Slim Posted November 21, 2014 Hi CoolBreezy, my suggestion is don't worry about if Daoism is a religion or philosophy. If it resonates with you then dive in and see what it has to offer. Before the twentieth century the Chinese language didn't even have a word for religion. Religion and philosophy are Western labels based on a Western experience. I would suggest throwing them out and approaching this stuff on its own terms. After a time you might even throw out the term Daoism. "The Daoism that can be spoken of is not the real Daoism" (sorry couldn't help it ) 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
doc benway Posted November 22, 2014 When my teacher, who is a Daoist from Taiwan, bows to the shrine, makes offering of fruits and incense, prays, and so forth it looks quite like religion to me. Daoism is religion for those looking to it for that. It is philosophy for those looking to it for that. It is a method of personal cultivation for those looking to it for that. It is what you want from it but can't be limited by what you or others think it is. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taoist Texts Posted November 22, 2014 It is what you want from it but can't be limited by what you or others think it is. Wishful thinking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wishful_thinking Wishful thinking is the formation of beliefs and making decisions according to what might be pleasing to imagine instead of by appealing to evidence Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted November 22, 2014 Wishful thinking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wishful_thinking Wishful thinking is the formation of beliefs and making decisions according to what might be pleasing to imagine instead of by appealing to evidence While I won't argue with the basic definition I think it is unfair to use the word "instead". Wishful thinking can include evidence, rationality and reality. However, Tao is all inclusive. Why should we ignore aspects of Tao just because someone else does? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dust Posted November 22, 2014 Before the twentieth century the Chinese language didn't even have a word for religion. I don't know how true this is. Do you, for certain? The modern word for religion in Chinese is 宗教 -- 宗 appears on the Oracle Bones, and refers to worshiping and sacrificing to one's ancestors in a temple. And there have, for a long long time, been words in Chinese such as "worship", “sacrifice", "obedience", "spirit", "God", and a bunch of others that are inextricably linked to the idea of religion as we think of it in the West. I'd note that in the TTC, there isn't a single suggestion for people to worship, sacrifice, be obedient, etc, but that at the time Laozi was first gaining popularity, religious behaviour as described above was most certainly prevalent in China. So, I'd suggest that there very much has been a difference between philosophical Taoism and deity-worshiping Taoism, and that it's been fairly clear who was whom for some centuries! However, I agree with your general point that it doesn't really matter all that much Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taokuoh Posted November 22, 2014 Thanks for all your help, but what is the difference between Taoism and Daoism? Are they both the same words? Or are they words to separate the Western and Eastern world? Like the word Daoism sounds like a word the Western world would use. Many people in the West seem to prefer to believe that what is written in the tao te ching is some sort of complete work of 'Taoist' thought that existed in that time period, but there is no real reason to assume such a thing. Haha reminds me of that Tao text: "The Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taokuoh Posted November 22, 2014 Hi CoolBreezy, my suggestion is don't worry about if Daoism is a religion or philosophy. If it resonates with you then dive in and see what it has to offer. Yup, exactly what I'm doing. Believe it or not I was interested in Taoism from the Tao Te Ching book, but the main reason was the inspired wisdom from mainstream films showing Taoism. I've felt like I have always somehow been connected with something like this, whether its spirituality I don't know. For example most of the text I read comes under what I am actually like. Personality wise; calm, relaxed, not worrying about the future, and I've always been caring and generous etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NotVoid Posted November 22, 2014 (edited) Thanks for all your help, but what is the difference between Taoism and Daoism? Are they both the same words? Or are they words to separate the Western and Eastern world? Like the word Daoism sounds like a word the Western world would use. Hi CoolBreezy. The difference between Tao, Taoism, and Dao, Daoism is that they are all valid spellings, but using different transliteration systems to convert from Chinese to Latin alphabet characters. Tao and Taoism are the spellings derived using the Wade Giles transliteration system, which was often used in older texts, and Dao and Daoism are using the Pinyin transliteration system, which seems to be more commonly in use these days. Pinyin is commonly used to convert from the Mandarin pronunciation of Chinese to the Latin alphabet. Edited November 22, 2014 by NotVoid 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taoist Texts Posted November 23, 2014 (edited) I'd note that in the TTC, there isn't a single suggestion for people to worship, sacrifice, be obedient, etc, That very well could be true but what about chpt 60? 60 道德經: 治大國若烹小鮮。以道蒞天下，其鬼不神；非其鬼不神，其神不傷人；非其神不傷人，聖人亦不傷人。夫兩不相傷，故德交歸焉。 Dao De Jing: (Occupying the throne) Governing a great state is like cooking small fish. Let the kingdom be governed according to the Dao, and the manes of the departed will not manifest their spiritual energy. It is not that those manes have not that spiritual energy, but it will not be employed to hurt men. It is not that it could not hurt men, but neither does the ruling sage hurt them. When these two do not injuriously affect each other, their good influences converge in the virtue (of the Dao). Edited November 23, 2014 by Taoist Texts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dust Posted November 23, 2014 Yees I saw your post just now and wondered if spirits etc might be brought up. There's ch.6 too, with the valley spirit. I'll reply about ch.60 in the TTS forum when I've woken up a bit! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted November 23, 2014 Yees I saw your post just now and wondered if spirits etc might be brought up. There's ch.6 too, with the valley spirit. I'll reply about ch.60 in the TTS forum when I've woken up a bit! You leave my Valley Spirit alone!!! I have already commented to that in the Ch 60 thread. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taokuoh Posted November 23, 2014 Hi CoolBreezy. The difference between Tao, Taoism, and Dao, Daoism is that they are all valid spellings, but using different transliteration systems to convert from Chinese to Latin alphabet characters. Tao and Taoism are the spellings derived using the Wade Giles transliteration system, which was often used in older texts, and Dao and Daoism are using the Pinyin transliteration system, which seems to be more commonly in use these days. Pinyin is commonly used to convert from the Mandarin pronunciation of Chinese to the Latin alphabet. Oh right I see, well I'm going to keep using Tao and Taoism as I prefer to use those words instead of Dao and Daoism. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rara Posted November 24, 2014 Yeah the next book I will be reading will be either "The Tao of Pooh" or "Tao: The Watercourse Way" unless you have any other suggestions? I have already read Tao Te Ching as well, and that's the only Tao text I have read. Tao is Pooh will be great for you. Westeners describing the eastern mindset is tough but the author does it well! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spotless Posted November 24, 2014 (edited) Religion in general is a place for many to be exposed to higher vibrations. As one enters the path one no longer feels a need for religion. Religion itself is not a path, it is part of the sleep but it can help to gather us within and gravitate to The path. As we set upon the path we recognize religion as a lie so to speak, but a forgivable one. Religion is set in any belief - all belief is religion - religion is a position. As you set upon the path you are for the most part unwittingly setting out upon a path to destroy your beliefs. When you Awaken you will know that you know nothing - yet knowing will come to you with great certainty and when you need it. Edited November 24, 2014 by Spotless 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
doc benway Posted November 24, 2014 Wishful thinking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wishful_thinking Wishful thinking is the formation of beliefs and making decisions according to what might be pleasing to imagine instead of by appealing to evidence Rather than simply criticize the opinion of others, why not offer one of your own? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michael Sternbach Posted November 24, 2014 I define Daoism and other metaphysical systems as just that... Metaphysics. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
