Free Will/Choice?

[IntuitiveWanderer]

Mental activity is not existence, mental activity is subject to existence.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 21, 2014 by IntuitiveWanderer

[IntuitiveWanderer]

Are you amazed?

 

 

 

 

.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Let us cease this running in circles and acknowledge the obvious. Namely, my dear sir or lady, that there is no circle.

Edited November 21, 2014 by IntuitiveWanderer

[Marblehead]

But there is a circle. Even though we can't sense it the ant can.

 

Mental activity is not existence, mental activity is subject to existence.

 

I already told you that. Stop your circular thinking with all you circular logic.

[IntuitiveWanderer]

But there is a circle. Even though we can't sense it the ant can.

 

Mental activity is not existence, mental activity is subject to existence.

 

I already told you that. Stop your circular thinking with all you circular logic.

 

*chirp, chirp*

[Marblehead]

Hehehe. Thanks for the fun discussion.

 

Shall we get back to trying to decide whether or not we have free will and freedom of choice (within limits)?

[IntuitiveWanderer]

Hehehe. Thanks for the fun discussion.

 

Shall we get back to trying to decide whether or not we have free will and freedom of choice (within limits)?

 

You want me to accept your paradigm although you have yet to present a legitimate argument

 

If there is truth/existence/Tao then it must be one and unchangeable. So yes, free will exists in the same way that dreams, thoughts and hallucinations exist.

 

 

I thank you too, it was a fruitful discussion.

Edited November 21, 2014 by IntuitiveWanderer

[Marblehead]

You want me to accept your paradigm although you have yet to present a legitimate argument

Oh, No! Don't put that burden on me. It doesn't matter to me if you accept my understanding or not. My understandings are mine. Yours are yours. Testing our understandings against reality as we actually perceive it is called "Show and tell time."

 

My truth works for me. That's all I know.

 

I have not heard a single absolute truth in my entire life yet. You know why? Because Tao is dynamic, not static.

 

Free will is not total. There are limits and these limits constantly change.

 

You can keep your hallucinations though. I don't need any in my life.

[IntuitiveWanderer]

Oh, No! Don't put that burden on me. It doesn't matter to me if you accept my understanding or not. My understandings are mine. Yours are yours. Testing our understandings against reality as we actually perceive it is called "Show and tell time."

 

My truth works for me. That's all I know.

 

I have not heard a single absolute truth in my entire life yet. You know why? Because Tao is dynamic, not static.

 

Free will is not total. There are limits and these limits constantly change.

 

You can keep your hallucinations though. I don't need any in my life.

 

Testing different hypotheses is called science.

 

I am sorry to say this but, you Sir, seem to be an Atheist fanatic.

 

 

But, jokes aside,...in the end it is good that you don't accept it. You need to discover these things for yourself, not be persuaded over the internet by some strange person. It may well be that I'm wrong.

Edited November 21, 2014 by IntuitiveWanderer

[Marblehead]

I am sorry to say this but, you Sir, seem to be an Atheist fanatic.

Hehehe. I was an Atheist before I started calling myself a Taoist. And to make it worse, I am a Nietzschean Atheist.

 

But, jokes aside,...in the end it is good that you don't accept it. You need to discover these things for yourself, not be persuaded over the internet by some strange person. It may well be that I'm wrong.

You consider yourself a strange person, do you?

 

But yes, we each have a path to follow. Sometimes we cross paths and can walk together for a while.

[zerostao]

that second ant had some decent bagua skilz,

i'm gonna continue reading woolf's Mrs. Dalloway

not sure why i even mentioned that

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

that second ant had some decent bagua skilz,

i'm gonna continue reading woolf's Mrs. Dalloway

not sure why i even mentioned that

Which ant?

[IntuitiveWanderer]

Which ant?

From whence comes the question?

Edited November 23, 2014 by IntuitiveWanderer

[Marblehead]

From the Abyss, of course.

[zerostao]

From whence comes the question?

some posts will only be understood by long time posters here, it was an inside joke of sorts.

but the second ant video you posted, that ant did have some good bagua

[Vmarco]

I have presented it many times.

 

The universe is 13.7 billion years old. Humans have existed for a maximum of 4 million years.

 

So from your point of view the 13.696 billion years don't count for anything. But I argue that those years mean an awful lot because without them there would have been no evolution and therefore no you or me.

 

Actually,...the perceived universe is much older,...but because sentient beings do see things as they are,...the future is unknown for the universe to be accurately understood. That is to say,...time is One,...evolution occurs as it does because the future already is. It is like a movie or dream, where a story leads to a conclusion. Without the conclusion, the so-called beginning would not know where to begin. One movie or one universal reality,...nearly the same thing. I am here now, because I must be, for Oneness to be One. Time is One. Not a past leading to a future,...that's not One.

