The Confessions of Nat Turner

[manitou]

I just wanted to share an interesting observation I made about myself recently. I suspect that this may ring a chime with others here too.

 

I work on myself a lot. Because I've been a 12-stepper for 33 years, the tendency to look inward and remove unwanted characteristics is now automatic. I've made a lot of progress and been able to stay sober from alcohol for 33 years.

 

But there is one area which seems to run very deep within me, a very unwanted trait. There is something inside me, when I see an African American male, that quivers just a bit. It's fright, and it's in there good. It's only a momentary thing, I can immediately sidestep it - but it is an irritant to me that it is there at all. I want to love all my brothers as myself - this has become the focus of my life to some degree - and it has had me puzzled as to why this should still be there. Granted, I was brought up by a bigoted Los Angeles policeman - but that doesn't explain the fear that can creep up.

 

But it came to me the other day, out of the blue. When I was 18 or 19 years old I read The Confessions of Nat Turner, a book written in 1967 - a really scary book to be read by an impressionable young girl. (It's a quite graphic book about the thoughts and actions of a slave who hated white people (women in particular). The book is filled with his thoughts about what he wanted to do to white people - how he wanted to rape white women, kill them, whatever - it was a terrifying book.

 

Well, no wonder that stupid fear is there! I've done some work to try and get rid of this instantaneous vibration of fear - I attended a black Baptist church for several months a little while ago - my intent was to get to know some nice black people, men in particular, that would assuage this fear within me. It was kind of a nice experience until I finally couldn't take the Baptist thing any longer. I still support the church to the tune of $200 a month, so they can at least keep their lights on.

 

But since discovering the source of my unwanted fear, I suspect I'm going to have to order the book, reread it with different eyes (those of an old woman who has been through a lot in life as opposed to the eyes of an impressionable young girl brought up in the whitest area of Califoria). I suspect I should then ceremonially bury the book out in the forest somewhere.

 

I can't think of anything else to do. Any suggestions?

[iain]

Hello Manitou,

Congratulations on your commendable efforts and honesty with both your self and with us here. I think what you are doing is a very good start, but also that this thought is manifesting due to a very real femanin instinct; that of protection.
Your cultural background will be also responsible for this knee jerk, three generations prior to your own self are to be considered when contemplating such things as experiances, it is inherent.
That which you are doing is conducive to ironing out this wrinkle for future generations; so just don't perhaps ask for the reasons whys, they may have been in the lives of your ancestors, simply keep with it and know that what you are doing is good.

We are born with these inherent memory's, they are not our fault; we should neither act upon them nor hide from them, especially when they are of this kind, if they are not of any use in our current existence for well being then they may well be detrimental instead.

Phobias of many things install them selves in this way over generations it is part of our defence mechanism of inherent memory; those are my thoughts upon your situation.

Kind regards.

Edited November 18, 2014 by iain

[manitou]

Your words ring absolutely true - thank you so much, Iain.

 

Sometimes I think the white population in the U.S. has never fully accepted the fact of equality. I can't help but think that there is, within us, a deep lying guilt about having kidnapped and enslaved an entire group of people, and this has never been dealt with here in the U.S.....even if it was our distant ancestors. And I would guess most of us have distant ancestors who were in one way or the other involved in the horrible practice of slave trading or plantation living. In my particular case,my ancestors in the late 1600's and 1700's actually built slave trading ships out of Newburyport, Massachusetts.

 

I am guessing that there is a part of all of us U.S. caucasians who feel that we are 'due what we deserve' in regards to all this - and this debt to the black population has never been paid. I feel like this is an undercurrent that is so subtle we don't know it's there. Perhaps this is why the Caucasians have always done their best to keep the black man down (not at an individual level, but I'm speaking of a collective level).

 

All I know is that I don't want it. I don't want a fear of any sort, and this qualifies as a fear, albeit subtle and temporary. All I can do is try to bend this fear One Day at a Time as situations arise.

[iain]

Imagine the undercurrents in the UK, there are entire city's built with the money from the slave trade; it was not so long ago either; We have gone from being led by Aristocratic Monsters to Industrial monsters by way of a Human meet market, and if you attend a history lesson in any "civilised" school you will hear nothing of it, as such it surprises us that those at the top, in the industrial world are high risk takers, with a very low capacity for empathy ... (in the Occident, perhaps not else where).

There is a real need to remember, at the very least, three generations behind us; to plan for the next three who follow, if we are to get a handle upon this dynamic. Most people are so self obsessed that they don't realise that the immediate "Self" spans several generations; so great is the degradation of family "the pack" perhaps better put the village. This social entropy will I think reveal our true nature; if we all keep working on it we can only go collectively in a better direction ...

I sinseerly hope that you find the peace that you seek manitou; sounds to me that you are going about it in a very good way that energy in the gut is only static, you can channel it I am sure, well you are doing so here.

Edited November 19, 2014 by iain

[manitou]

Iain, what a kind soul you are.

 

No, I never thought about the UK having the same genesis as the U.S. did. I guess it's more visible to me over here because we see so much of the aftereffects of the vast quantity of Africans being brought here to do the work.

