Fourth state of consciousness

[Nikolai1]

Hi all,

 

I've been reading a bit of the modern Advaita guys - mostly Ramana Maharshi and Nisargadatta - and they both talk a lot about the four states of consciousness:

 

1) the normal waking state.

2) the dreaming state

3) the void state of deep sleep.

 

And to these they add a fourth, which they say actually includes all the previous three, and is therefore the first and only state of consciousness. The term they use for this state is turiya.

 

I find this fascinating and I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who has direct experience of this state?

 

The reality of this fourth state completely changes how we think of sleep, for example. It suggests that the oblivion of deep sleep is actually directly experienced by us all, and that it is an error to think that we were unconscious. In other words, absence of thoughts, feelings etc is not unconsciousness, we only believe it is.

 

The more we learn to transcend our walking state the more we learn to tap into this fourth state.

But for me, I do not feel like deep sleep is an experience I have, rather it seems like i infer it by the gap in memories. So, if anyone can tell me how the experience of deep sleep feels, I'd love to here.

 

A corollary of entering the fourth state is that dreams can be consciously directed just as our waking cognitions can. Is this the case?

 

I look forward to hearing from you!

[iain]

Hello Nikolai1

Awareness is very fleeting at first, before it stabilises. We go in and out of these states whilst fully awake, we do so all the time; Watch your breath for long enough and you will notice this.
It is curious thing that as we try to remember, mind smooths over the gaps to form a linear past.

I think this is perhaps better aligned with Kashmir shavism than to Advaita.

Turya is the 4th state or bhāva; there is more in the 5th and beyond.

Edited November 11, 2014 by iain

[eye_of_the_storm]

[eye_of_the_storm]

Hm I like the idea of turiya

From my understanding Buddhism only aims for 3) the void state of deep sleep ?

I have seen something in similar description to Turiya called "superconsciousness"

What is the 5th state?

[iain]

Turya is the other side of the void; we might remember that Gautama Buddha left his homeland and family in search of something, or, was he perhaps running away from something?

5th state is knowledge gained as one passes into 4th state.

To understand this and to grasp turya we must first understand the guna, they are vital to understanding this. 4th state is awareness from out side of the guna. The guna colour our waking state rather like a conditional axis of our mind.
Bhudisme speaks only of the void state, leaving that which is perceived unspoken, so as perhaps not to precondition the Superconcious; problem with this, that I have, is that demons will always creep in.
Being void of the guna is to my mind perhaps more aptly stated as being at a temporal forefront.

There are 5 levels of being.

Material - Me my body
Mind / ego - The realisation of material you, the self. Your desires and your dharma.
Subconscious - The underlying you, the heart breath and vital functions.
Superconcious - Your Mother tong Maternal connection, Paternal beliefs homelands structure; That by which you are conditioned.
Supraconscious - Karma past life, universal connection.

Edited November 12, 2014 by iain

[Jetsun]

Its not that complicated .

 

Just pay attention to the sounds in your environment right now, where did they arise from? Where did they go to? What do they arise within?

 

What is it that is aware of reading this post? What is it that is aware?

 

They are a few basic pointers to try to get a experience of that fourth state of consciousness, yet it isn't really a state, it is what all states arise within. It is the only constant yet we miss it. You don't need to transcend anything to get it, it is already what you are and already present right now as you read this post.

[Nikolai1]

It is the only constant yet we miss it. You don't need to transcend anything to get it, it is already what you are and already present right now as you read this post.

 

Yes this is how I understand the fourth state. It feels like I can go into it at will, and sometimes it descends upon me not at will.

 

In meditation, (which is where I first learnt to recognise it) it can feel very pronounced and the otherness of the everyday world is striking.

 

But clearly there are depths of this fourth state that I am no where near attaining.

 

Both Ramana Maharshi and Nisargadatta maintain that they are in this state during deep sleep. They are conscious while their body is inert and snoring. This is extraordinary and fascinating.

 

They are in a state of mind where the uncanny world of dreams and the 'real world' of waking consciousness are nothing other than passing moods, perspectives on reality but not reality itself.

 

They are quite clearly living a completely different order of existence.

 

So exciting and inspiring to think its there for our attainment if we want it!

 

So that's why I'm interested in anyone who lives from the depths of this fourth state. I think awareness during deep sleep is a pretty good indicator that you are there.

[Nikolai1]

Eye of the storm,

 

I love it that you posted an image of the prism. Whenever I try and make sense of this stuff the metaphor of the prism returns to me time and time again.

 

For example, reality can be known directly through awareness (white light) or, if we are not able to do this, reality can be 'refracted' into the various senses (sight, sound etc) and known that way

 

In turn each sensory modality can be refracted

 

Sight = white light refracted into the colours of the spectrum

Sound = the primordial sound (Aum) refracted into the notes of the octave.

Feeling = pure body consciousness refracted into the seven chakras

 

Etc.

 

The point of the spiritual life is to pass beyond the everyday refracted reality to the pure unrefracted Reality!

[Boy]

...

