g. Swaha (Sanskrit), Svaha (Tibetan). Tibetans have an extreme dislike for most anything Indian or at least in my experience with them. I asked a Lama who is the main Kagyu teacher at the Santa Fe center if he was putting ghee on his rice and he immediately responded; "that's Hindu" and changed the subject.

Interesting idea. Had a look at "The Bliss of Inner Fire" (six yogas of Naropa) and I found this:

 

Our vajra body also contains subtle liquid energy, the red and white drops. The Tibetan word for these drops is tigle, but I prefer to use the Hindu term kundalini because it is more universal. The tantras also refer to the drops as bodhicitta. Actually, in Tibetan we say kun-da da-bu jang-sem, which translates as moon-like bodhicitta. Although these red and white drops are always together in all the channels, the female red drops predominate at the navel chakra and the male white drops at the crown chakra. (Some tantric practices speak of the kundalini drops as deities; they say that dakas and dakinis dance throughout the nervous system.)

 

[ralis]

Interesting idea. Had a look at "The Bliss of Inner Fire" (six yogas of Naropa) and I found this:

 

 

 

Since I am not a scholar I only speak from a limited experience. I do have that book, but it has been years since I read it.

[Tibetan_Ice]

 

 

Since I am not a scholar I only speak from a limited experience. I do have that book, but it has been years since I read it.

It is a good book. Helped me allot.

Funny too, I think the usage of the term "kundalini" is only by the writer. In my other book called "the Six Yogas of Naropa" by Glen Mullen, there is no usage of the term "kundalini" at all.

 

P.S. I am not a scholar. I hope I don't give that impression.

[ralis]

It is a good book. Helped me allot.

Funny too, I think the usage of the term "kundalini" is only by the writer. In my other book called "the Six Yogas of Naropa" by Glen Mullen, there is no usage of the term "kundalini" at all.

 

P.S. I am not a scholar. I hope I don't give that impression.

 

I appreciate your comments which are very useful to me. You might consider reading this piece by my favorite writer A.A. Attanasio. I am reading it for the second time since last night. Very challenging piece.

 

http://attanasio.blogspot.com

[dawei]

My personal experience with pressure between the eyebrows is that it gets too intense to continue any practice... and even after you let it go, and stop it... a single thought brings the pressure back. In a very recent connection, the pressure was so strong and painful I just dropped out.

 

It tends to feel like a blockage trying to open... alike blowing up a balloon which will eventually open (explode).

[Tibetan_Ice]

My personal experience with pressure between the eyebrows is that it gets too intense to continue any practice... and even after you let it go, and stop it... a single thought brings the pressure back. In a very recent connection, the pressure was so strong and painful I just dropped out.

 

It tends to feel like a blockage trying to open... alike blowing up a balloon which will eventually open (explode).

Hi Dawei,

Here are my ideas about this phenomenon.

 

I don't think it is a blockage. It is more like the hole at the bottom of the bath tub, a region where two dimensions meet, a doorway like in a pressurized spaceship.

 

Many Buddhist books say the the central channel terminates at the brow. They also say that the left and right channels terminate at the nostrils. The phenomenon called "collapsing the left and right channels into the central channel" is said to be a primary method to experience spiritual awakening (if I can use such vague terms). In tummo, you generate heat and then direct the mixture up through the other end of the central channel below the navel. Or, you direct the bottoms of the left and channels into the bottom of the central channel. I have heard that bottom up is safer than top down, but then top down is easier and because it is easier, more people accidentally activate it without the proper background or knowledge.

 

That is why breath meditation, is key.

 

Typically there is always one nostril which is more open than the other one, and in normal healthy beings, it shifts from one nostril to the other every four hours or so. Breath meditation balances the in breath and the out breath resulting in an equal flow of air through both the left and right sides. This balance promotes the collapse of the left and right channels into the central channel, whose termination point is between the brows.

 

Now, the central channel, which is the great dissolver and opening to the void and what lies beyond, is kind of like the hole at the bottom of the tub. When someone pulls the plug out of a filled tub, the pressure from the water is brought to bear and in spiraling fashion, the water is sucked out (or pushed) through the hole. This event is the feeling of pressure.

 

Yes, it feels like a balloon releasing pressure, or a magnetic pull like there was a black hole right between the eyebrows. And when it gets activated, it pulls in the left and right channels, starting withe tips of those channels in the nostrils, which is why the whole nose goes numb when the left and right channels are balanced and collapsing.