 

And we live with this every day of our lives. Every single day, every one of us derives the benefits of what the slaves built. And every single day, we can also see the results of what we did to an entire population. they were given nothing but a plantation system in which to live, and this resulted in dependence on the plantations. There are many strands of this dependence carrying over into the present day - and this is the very thing that many resent them for. The descendants of the slaves who have found their own true strength and independence are a thing of beauty to behold. And no doubt extra-strong because of their difficult heritage, both ancestral and immediate.

 

I know what you mean about the 3 generation thing, forwards and back. Limiting it to 3 generations would probably explain one's immediate traits or tendencies. (And this includes 3 to the future as well, if you throw in the concept of quantum physics, use the space/time dimension, and realize that when an atom is smashed in a Hadron collider, the resulting particles (although they've lost no mass!) have a trajectory not only in the present, but into the past and FUTURE as well! Jeez, how can this be, other than the illusion of our linear-thinking brains seeing all things happening in a sequence of linear time?

 

But as it is all Here and Now, I suspect that one could go much further than 3 generations in both directions to find more subtle influences. And grand societal influences, such as the one we're talking about here, must extend from the seeming beginning to the seeming end. And yet, all happening Now.

 

I guess this plays on my mind more here in Ohio than when I was living in California, the 'left coast'. This part of Ohio is stuck in time; there is much social stratification here on a fairly small scale, and it really jumps out at you. We have the country club set in town, with their noses truly in the air - all the way to families whose entire lives were tied up in the steel mills and pottery factories; and now both of these industries are dead in this area. There is true blight on East End, which is where the Baptist church is.

 

Guess I just never gave it this much 'personal' thought before, Iain. It's in my face daily here; and coincidentally, since I've lived back here in Ohio, I've had some fun with our family's genealogy, which resulted in the breath-taking discovery of the slave ship builders from the 1700's in the family.

 

It's just all so Here and Now. I guess this is where I'm supposed to be, and there are things that I see that need to be shaken up or dislodged within my own psyche.

 

Your mention of high risk taking and lack of empathy is an interesting juxtaposition. To get to the point of high risk taking, one would necessarily have to squash those parts of himself that are vulnerable (the empathetic parts). Good observation, IMO!

[eye_of_the_storm]

"every one of us derives the benefits of what the slaves built."

Does that include Irish slaves?

 

From 1641 to 1652, over 500,000 Irish were killed by the English and another 300,000 were sold as slaves. Ireland’s population fell from about 1,500,000 to 600,000 in one single decade. Families were ripped apart as the British did not allow Irish dads to take their wives and children with them across the Atlantic. This led to a helpless population of homeless women and children. Britain’s solution was to auction them off as well.

During the 1650s, over 100,000 Irish children between the ages of 10 and 14 were taken from their parents and sold as slaves in the West Indies, Virginia and New England. In this decade, 52,000 Irish (mostly women and children) were sold to Barbados and Virginia. Another 30,000 Irish men and women were also transported and sold to the highest bidder. In 1656, Cromwell ordered that 2000 Irish children be taken to Jamaica and sold as slaves to English settlers.

more at http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-irish-slave-trade-the-forgotten-white-slaves/31076

 

British children?

 

During the 19th century working-class children were often employed in factories and on farms. For many families, it was more important for a child to bring home a wage than to get an education. The combination of dangerous working conditions and long hours meant that children were worked as hard as any adult, but without laws to protect them. Children were cheaper to employ than adults, and easier to discipline. http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/pathways/citizenship/struggle_democracy/childlabour.htm

 

Taxation? Debt Slavery to International Banks? etc

Psalm 2:8 KJV Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

Psalm 2:9 KJV Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

 

Isaiah 49:23 KJV And kings shall be thy nursing fathers, and their queens thy nursing mothers: they shall bow down to thee with their face toward the earth, and lick up the dust of thy feet; and thou shalt know that I am the Lord: for they shall not be ashamed that wait for me.

 

Jewish views on slavery are varied both religiously and historically. Judaism's religious texts contain numerous laws governing the ownership and treatment of slaves. Texts that contain such regulations include the Tanakh (Hebrew Bible), the Talmud, the 12th century Mishneh Torah by noted rabbi Maimonides, and the 16th century Shulchan Aruch by rabbi Yosef Karo. The original Israelite slavery laws found in the Hebrew Bible bear some resemblance to the 18th century BCE slavery laws of Hammurabi.^[1] The regulations changed over time. The Hebrew Bible contained two sets of laws, one for Canaanite slaves, and a more lenient set of laws for Hebrew slaves. From the time of the Pentateuch, the laws designated for Canaanites were applied to all non-Hebrew slaves. The Talmud's slavery laws, which were established in the second through the fifth centuries C.E.,^[2] contain a single set of rules for all slaves, although there are a few exceptions where Hebrew slaves are treated differently from non-Hebrew slaves. The laws include punishment for slave owners that mistreat their slaves. In the modern era, when the abolitionist movement sought to outlaw slavery, supporters of slavery used the laws to provide religious justification for the practice of slavery.

I was reading from an old Irish poet Aindrias Mac Marcais:

Gan gaire fa ghniomhradh leinbh ...

There is no laughter at children's doings. Music is prohibited, the Irish language is in chains.

