Being slow or fast: being who you are

[johndoe2012]

I am coming to an understanding now of the various things I have experienced on the spiritual path; maybe some will find it useful.

 

The thing is it is not until recently that I really just said what I felt like saying due to patterns in my childhood.

 

The political correct self was there censoring and controlling in such degree I would call it masochistic.

 

This masochism extended to spiritituality in various forms: I should develop quickly, not slowly and quickly erasing all patterns that I could find in myself.

 

The exercises I did, I feel now, were violent in nature and not necessary in development of a relaxed self.

 

I no longer believe in the efficacy of Chinese exercises or energetic interventions. The problem with energetics is the stirring up of issues in the psyche which it is not ready to handle: at least this is how it has appeared to me. This has been an ongoing issue for the last three years.

 

There is no true understanding of the underlying issues: human development from birth to childhood, transitioning to teenager and then adulthood.

 

The reason of the issues is not touched upon. Everything is just blown to pieces; who cares.

 

Buddhist philosophy is not necessarily any better. So far I have seen shamatha-vipassana being heralded as better than sliced bread. But then there are the issues of the dark knight which most ignore and some see as necessary.

 

So then we can ask: are these philosophies truely good for you or are you in yet another abusive relationship?

 

I found out recently that my body liked being slow. Going for a walk, drinking a cup of tea. Feeling truely good about myself without having any external concept like high vibration, concentration skill from meditation or being spiritually developed.

 

Any skill or development is not good for you if they result in trauma along the way.

 

How to gauge whether you have found home in a teacher / teaching / person? One that opens you up naturally, accepting who you are and is interested in what is good for you not some external fantasy like humanity, energetic neutrality or other bullshit concepts which have nothing to do with you.

 

What I have found so far, is everybody likes to be open, relaxed and joyful. Is a lot of pain and trauma necessary to get there? I don't think so.

 

Lately I have been opening up to a lot of people: we have a good time, they feel good and I feel good. Nothing else is really necessary.

[Flolfolil]

...

Edited March 5, 2015 by Flolfolil

[dawei]

I am coming to an understanding now of the various things I have experienced on the spiritual path; maybe some will find it useful.

 

The thing is it is not until recently that I really just said what I felt like saying due to patterns in my childhood.

 

The political correct self was there censoring and controlling in such degree I would call it masochistic.

 

This masochism extended to spiritituality in various forms: I should develop quickly, not slowly and quickly erasing all patterns that I could find in myself.

 

The exercises I did, I feel now, were violent in nature and not necessary in development of a relaxed self.

 

I no longer believe in the efficacy of Chinese exercises or energetic interventions. The problem with energetics is the stirring up of issues in the psyche which it is not ready to handle: at least this is how it has appeared to me. This has been an ongoing issue for the last three years.

 

There is no true understanding of the underlying issues: human development from birth to childhood, transitioning to teenager and then adulthood.

 

It is about time someone had the gumption to start such a topic... it is long over-due

 

My feeling is that too many know this point and let it pass (with some discomfort)... and looked back and saw it again (with a smile)... akin to $hit happens kind of feeling...

 

I do agree that the exercises and interventions are stacked for a cultural disposition, it is but a cultural-alignment relative to esoteric/shaman/spiritual teachings... of which our own 'patterns' have much deviated (or no normalcy of) from...

 

I saw this first hand in my Tai Ji classes... I went to a 'western' class but the Taiwan teacher asked me later to attend a 'chinese' class... I went. The entire class was taught in chinese but what I found was two profound things:

1. I didn't really need to know the language as that was just a description and order to follow this movement or that movement.

2. There was a cultural difference in the teaching; those learning were assumed to be in sync with a certain pathos... and that pathos defines many things... too many to describe now...

 

Another great idea came to me from someone far more progressed... and on the brink of death... he had a terminal decease which Taiji prolonged for 10 years... He washed away his western political life (truly a politician) for the esoteric eastern way... I benefited from him discussions and insights into this topic.