 

Now, here is the thing. You can collapse the left and right channels outwards or you can collapse them inwards. Once the pressure starts, you can direct the pressure or pull. You use visualization augmented by visualizing a spiraling swirl of energy outwards or inwards. If you push it out you end up in other planes. If you suck it inwards down the central you can dissolve the whole outer world into yourself. If you suck it down into the heart region, which is where the black hole exists, it will produce fear, the feeling of dying and the dissolution of the body/mind. But if you can get over those conscious feelings, and the feelings that your consciousness is dissolving away, you can get beyond, which you find is also a huge open space with layers of planes superimposed one on top of each other.

 

So, there is the idea that you can actually control this pressure and direct it.

 

When I first noticed the pressure, that magnetic pull like a mini black hole, it got bigger and stronger as the days passed. Some nights the pressure would move around my whole face, warping it and twisting it as it moved about. I enjoyed the feeling tremendously. It never did any damage nor produced any pain. It was like the photo editor in Windows, the special effects one that twists the picture into spirals. But then one night, the magnetic pull moved to the back of the head and I kid you not, it was trying to suck me out into this huge open space. I fought with all my might for over 20 minutes not to be sucked out into space. If I knew now what I didn't know then I would have gone for it. Have you ever seen a cat frightened by a vacuum cleaner? Like the machine was going to break apart the individual atoms of the cat and be lost forever into the dustbag? That is how I felt.

 

The Kunlun technique called the Red Phoenix is precisely a practice to develop and direct the pressure, the magnetic pull, to direct and work with the central channel's uppermost termination point. Perhaps termination point is a bad term. It is more like a bottle neck with a cork stuck in it. One day you put a hole in the cork. You keep at it until eventually you pull out the cork...

 

Anyway, enough of that. Hopefully this will help someone get a better understanding of this phenomenon and not treat like it is some kind of disease.

Edited December 26, 2014 by Tibetan_Ice

[dawei]

Here are my ideas about this phenomenon.

 

thanks I'll have to let this sink in with re-reads and maybe ask some questions.

[wilfred]

i've had strong sensations in this area, it kicked off a couple of months after starting a daily meditation practice. presumably it's linked to this stuff - i feel an energy between the brows and at the bottom of the nostrils. the feeling between the brows is most lively, it moves around the eyes, nose and gets very pressurised at times. my feeling is that it is linked to some type of blockage as the more grounded and balanced i'm getting the more it moves downward. subtle systems are coming online, but there's some type of blockage/imbalance in the lower chakras stopping the energy flowing freely.

[Tibetan_Ice]

Here is some more about pressure and the activation of sahasrara and ajna ( for us kundalini yogis and yoginis)

 

From Kundalini Tantra - Saraswati

 

This research indicates a definite relationship between eye position and hemispheric dominance. It also indicates that shambhavi mudra and trataka balance brain hemisphere activity because the eyes are held steady at the center of the forehead, crossed in shambhavi and straight ahead in trataka. Even when we practise these techniques we may feel a very powerful stimulation and pressure within the center of the head, ajna chakra activation, and the subjective experience is that of simultaneous extroversion and introversion. Shambhavi is the more powerful technique and induces an almost immediate effect. Centralized focusing of awareness appears to affect both nadis simultaneously.

 

 

That is actually a good description ... Simultaneous introversion and extroversion.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Kundalini-Tantra-Re-print-Golden-Jubilee/dp/8185787158/ref=sr_1_6?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1420092970&sr=1-6&keywords=saraswati

Edited January 1, 2015 by Tibetan_Ice

[Spotless]

My personal experience with pressure between the eyebrows is that it gets too intense to continue any practice... and even after you let it go, and stop it... a single thought brings the pressure back. In a very recent connection, the pressure was so strong and painful I just dropped out.

 

It tends to feel like a blockage trying to open... alike blowing up a balloon which will eventually open (explode).

 

I have never personally experienced intense uncomfortable pressure between the eyebrows but I am very familiar with an intense magnetic field in the head and many different facets of enfoldment in this area.

 

Specifically if the pressure has advanced to an uncomfortable stage you may wish to look at the position of your head during meditation - the posture is very important. It is very important that the head be tilted slightly forward to lengthen and straighten the spine. I am certain you can find good charts showing this.

 

The jaw should be slack to slightly teeth apart - tongue touching the forward upper palate just behind the teeth.