Destruction of indigenous European peoples + traditions... going back 2000 odd years... forgotten

Loss of people + destruction (+rewriting) history/ knowledge + culture, slavery

Typically at the hands of Monotheists (in large scales)

//

Sex slavery of European women... ongoing (in particular East-Euro)

The Arab slave trade was the practice of slavery in the Arab world, mainly in Western Asia, North Africa, Southeast Africa, the Horn of Africa and certain parts of Europe (such as Iberia and Sicily) beginning during the era of the Arab conquests and continuing through the 19th century.^[1] The trade was focused on the slave markets of the Middle East, North Africa and the Horn of Africa. Slaves were of varied race, ethnicity, and religion.^[2]

During the 8th and 9th centuries of the Fatimid Caliphate, most of the slaves were Europeans (called Saqaliba) captured along European coasts and during wars.^[3] Historians estimate that between 650 and 1900, 10 to 18 million people were enslaved by Arab slave traders and taken from Europe, Asia and Africa across the Red Sea, Indian Ocean, and Sahara desert.^[4]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_slave_trade

 

 

Slavery in Spain can be traced to the times of the Greeks, Phoenicians and Romans. In the 800s the Muslim Moorish rulers and local Jewish merchants traded in Spanish and East European Christian slaves. Christian Spain began to trade slaves in the 1400s and this trade reached its peak in the 16th century.

Christian slavery in Spain

During the Al-Andalus period of Spain, in what is also known as Moorish Iberia, there was significant Muslim control over much of the Iberian peninsula or what is now Spain. The Moors (Iberian and North African Muslims) imported white Christian slaves into Muslim Spain in varying degrees from the 8th century until the Reconquista in the late 15th century. The slaves were exported from the Christian section of Spain, as well as Eastern Europe by Jewish slave traders, sparking significant reaction from many in Christian Spain and many Christians still living in Muslim Spain. The Iberian peninsula served as a base for further exports of slaves into other Muslim regions in Northern Africa.^[4]

 

 

Slavery In Africa

Multiple forms of slavery and servitude have existed throughout Africa during history and were shaped by indigenous practices of slavery as well as the Roman institution of slavery (and the later Christian views on slavery), the Islamic institutions of slavery, and eventually the Atlantic slave trade.^[6] Slavery existed in parts of Africa (like the rest of the world) and was a part of the economic structure of some societies for many centuries, although the extent varied.^[6]Ibn Battuta who visited the ancient kingdom of Mali in the mid-14th century recounts that the local inhabitants view with each other in the number of slaves and servants they have, and was himself given a slave boy as a "hospitality gift."^[7] In sub-Saharan Africa, the slave relationships were often complex with rights and freedoms given to individuals held in slavery and restrictions on sale and treatment by their masters.^[8] Many communities had hierarchies between different types of slaves: for example, differentiating between those who had been born into slavery and those who had been captured through war.^[9]

"The slaves in Africa, I suppose, are nearly in the proportion of three to one to the freemen. They claim no reward for their services except food and clothing, and are treated with kindness or severity, according to the good or bad disposition of their masters. Custom, however, has established certain rules with regard to the treatment of slaves, which it is thought dishonourable to violate. Thus the domestic slaves, or such as are born in a man’s own house, are treated with more lenity than those which are purchased with money. ... But these restrictions on the power of the master extend not to the care of prisoners taken in war, nor to that of slaves purchased with money. All these unfortunate beings are considered as strangers and foreigners, who have no right to the protection of the law, and may be treated with severity, or sold to a stranger, according to the pleasure of their owners."

Mungo Park, Travels in the Interior of Africa v. II, Chapter XXII – War and Slavery.

In many African societies, there was very little difference between the free peasants and the feudal vassal peasants. Enslaved people of the Songhay Empire were used primarily in agriculture; they paid tribute to their masters in crop and service but they were slightly restricted in custom and convenience. These non-free people were more an occupational caste.^[4]

Slavery in African cultures was generally more like indentured servitude, although in certain parts of sub-Saharan Africa, slaves were used for human sacrifices in annual rituals, such as those rituals practiced by the denizens of Dahomey.^[10] Slaves were often not the chattel of other men, nor enslaved for life.^[11]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Africa

 

 

In a fascinating essay reviewing this controversy, R. Halliburton shows that free black people have owned slaves "in each of the thirteen original states and later in every state that countenanced slavery," at least since Anthony Johnson and his wife Mary went to court in Virginia in 1654 to obtain the services of their indentured servant, a black man, John Castor, for life.

And for a time, free black people could even "own" the services of white indentured servants in Virginia as well. Free blacks owned slaves in Boston by 1724 and in Connecticut by 1783; by 1790, 48 black people in Maryland owned 143 slaves. One particularly notorious black Maryland farmer named Nat Butler "regularly purchased and sold Negroes for the Southern trade," Halliburton wrote. http://www.theroot.com/articles/history/2013/03/black_slave_owners_did_they_exist.html

Edited November 19, 2014 by eye_of_the_storm

[iain]

Glad that you find some resonance in my words manitou, they are founded in the knowledge of my guru to whom I bow in gratitude for the little so far that I have learnt. But also steeped in some very heavy experiences.