 

 

Sure,...without evolution, there would be no Marblehead,...and yet, without the reverse flow of forward moving things, there would be no Marblehead. Because of that,...ultimately,...Marblehead really has no free choice,...because the future of Marblehead already is. Time is one thing.

[IntuitiveWanderer]

Sure,...without evolution, there would be no Marblehead,...and yet, without the reverse flow of forward moving things, there would be no Marblehead. Because of that,...ultimately,...Marblehead really has no free choice,...because the future of Marblehead already is. Time is one thing.

 

It takes two poles to make a field.

Edited November 23, 2014 by IntuitiveWanderer

[Marblehead]

Actually,...the perceived universe is much older,...

You don't expect me to believe all those confused thoughts, do you? There is a Marblehead because my mother and father had sex. That's it. The universe exists because Singularity could not contain itself any longer.

 

The past is gone, the now moment is here now, the future isn't here yet.

 

There are no answers, only questions.

 

Destiny is a delusion.

[Marblehead]

It takes two poles to make a field.

Germans can make fields too!

[zerostao]

i mentioned i am reading Mrs. Dalloway sometimes it helps me to read aloud

 

"It is time," said Rezia.

The word "time" split its husk; poured its riches over him; and from his lips fell like shells, like shavings from a plane, without his making them, hard, white, imperishable words, and flew to attach themselves to their places in an ode to Time; an immortal ode to Time.

 

“Still, life had a way of adding day to day”

 

“Half the time she did things not simply, not for themselves; but to make people think this or that; perfect idiocy she knew for no one was ever for a second taken in.”

 

"What a lark! What a plunge!”

 

"“Big Ben struck the half hour"

 

“For there she was.”

 

the truly tasty bits of this novel , i wont share here. but she may make an appearance of tao of a babe, yogi, and page lol

Edited November 23, 2014 by zerostao

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

Actually,...the perceived universe is much older,...but because sentient beings do see things as they are,...the future is unknown for the universe to be accurately understood. That is to say,...time is One,...evolution occurs as it does because the future already is. It is like a movie or dream, where a story leads to a conclusion. Without the conclusion, the so-called beginning would not know where to begin. One movie or one universal reality,...nearly the same thing. I am here now, because I must be, for Oneness to be One. Time is One. Not a past leading to a future,...that's not One.

 

 

Sure,...without evolution, there would be no Marblehead,...and yet, without the reverse flow of forward moving things, there would be no Marblehead. Because of that,...ultimately,...Marblehead really has no free choice,...because the future of Marblehead already is. Time is one thing.

 

Time may be one thing, but it is multi-faceted and infinitesimal.

 

Every instance of marblehead is unique and different and yet all the same, marblehead. We merely know THIS marblehead, but his future is entirely in his own hands to choose from the infinitesimal marbleheads "waiting-to-become-yet-already-are".

 

I have yet to come into the perspective of finite reality/time required to believe we have no free will.

Life is much like a movie, with endings that gives purpose to its beginnings, but it is much more like a videogame, with an infinite number of endings each player can discover from the choices they make through each incarnation.

Edited November 23, 2014 by Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan

[zerostao]

"Time may be one thing, but it is multi-faceted"

mrs. dalloway speaks to this as well. really i must say that woolf exeeded what nietzsche said

while giving heidegger, sartre, camus among others direction in their thinking.

of course the english thought she needed to be put in an asylum and given electric shock therapy...

 

i reckon i am going to have to read her other works, and i kinda hate flooding this thread with woolf but heheh

 

"Clarissa was positive, a particular hush, or sloemnity; an indescribale pause; a suspense before Big Ben strikes. There!. Out it boomed. First a warning; musical; then the hour, irrevocable. The leaden circles dissolved in the air...

creating it every moment afresh;"

[Brian]

 

Actually,...the perceived universe is much older,...but because sentient beings do see things as they are,...the future is unknown for the universe to be accurately understood. That is to say,...time is One,...evolution occurs as it does because the future already is. It is like a movie or dream, where a story leads to a conclusion. Without the conclusion, the so-called beginning would not know where to begin. One movie or one universal reality,...nearly the same thing. I am here now, because I must be, for Oneness to be One. Time is One. Not a past leading to a future,...that's not One.

 

 

Sure,...without evolution, there would be no Marblehead,...and yet, without the reverse flow of forward moving things, there would be no Marblehead. Because of that,...ultimately,...Marblehead really has no free choice,...because the future of Marblehead already is. Time is one thing.

The position that it is just a movie playing itself out seems incongruous with the frequent ranting about particular groups of people who should be forced to change their ways/beliefs.

 

Which is it, I wonder?

 

 

 

(But not much, honestly -- it's more of a rhetorical question...)

[Nungali]

Germans can make fields too!

 

Over here it takes 8 poles to make a field

 

[IntuitiveWanderer]

Or 5 hay bales!

 

[Marblehead]

Over here it takes 8 poles to make a field

And again I must keep my mouth shut. Hehehe.