 

If the head is not straightened but is somewhat in its normal setting during meditation, then it can create difficult pressures and apprehensions as well as visions and other difficult and possibly scary side effects.

 

Remedy this by proper head posture and probably a visit to a acupuncturist or better/best a Qi Gong healer to infuse this area with proper Qi and dissipate / normalize the energy exchanges in the head.

 

It should not take much to time to turn the tables on this - it is not typically a difficult problem. (A few months or far less even just a day or one session)

 

I would proceed first to heal the head and then back to meditation in the proper posture.

 

Work also to work from the LDT and progress upward. If you are head oriented then this will require your effort but it will be worth it I can assure you.

 

That you have reached this temporary problem tells us that you are further along than you realize and it is not a bad sign to be discouraged by in any way.

 

If is can find better words for my explaination I will come back to this - hope this is helpful.

[Tibetan_Ice]

I have never personally experienced intense uncomfortable pressure between the eyebrows but I am very familiar with an intense magnetic field in the head and many different facets of enfoldment in this area.

 

Specifically if the pressure has advanced to an uncomfortable stage you may wish to look at the position of your head during meditation - the posture is very important. It is very important that the head be tilted slightly forward to lengthen and straighten the spine. I am certain you can find good charts showing this.

 

The jaw should be slack to slightly teeth apart - tongue touching the forward upper palate just behind the teeth.

 

If the head is not straightened but is somewhat in its normal setting during meditation, then it can create difficult pressures and apprehensions as well as visions and other difficult and possibly scary side effects.

 

Remedy this by proper head posture and probably a visit to a acupuncturist or better/best a Qi Gong healer to infuse this area with proper Qi and dissipate / normalize the energy exchanges in the head.

 

It should not take much to time to turn the tables on this - it is not typically a difficult problem. (A few months or far less even just a day or one session)

 

I would proceed first to heal the head and then back to meditation in the proper posture.

 

Work also to work from the LDT and progress upward. If you are head oriented then this will require your effort but it will be worth it I can assure you.

 

That you have reached this temporary problem tells us that you are further along than you realize and it is not a bad sign to be discouraged by in any way.

 

If is can find better words for my explaination I will come back to this - hope this is helpful.

 

Hi Spotless,

I'm confused. In your first post in this thread you said that you have experienced this pressure between the eyebrows for over 40 yrs, yet in this post today you say "I have never personally experienced intense uncomfortable pressure between the eyebrows".

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/36844-dharmawheel-pressure-between-the-eyebrows-bad-advice/?p=591298

 

In that post you said this:

This is a very important point.

 

If you have come to feel this magnetic center do not cast it aside like some problem.

 

I have not looked into the many quotes by TI given in his original post but the tenor of what he is saying is very true. This is a very real treasure because it will act as a guide post as to whether or not you are centered within your path.

 

I have had this for some forty years - it is a milestone not to become infatuated with but also an awareness that will not leave you when you are In your path. If you do not feel it because it has left you, you will feel it again as you meditate, talk about meditation or spiritual things, sit in silence, listen to fine music, practicemovement and so forth.

 

Time and again it will awaken within you and if you work to reside in it and you are practicing with due dilligence, then other magnetic centers will arise in you and many more things will happen as a byproduct on the path.

Edited by Spotless, 09 November 2014 - 11:43 PM.

 

Your statements are confusing. In your response to Dawei, are you addressing the pain aspect instead of the magnetic pull? There is a difference. I have never found the pressure from the magnetic pull between the eyebrows to be painful. Intense, yes, but not painful. Your post comes across like it is addressing pain from the magnetic pull between the eyebrows.

 

What I have found is that trying to maintain a point of view during meditation becomes very painful after a while. An example of this is when I decide to do a meditation and maintain the point of view that reality is a dream, an illusion. The act of trying to maintain a conceptual conglomerate is a constructed endeavor, one which requires energy and focus. This focus and accumulation of energy can become very painful. One clue the Dawei mentioned is that a single thought can bring the pressure/pain back.

The magnetic pull is not produced by effort, it is produced by relaxation, by releasing any tension in the forehead, in the eyes and around the nose. Even sambhavi can be very painful if you tense up.

 

The method that activates the magnetic pull between the brows that works for me consistently is to gently inhale through the nose as if one were trying to smell a very subtle aroma, while focusing on the point at the top of the sinus cavity, just behind the center of he eyebrows. Then, relax. There is no force or tension nor is there any pain. It is all very subtle. It works best when both sinuses are clear and the in breath and out breath are balanced.