 

The three generation are important when reading charts, patriarchal and matriarchal lineages both have their own strong characteristics and wisdom as we know from yin and yang; there are also mind born children to consider as reference to those who teach us rather than our blood relations; it is quickly a very complicated tapestry one that I am not yet fully qualified as a Jyotisha to comprehend, but avidly learning.

Mirrored today, as the only the Universe can, by modern epigenetic analysis. When we think of past lives we always tend think of some famous figure or the distant past; but it is best that we start out by looking very much closer to home, for the truth of the matter.

This is why I based upon the figure of three generations, it is also a Hindu custom to pay homage to the past generations as such, not materially by way of a tomb, but mentally; spiritually.

If we don't we end up with crazy short destructive patterns as modern psychiatry is now discovering.

 

The future and the past are AUM; but that is a whole other chapter.

[manitou]

The future and the past are AUM; but that is a whole other chapter.

 

I'd love it if you'd expand a bit on the AUM-ness. I'm assuming you're saying past, present, and future are all emanations of the original AUM sound, the vibratory expression. Is that what you're talking about? This certainly merges the past slavery condition with the present; but hopefully mankind will en masse reach the conclusion that ALL must be included in the upper trajectory of human existence, not just SOME. The arrogance and influence of our wealthy predominately white leaders (in this country) must certainly be leveled at some point, if this dynamic follows the dictates of nature.

 

The fact that science has quantified this through the above mentioned quantum physics excites me greatly - like philosophy and science meeting at the top of the hill, although both came up different paths.

[IntuitiveWanderer]

Personally, I always take my intuition seriously by default, and it is wise to do so.

 

 

Here is what the Bhavagadgita has to say on such matters as conflict and suffering:

 

"To him who was thus overwhelmed with pity and sorrowing, and whose eyes were dimmed with tears, Madhusudana spoke these words:

 

The Blessed Lord (Krishna) said:

' In such a crisis, whence comes upon thee, O Arjuna, this dejection, un-Aryalike, disgraceful and contrary to the attainment of heaven?

 

Yield not to unmanliness, O son of Prithâ! Ill doth it become thee. Cast off this mean faint-heartedness and arise, O scorcher of thine enemies!'" - Chapter 2 of the Bhavagad Gita, Swami Swarupananda translation (1909)

 

"I do not see anything to remove this sorrow which blasts my senses, even were I to obtain unrivalled and flourishing dominion over the earth, and mastery over the gods."

 

" Having spoken thus to the Lord of the senses, Gudâkesha, the scorcher of foes, said to Govinda, "I shall not fight," and became silent.

 

To him who was sorrowing in the midst of the two armies, Hrishikesha, as if smiling, O descendant of Bharata! spoke these words.

 

The Blessed Lord said:

 

'Thou hast been mourning for them who should not be mourned for. Yet thou speakest words of wisdom. The (truly) wise grieve neither for the living nor the dead.

 

It is not that I have never existed, nor thou, nor these kings. Nor is it that we shall cease to exist in the future.

 

As are childhood, youth, and old age, in this body, to the embodied soul, so also is the attaining of another body. Calm souls are not deluded thereat.

 

Notions of heat and cold, of pain and pleasure, are born, O son of Kunti, only of the contact of the senses with their objects. They have a beginning and an end. They are impermanent in their nature. Bear them patiently, O descendant of Bharata.'" -Chapter 2 of the Bhavagad Gita, Swami Swarupananda translation (1909)

 

Here is a link to the text for those interested: http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/sbg/sbg07.htm

Edited November 19, 2014 by IntuitiveWanderer

[manitou]

Hi, IntuitiveWanderer - I so understand what you're saying. That true liberation comes when no feelings arise when the object contacts the senses.

 

This puts us humans in a bit of a quandary, I think. I could dwell on my own liberation, liberating myself from feeling anything toward those less fortunate. Perhaps that would be the truly wise thing to do.

 

On the other hand, did not even Quan Yin turn her back on Nirvana and reach back to those who still suffer? This is an enigmatic problem, if you ask me.

 

As long as there is something that motivates me to lend an assist to those in need, I think it wiser to follow that calling; but you may be right. Perhaps it is my own lack of enlightenment that causes me to still entrench myself in this situation - at this point, sending a check to the church each month.

 

But it even says in the Tao - (paraphrased, depending on translation) - that there are two ways of 'knowing' something - from the inside (wherein we are entrenched) and from the transcendent, where the whole forest can be seen in its entirety and where no emotions are involved. I'm not sure that the Tao prefers one to the other - I think it's our choice.

 

So here I am, sitting on the horns of an enema, lol. To entrench, or to transcend? I am capable of both. It just seems like there's so much work to be done toward true equality in this country, that I can't live with myself if I just sit back.

 

We live in a world of Action, but we can also choose Disengagement.

 

Welcome to this wonderful forum, by the way! I can see that you are going to be a marvelous addition!

Edited November 19, 2014 by manitou

[iain]

That would be my pleasure manitou,

AUM is the primordial vibration as you have mentioned which passes though every thing, explained in some Tantra (doctrine) such as sarada tilika tantrum; it is stated that all manifests by way of śabda tanmātrā (sound), as the the first of the pañca mahābhūta to emerge from the the vibration of this tanmātrā; tanmātrā is essentially the same thing as a sub atomic particle.