Edited December 1, 2014 by Boy

[eye_of_the_storm]

<p>it isn't that there is no-self/ no doing ... I don't believe... it is just that the awareness is so... that only the action seems apparent.<br />

<br />

And who is experiencing "no self" to say that it is no self... to me this is ridiculous and is either severely lacking in reasoning capacity or is an intentionally deceptive teaching to dis-empower.<br />

<br />

Sometimes when I paint ... you could say I am not there... but I am there at another level without clouds of thoughts or thinking I am.. in that moment I am creating ... I am still present<br />

<br />

Some call this being "in the zone" "in the flow" etc ?<br />

<br />

So we are pure awareness, but we put limitations on our pure awareness to the degree that it is unable to express itself most fully.<br />

<br />

Like a raging river that something has put a dam against and now only a trickle of water escapes... and people think they are that trickle of water completely identifying with that ... when the damn breaks and they experience themselves as the raging river... they have no foundation/ position to see this as themselves.../ overwhelmed by the experience... making illogical statement such as "no self" and going back to the beginning... or less.<br />

<br />

Having access to these levels of consciousness and doing nothing with it. While their country is in abject poverty.<br />

<br />

Even if reality is a dream... why not make it a beautiful dream?<br />

<br />

Then you have someone like Nikola Tesla who is perhaps what a real sage is.<br />

<br />

Uniting Heaven and Earth and attempting to create technologies that would free the world.<br />

<br />

Much more creative... compared to sitting in rags telling people they don't exist (to me this appears to be some demonic (anti-life(creativity) mind**** game) opposite of creativity...<br />

<br />

embracing self annihilation, teaching self annihilation and around them creating deserts.. as something "spiritual" ... for me this is the very opposite of spiritual.<br />

<br />

Spirituality I would define as creativity ... gaining access to such states is to allow greater creativity to flow and to create wonderful worlds.<br />

<br />

When did spirituality get mixed up with nihilism? <br />

 </p>

Edited November 13, 2014 by eye_of_the_storm

[Spotless]

Most ideas of being there are based on trance states which is not what they are talking about.

 

On the other side of it, there is no floaty feeling - you can sit on geometric and crystalline forms of communication without the busy movement. Massive experience and clarity takes place in "no space - no time" but even a slight identification and it stops abruptly.

 

You are what you see - complete and instantaneously - see the sky - you are miles and miles of electric floating breathing moisture, air rain hail looking in every direction, look down see a river you are the river, become a fish, be eaten by a bear, become the bear.

 

In the day everything is speaking, the air effects all of you, your body is thick and full beyond the skin. Walking feels like bounding and words come out of the mouth on your face. Walking around is familiar but new. The visuals surround you. People are often clear and see-through also walls and everything.

Edited November 16, 2014 by Spotless

[Seeker of Wisdom]

...From my understanding Buddhism only aims for 3) the void state of deep sleep ?...

 

I would say Buddhism doesn't aim for any particular state of consciousness (all are just temporary, relative states), but rather gnosis of the nature of phenomena and the mind, as they are in any state.

 

If turiya pervades the other states of consciousness, maybe that's the same thing.

[iain]

A few extra thoughts for the mixing pot:

tūrya also means musical instrument; I wonder how attuned are the ears of those who are so aware as to be able to listen to them selves play, thus moderating their own tune upon the strength or weakness of that which they perceive. Is there perhaps some correlation here with musical or even linguistic abilities?
To hear the words of a teacher emerge from the background noise that the self desirous to join with it's Self, might create.

Knowledge of "śruti" is to my mind, very relevant to tūrya; the ability to hear between the phrasing the intonation and tone, between eventually the lines; to differentiate that which is, from that which imitates ...

The ear is related to the third state, the breath is the vital function concerned here, our prāṇa will directly effect how we perceive all that we hear, and thus is our interpretation of all of our senses.

One must be crystal clear when referring to such elucidating practises.

Edited November 13, 2014 by iain

[Boy]

...

Edited December 1, 2014 by Boy

[Yasjua]

In turn each sensory modality can be refracted

 

Sight = white light refracted into the colours of the spectrum

Sound = the primordial sound (Aum) refracted into the notes of the octave.

Feeling = pure body consciousness refracted into the seven chakras

 

Etc.

 

The point of the spiritual life is to pass beyond the everyday refracted reality to the pure unrefracted Reality!

 

Could you explain to me why Aum is the primordial sound? I have never understood this.

[Nikolai1]

Could you explain to me why Aum is the primordial sound? I have never understood this.

 

I'm not sure I can explain why but it seems to be a psychological fact that in semi-mystical experience ultimate reality is often construed in terms of one of the senses.

 

For many people this sense is sight and reality appears as a very bright light that we realise is not 'of the world'. It is the 'light that lights the light' or the 'light above the light' in the words of St Augustine.

 

For others, reality is construed in terms of the sense of hearing. The Aum is to sound what the light is to vision.

 

Although I have various experiences with seemingly transcendental light I have had nothing ot do with sound and I'd be interested to hear from people that have?

[Silent Answers]

The simple, straight forward answer is that it produces a pleasant all round vibration when done correctly. It's an easy way to slow down your breathing rate (combine with regular breathing mechanics)... And it helps drown out random thoughts as your mind adjusts from soaking in sensory information, to a calmer environment.

 

** in response to Aum/Om/Ong

Edited November 23, 2014 by Silent Answers