 

I will agree that incorrect head posture will also produce pain, but that particular pain occurs at the base of the skull, somewhere near the medulla?

Edited January 1, 2015 by Tibetan_Ice

[Spotless]

I was addressing the pain aspect - yes. (not related to magnetic)

 

If the head position is consistently as I stated the pressures will accumulate well beyond just the base - actually very little will be base related.

 

All of these things very much depend on your own practice and your natural frequencies and cultivated levels.

 

I have experience intense pressures but I never equated pain with these practices - some ache but always progress.

At the time it was Raja Yoga with mostly meditation though head stands, postures, diet, fasting and no stimulants 4-6 hours a day.

 

A greater focus upon the LDT and allowing the transmutations of energy to work their way up in time (usually several years) will result in astonishing results - this embodiment aspect is a helpful one.

 

Your clarification from your viewpoint on all these things is very good to see (TI) - this is a very important grouping of information.

We can over engineer our "knowledge" of such things and so I do not like to create too much teaching not related to a particular person or a known practice. Your endeavor to do so is admirable and one that invites criticism but your perseverance despite this is what is admirable because you do indeed have considerable experience and have the relentless resolve to explore it and share it.

 

Going back to the pressures again - many students will feel "pressure between the brows" - but some of this is not so much a pressure between the brows as it is a general pressure in the slightly forward of center of the head. This pressure then can be shifted with a relatively light mental focusing of it in any direction but primarily felt when focused in practice toward the brow area where the analyzer is located just prior to the third eye area. It may appear as popcorn lights and it can produce pain or ache.

 

As you continue this will be transcended (I do not mean to imply by transmutation but that you will calm and find eventually a focus beyond this in the actual third eye) as you find sight of the "tunnel" or bluish light with ever receding sides. Progression from there depends on many factors.

 

Small mechanical details in posture and other practice related physical details have a very big influence upon how things unfold for each of us. Most of the physical exercises that practices/teachings have laid out address the body for these purposes in addition to the attention they play with upon the nadis throughout the body and movement of energy through the channels and into the finer parts.

 

Finding the center in the LDT is extremely beneficial - it is the key to finding the heart and head.

We tend to wish and assume this is a top down endeavor whereas the opposite is basically true. If there seems to be a rare exception you will find it is not an exception but that the person was naturally well based there to begin with - or - that the progress while exceptional and quite high has a less balanced crystallization than imagined.

I am bringing this LDT thing up again because it is dismissed frequently and it is key - but in the West we equate lower with base - our Christian heritage ingrains this judge mental status. If we are head based it will also appear to be base regardless of our religious heritage.

Edited January 1, 2015 by Spotless

[Spotless]

Regarding the shift to the magnetic center - any shift of awareness towards it will eventually bring it to the front of your awareness.

The breathing definitely does the trick you speak of in the nose.

Eventually it will always be there and it will no longer be isolated but joined with other great magnetic columns (this has been my experience).

 

The inner space and high realms from a build starting in LDT and up - embodiment - transforms the very high mastery of head into a far deeper experience - the word effort becomes alien.

Edited January 1, 2015 by Spotless

[Wells]

.

Edited February 11, 2015 by ZOOM

[dawei]

So, there is the idea that you can actually control this pressure and direct it.

 

I've re-read your comments and in general, I can re-direct the pressure; usually over the top of my head and down the spine. I can't explain why I would not take it down the front; I am just following an energetic instinct in the moment.

 

It does arise like a buildup; sometimes not even meditating, as Spotless talks about but I'll reply to that later.

 

Next time it is that intense, I'll try to flow with it.

[dawei]

Finding the center in the LDT is extremely beneficial - it is the key to finding the heart and head.

We tend to wish and assume this is a top down endeavor whereas the opposite is basically true. If there seems to be a rare exception you will find it is not an exception but that the person was naturally well based there to begin with - or - that the progress while exceptional and quite high has a less balanced crystallization than imagined.

I am bringing this LDT thing up again because it is dismissed frequently and it is key - but in the West we equate lower with base - our Christian heritage ingrains this judge mental status. If we are head based it will also appear to be base regardless of our religious heritage.

 

I agree a bottom-up is more natural; some may experience a different way and that is their path to find. So, for me, I would say bottom-up is correct. My chakras have opened/activated 1-5; so I am at an expected location.

 

I will tie back to the LDT. This tie back, for me, is via the TaiJi Pole which connects all the chakras.