The effect of this vibration passes through every thing, as a wave of energy.

A = Brahma the creator.
U = Viṣṇu the sustainer.
M = Rudra/śiva the destroyer.

This can be shown also as Goddesses for wealth and knowledge still as AUM; just another manifestation of the same. This tradition is highly non-linear in, its construction which can be a little difficult to understand when we are from occidental decent in which every thing has to have a linear truth.

A = Bramha = Self = Rajas = ka
U = Viṣṇu = Father = Sattva = ā
M = Rudra = Child = Tamas = la

Kāla = time

The Trines in the chart can be seen in this light the ascendant as being Rudra, the 5th house knowledge and children, the 9th house showing the father or dharma. The 7th house shows us śiva and is really a reflection of the ascendant, in ways our idolisation of spouse or partner that we often seek the image of our self.

As an indication of generations in the chart, we consider as such: the Ascendant is the present or now, the 5th house the future and child generations, the 9th house past and our parents generations. Consequent generations are reflected in further application of specific techniques; So on and so forth.

At any moment this is all infinitely interconnected but is held back for our own limited minds to comprehend.
Time emerges for us at a much later stage than AUM.

We are all fully accountable for what we do, how that manifests is infinitely complicated, but we can gimps it through reflection. Many of those families descendant from the slaves in America are now in very different places from those of their families in Africa perhaps some much better relativly; humans have been enslaving each in recent history as common practise The brits have enslaved by the romans etc etc. Money to my mind gives the more dominant amongst us today, the power to do the same now indirectly; this is linked to the 2nd house and the 6th house of enmity servitude and wealth (consequently also the 10th of work) which all represent the earth trine. Very much the domain of Kubera, who's chariot is pulled by men.

But the same link to vibration.

I hope that this gives you some idea of the depth of the concept. Please forgive me my brief, rather limited explanation.

Edited November 19, 2014 by iain

[IntuitiveWanderer]

Thanks for the warm welcome manitou.

 

 

Empathy and the desire for safety (peace, although I think it is slightly naive to call forced peace safe) is a typical feminine aspect so it is perfectly natural.

 

Wisdom lies in ballance and morality lies in harmony, but harmony cannot exist without discord, thus we live our whole lives in conflict. My body is constantly decaying and falling apart, I must eat to maintain harmony (act moraly), thus I must slay plants or/and animals thus creating discord within their system which is imoral from their subjective experience but not imoral from a global perspective since the cicle of nature is the cicle of life and death (which maintains the material biosphere), history also represents the cycle of life and death (of civilizations, which begets His story). The cycle of imorality and moraity, immorality begets morality and morality begets immorality.

Some call it Hell, others call it Heaven, It is neither.

 

 

(need to learn to stop compulsively editing after posting )

Edited November 19, 2014 by IntuitiveWanderer

[manitou]

Iain - your explanation is comprehensive for our purposes here. To personalize the concept, or simplify it, by the usage of Bramha, Visnu, and Rudra/siva is a nice anthromorphic framework, capable of humans to relate to for understanding that which is not very comprehendible with our linear minds.

 

This is why the quantum physics thing is saying virtually the same thing - that collided particles will manifest to the past, present, and future. I can understand this impossible concept through the concept of a time warp in the space-time dimension, where perhaps time folds over itself, or at least metaphoric wormholes are in play. Or take the Dao De Ching - all emanates from the One (once that has manifested from the Dao) and the 10,000 things arise in time and space. But in reality, you could look at it backwards, leave the 10,000 things, and revert to the One, and the intent which came before it. It is by having the ability to shift our perspective as needed that the whole enchilada can be viewed by one with vision, eliminating Time from the equation.

 

 

IntuitiveWanderer - you can hardly refer to 7 edited posts as being compulsive, lol. Wait till you've hit about the 200th edited post. It's funny how concepts continue to evolve in our minds even after we've written them down - the moment we walk away from the computer, the mind seems to collect all the little particles that tweak what we've just written toward a more clarifying truth. I'm just glad we've got the Edit key. I've 'edited' posts that were no more than 5 or 6 words to begin with!

[manitou]

"every one of us derives the benefits of what the slaves built."

 

Does that include Irish slaves?

 

 

 

British children?

 

 

 

]

 

I would suspect that it does in that frame of reference, if the populous thereafter derived benefit from their work product. Why not?

 

Your point is well taken - much slavery throughout time and around the world, different groups affected. However, I am dealing with what is in front of me now, that's all. I seem to have developed to a point where I'm unwilling to take what they've done for granted, as I did for so many years.

[IntuitiveWanderer]

I would suspect that it does in that frame of reference, if the populous thereafter derived benefit from their work product. Why not?

 

Your point is well taken - much slavery throughout time and around the world, different groups affected. However, I am dealing with what is in front of me now, that's all. I seem to have developed to a point where I'm unwilling to take what they've done for granted, as I did for so many years.

 

This is quite interesting, I would like to ask a few question regarding this issue:

 

When the slave trade began, did the Americans go to Africa, deep into the jungle and kidnap the poor men, women and children?

And if so, how could they do it, how could they survive: 1. The horible natural dangers and 2. The great african warriors who knew the jungle as the back of their hand and also knew self-defense?

 

Also, did only individuals with white skin own slaves, or were there also individuals with skins of other colors who owned slaves? (not that skin color matters, I am not a RACIST..God forbid)

Edited November 19, 2014 by IntuitiveWanderer

[manitou]

 

This is quite interesting, I would like to ask a few question regarding this issue:

 

When the slave trade began, did the Americans go to Africa, deep into the jungle and kidnap the poor men, women and children?

And if so, how could they do it, how could they survive: 1. The horible natural dangers and 2. The great african warriors who knew the jungle as the back of their hand and also knew self-defense?

 

Also, did only individuals with white skin own slaves, or were there also individuals with skins of other colors who owned slaves? (not that skin color matters, I am not a RACIST..God forbid)

I see your point, but I'm not sure what you're getting at. No, of course the preponderence of white men didn't go deep into the continent; they had to rely on those already within the continent to satisfy their aims. But in my view, this doesn't lessen the deed. The Intent of the capture of men and women from Africa was no doubt born within the minds of the aggressive new-worlders, intent on populating the new world and creating a new society. The fact that they were able to bribe some tribesmen and chiefs in Africa, for example, was merely a means to an end. Sure, you could cast aspersions on the Africans who sold out their brothers for a few trinkets. But they were caught up in their own human-ness, the desire to possess things they didn't already have, which the slavers offered.

 

I'm not putting down the entire white race; I merely see a dynamic that continues to play out in our lifetimes; I see the evolution of the human race as ultimately reverting to the One, as it says in the TTC. This being the case, and if this is really so, then these separations and stratifications within society are going to have to be resolved at some point in time. I'm not sure that merely Accepting the fact that these things have happened in the past, continue to happen, and will continue to be for some time.

 

I believe the responsibility that we have in the U.S. today is to help those who have been behind the 8-ball for generations come up to a level of equality - with both opportunity and equity. When you look at how well the top 1% is doing as compared to the growing blighted areas within our cities, the contrast is getting more visible every year. It really warms my heart when I see a truly wealthy one with a social conscience - a Ted Turner, a Warren Buffet, a Bill Gates.

 

Just to stand by in our enlightened state and say 'it is as it should be, because this is the way it is' doesn't hold much water in my view. I think balance comes in here too. I can't do much, really.I am just one little old lady. But I can take the steps that my heart tells me are necessary when a situation presents itself to me.

 

Do you think Gandhi was less than enlightened because he decided to take action? Should he have let things be, just knowing in his enlightened spirit that all is just an illusion? It seems to me that when the heart speaks, we must listen. This too is part of enlightenment. We do seem to be temporarily thrust into this World of Action, after all. Must be a reason for it. My personal understanding is that this Logos, whatever you want to call it, is evolving through humanity in addition to through nature. Evolution does seem to involve action.

Edited November 19, 2014 by manitou

[eye_of_the_storm]

Gandhi is not who you think he is

Addressing a public meeting in Bombay on Sept. 26 1896 (CW II p. 74), Gandhi said:

Ours is one continued struggle against degradation sought to be inflicted upon us by the European, who desire to degrade us to the level of the raw Kaffir, whose occupation is hunting and whose sole ambition is to collect a certain number of cattle to buy a wife with, and then pass his life in indolence and nakedness.

In 1904, he wrote (CW. IV p. 193):

It is one thing to register natives who would not work, and whom it is very difficult to find out if they absent themselves, but it is another thing -and most insulting -to expect decent, hard-working, and respectable Indians, whose only fault is that they work too much, to have themselves registered and carry with them registration badges.

http://www.trinicenter.com/WorldNews/ghandi4.htm

You appear to be selective in what crimes happened throughout history and who was responsible.

When it comes to the crimes of others you dismiss them as being irrelevant or due to their "humanness"

Apparently "white people" are to be held to a higher standard and judged more harshly for the same crimes others all over the planet have been committing since aeons.

Who are "white people" ? you seek to annihilate "white people" (under the guise of "One") because of the actions of the British government/ a handful Merchants/ International Bankers?

People such as Alan Greenspan Chairman of the Federal Reserve of the United States from 1987 to 2006.?




... 99% of "white people" being as enslaved physically and mentally (Judeo-Christianity + Mass Media) at different times... today with debt slavery, heavy taxation + sex slavery of East-European women in the Middle East

You said:

I'm not putting down the entire white race; I merely see a dynamic that continues to play out in our lifetimes; I see the evolution of the human race as ultimately reverting to the One, as it says in the TTC. This being the case, and if this is really so, then these separations and stratifications within society are going to have to be resolved at some point in time.

 

This is just a subtle way of advocating genocide of all peoples. Do you believe all birds should become "One" ? What a dull world that would be...

I am not sure about the obsessions with "oneness", reminds me of the Borg and hive minds.

"Resistance is futile" .... "You will be assimilated" haha

Nature from my observation has been becoming more complex, more diverse, more colorful ...

Yet you speak of a regression of the creative powers of nature to create some "utopian" nothingness, without distinction... something like the moon or other dead planet without distinction you may find homely (oneness, without distinction) ... a "humanity" similar to the "grey aliens" (maybe that is the future you are working towards)

Which is communist ideology whose ideals are the destruction of tradition, culture, family etc (government becomes the family etc) peoples in general... the purpose being uprooted peoples, peoples without an identity are easily controlled/ enslaved... a tree without roots will fall. Communism is a Capitalistic system, funded by Wall Street etc.

Communism has killed 200+ Million odd people globally to achieve its "perfect world" ... each time a total nightmare.

Cultural Marxism pervades mass media and "education" ...

Yuri Bezmenov ex KBG agent called it subversion/ psychological warfare

Edited November 20, 2014 by eye_of_the_storm

[manitou]

Interesting perspective, Eye of the Storm - thanks for your input. I am commenting on what is in front of me, and the little that I can do about it.

 

If you've not read the Tao Te Ching, do. It will tell you that the action of the Tao is reversion.

[eye_of_the_storm]

Thanks Manitou

Hmm, I have read the Tao Te Ching some years ago in full.

I don't recall reversion precisely

I do like aspects of it... "He who conquers himself" etc what good leadership is etc.

I am more toward eternal progression, an infinity of creative expression and individuality, I enjoy the vibrancy of Nature and its many forms and the evolution of these forms ... rather than a regression or "return" ... it may be like an adult human wishing to return to its mothers womb... I can't see this as natural/ desirable... maybe it is some spiritual fear to leave the nest.

For me the Tao, is tapping into our own infinite potential/ Consciousness ... this is being in "the flow" ... which allows great creative expression/ manifestation/ physical feats.... rather than return to the seed consciousness we become a tree of consciousness...development... in nature the givers of life desire for their offspring to be healthy and powerful a progression of themselves.

Individuality within community/ culture/ nature/ environment/ though - the consideration of the greater being.

Perhaps team sports are a good example, a team is made up of individuals with certain strengths/ weaknesses etc and the teams plays those advantages to their overall success.

The team also has to know their environment to be successful / natural laws

Then we have humanity as a team. In which I believe the best expressions of the "individuals" peoples should be celebrated as part of the vibrancy of life each having something unique to contribute.

Edited November 20, 2014 by eye_of_the_storm

[iain]

Iain - your explanation is comprehensive for our purposes here. To personalize the concept, or simplify it, by the usage of Bramha, Visnu, and Rudra/siva is a nice anthromorphic framework, capable of humans to relate to for understanding that which is not very comprehendible with our linear minds.

 

This is why the quantum physics thing is saying virtually the same thing - that collided particles will manifest to the past, present, and future. I can understand this impossible concept through the concept of a time warp in the space-time dimension, where perhaps time folds over itself, or at least metaphoric wormholes are in play. Or take the Dao De Ching - all emanates from the One (once that has manifested from the Dao) and the 10,000 things arise in time and space. But in reality, you could look at it backwards, leave the 10,000 things, and revert to the One, and the intent which came before it. It is by having the ability to shift our perspective as needed that the whole enchilada can be viewed by one with vision, eliminating Time from the equation.

 

 

IntuitiveWanderer - you can hardly refer to 7 edited posts as being compulsive, lol. Wait till you've hit about the 200th edited post. It's funny how concepts continue to evolve in our minds even after we've written them down - the moment we walk away from the computer, the mind seems to collect all the little particles that tweak what we've just written toward a more clarifying truth. I'm just glad we've got the Edit key. I've 'edited' posts that were no more than 5 or 6 words to begin with!

This model serves as an axiom, we find this flow in many aspects of life which are very tangible.

 

The wave form created by the flow of prana/chi through time is that which give shape to events. Such as knee jerk reactions rising from the sub concious. Take Physics as an example of one wave form of this energy exchange. If those who hold the body of knowledge do not like a new idea it creates contention thus the śiva/rudra given for future. Rudra means red he who crys, śiva is the destroyer.

 

Yet it is śiva that destroys ignorance ... it is the idea that descends into the minds of future generations when it is stimulated by the process; Thus it can be a future effecting the present.

 

We can easily see that when this energy becomes blocked or does not flow or "breath" smoothly there is room for a lot of misdirection. When, for example, applied to the earth trine we see greed and slavery emerge rather than the flow of knowledge. Knowledge is of the same process that creates these pangs of intuitive fear, and can be harnessed to transfer knowledge though time; as we can clearly see in the verbal vedic tradition; this essentially is dharma.

 

Something that is greatly lacking in a civilisation that enslaves others to reign; a sure sign of adharma, but the ways of karman are intangible.

Edited November 20, 2014 by iain

[iain]

I am unsure as yet to what I think of teaching the population to fight individually so as to preserve their own integrity; using the very real advantage of foresight and speed; It would certainly insure that one is not enslaved.

The jury for me is out on this at the moment.

Edited November 20, 2014 by iain

[IntuitiveWanderer]

@manitou

 

I agree with almost everything you said except that I disagree with the term "spiritual evolution", for the following reasons:
1. because it implies that the Will of the Absolute is blind and purposeless and 2. it implies that what is happening
is not in perfect synchronization with the whole, as a Calendula in bloom, but is simply random. A more beffiting term would be "Completion", the completion of man.

As the great Edmund Burke once said: "Man is not a finished creation."

We are moving towards the point in which the finite rejoins with the infinite, towards the completion in a design of delicate nobility and exalted beauty, the most wondrous of works, the culmination of Reason!
As the Son embraces the Father through the guidance of the Holy Spirit, thus dost man transcend himself, merging once more with the Divine.

Who could oppose such a beautiful ideal? What blind and brutish beast would do violence against this?
Only vulgar and abysmally ignorant collectives such as the far right, who use deceptive populist rhetoric in their propaganda, which is aimed specifically at the unthinking masses and naive youths, while in their inner circles they speak of RaHoWa, the "racial holy war", fantasizing of massive bloodshed, in accordance with the 14th chapter of their guidebook, projecting their madness upon the world, in the form of crazed violence.

Indeed, only a malicious madman or a foolish peasant who cannot see beyond the length of his nose would stand in oposition to the ideal of fair proportion and holistic harmony, the ideal of Completion.

If one is sincere, then everything is clear. History follows the logical path toward its conclusion.... Rta.


"I, that am curtailed of this fair proportion,
Cheated of feature by dissembling nature,
Deformed, unfinished, sent before my time
Into this breathing world, scarce half made up,
And that so lamely and unfashionable
That dogs bark at me as I halt by them—
Why, I, in this weak piping time of peace,
Have no delight to pass away the time,
Unless to see my shadow in the sun
And descant on mine own deformity."

- William Shakespeare, Richard iii: Act 1, Scene 1

 

 

 

 

...just wanted to get this off my chest.

Edited November 20, 2014 by IntuitiveWanderer

[manitou]

IW - your choice of the word Completion is a very good one indeed. It is better than evolution, you are right in my opinion.

 

I'm of the opinion that because all is Here and Now, that this whole scenario has played out already; we humans just need to observe it in linear time, but the Completion has already happened. It's as though we humans are the creator itself, or at least the perceptive part of it - an assumption because I don't really know how perceptive a bear or a lion or a tree is - however my assumption is that we are the most expressive part of the Dao, in this particular reality at least.

 

But for some reason the process requires witnesses, and we seem to be it. My personal hunch is that mankind is Completed when we return to being the gods we once were - when we're capable of seeing through the illusion and wearing our true inheritance of power and knowledge like an individually tailored suit.

 

But this won't happen by accident. Those that work for it will attain it. When I was young, I recall telling people that I felt like a 'stick in the ocean', just being pulled every which way and reacting in whatever fashion my emotions exploded. Over the years and with inner work, (finding my own angers and fears), my emotions no longer explode.

 

It's almost as though one can look through the eyes of the Dao and see that we are all straw dogs; although from a human point of view, to be looked at as straw dogs wit love for all. I don't think the Dao cares one whit which one of us lives or dies, or at what age. We are vessels for the eternal spirit, and what difference does the date of our death make? None, IMO. But for our purposes here on earth as part of this entire process of Completion, loving our brothers as ourselves seems to be the key to getting this planet back on track. And to love the environment as well and see the Mother for being the living thing that she is.

Edited November 20, 2014 by manitou

[doc benway]

I can't think of anything else to do. Any suggestions?

 

First I would like to say how lucky we are to have such a sensitive, courageous, and open member among us.

 

 

I suspect that part of this is related to your own life experience in your work, in addition to your conditioning and the traumatic experience of reading the book at an impressionable age. I also think that a part of the problem is the subliminal and explicit conditioning you've been subjected to in the mass media throughout your life. Whether we "believe" or even subject ourselves to the media, it is constantly rubbed into us at all levels of awareness in our daily lives and it is well proven that subliminal messaging is extremely effective, as is hypnosis.

 

In terms of what steps to take, re-reading the book sounds like a great idea.

 

Another approach that I have been taking is that of acceptance and commitment - Accept what is there as a part of who you are, like it or not, agree with it or not it simply is - honor that - it is just an ornament of the wholeness. Commit to your core values of who you want to be and live that, regardless of the feelings and thoughts as they come up and attempt to interfere. That part of you is, however and from wherever it came. It's OK - it's just a little piece of the puzzle that, when seen from a distance, is absolutely perfect.

 

When we try to analyze, reject, and change our emotional responses and thought patterns in an active way, we generally fail. That seems to be because the one trying to make the change is the problem itself. When we observe it, accept and embrace it as a part of who we are in an open and naked way, it already has changed. When I say accept I don't mean condone or enjoy but rather, don't reject - I like the word allow. When I say in an open and naked way, I mean to look at it not with the perspective of pain, embarrassment, self criticism but rather without judgement, without aversion, just see it for what it is - a fleeting thought or emotion, a protective mechanism - possibly misguided, inherited as a part of our conditioning, genetics, who knows. Whatever it is, it is not who you are, it is transient. I have a few things like that - horrible thoughts that come and go, they can be quite distracting and distressing. I think acceptance is the most effective approach to lessen it's effect and allow it to fade... at least for me. And in accepting that, we remain completely free to make choices consistent with our values.

 

I know that you already know all of what i am saying but hopefully it will be of some value anyway...

[manitou]

Steve - your kind and honest words ring in my heart. Yes, I am trying to be gentle with myself on this, but I also want to take the steps to remove the root of a very deep weed. I guess all I can do is know that I have the Intent to do this, that my higher self will bring the occasions to me which will ultimately lead to the removal.

 

Thank you so much. Everyone.