 

His mantra was: "HEAL SELF FIRST"... He often exclaimed this as the first Daoist Invocation... I often stumbled around this meaning as I didn't need any 'healing' but I knew his condition and felt this was his interpretation/meaning... later I understand his meaning... it is worth repeating:

 

"HEAL SELF FIRST"

 

-- John... dead... yet alive...

[johndoe2012]

Thanks everyone.

 

I agree with the heal self first.

 

Due to guilt and many other things I wanted to be a healer but basically I prefer having a good time letting things be as they are.

 

The understanding unfortunately arises afterwards : too late.

 

It will take some time to recover.

 

But I can understand why people do various abusive things to themselves. That's how life has been presented to them.

 

One good thing coming out of this is my relationship to other people has been improved.

 

Maybe Daoism / Buddhism has a place but I think our Western patterns coming from other people and society makes this very difficult.

[dawei]

Due to guilt and many other things I wanted to be a healer but basically I prefer having a good time letting things be as they are.

 

The understanding unfortunately arises afterwards : too late.

 

It will take some time to recover.

 

But I can understand why people do various abusive things to themselves. That's how life has been presented to them.

 

I had the same path... and realization...

 

That's how life has been presented to them.

[Bearded Dragon]

I like that approach as a baseline. Then on top of that it's helpful to be in undesirable situations as much as is helpful in regards to chipping away the negative reaction. Sometimes the difference between trauma and refinement is merely having the desire to be in the situation for refinement purposes.

[johndoe2012]

Yes Bearded Dragon.

 

Does anyone know how to cool one's head?

 

The open crown makes things very difficult.

[dust]

Good stuff.

 

This masochism extended to spiritituality in various forms: I should develop quickly, not slowly and quickly erasing all patterns that I could find in myself.

The exercises I did, I feel now, were violent in nature and not necessary in development of a relaxed self.

I no longer believe in the efficacy of Chinese exercises or energetic interventions. The problem with energetics is the stirring up of issues in the psyche which it is not ready to handle: at least this is how it has appeared to me. This has been an ongoing issue for the last three years.

There is no true understanding of the underlying issues: human development from birth to childhood, transitioning to teenager and then adulthood.

The reason of the issues is not touched upon. Everything is just blown to pieces; who cares.

 

I agree, I think.

 

The thing is, what you describe here is secondary teaching. Not things that were taught in the Laozi or Zhuangzi.

 

All this cultivation stuff... well, it has its benefits, I think, at least physically. But it is something created by later generations of 'Taoists' who completely -- either willfully or by accident -- misunderstood, and misrepresented, what these 2 books were saying. It's actually right there, if one cares to look at it honestly:

 

TTC 20: "Have done with learning, and you will have no more vexation."

 

TTC 47: "Learning consists in daily accumulating; the practice of Tao consists in daily diminishing."

 

TTC 64: "He who fusses over anything spoils it. He who grasps anything loses it. The Sage fusses over nothing and therefore spoils nothing. He grips at nothing and therefore loses nothing."

 

TTC 71: "Only when we are sick of our sickness shall we cease to be sick. The Sage is not sick, being sick of sickness; this is the secret of health."

 

ZZ 刻意: "Ingrained ideas and a high estimate of their own conduct; leaving the world, and pursuing uncommon ways; talking loftily and in resentful disparagement of others - all this is simply symptomatic of arrogance [...] The sage is entirely restful, and so (his mind) is evenly balanced and at ease. This even balance and ease appears in his placidity and indifference."

 

It's because people feel the need for grasping at more knowledge, for self-criticism and even self-abuse, for believing that they must be sick, that they follow certain teachings. The old ones knew that this is nonsense.

 

 

Buddhist philosophy is not necessarily any better. So far I have seen shamatha-vipassana being heralded as better than sliced bread. But then there are the issues of the dark knight which most ignore and some see as necessary.

So then we can ask: are these philosophies truely good for you or are you in yet another abusive relationship?

 

As with Daoist philosophy: the longer Buddhism has had to develop, the more teachings one has to learn. Go to the simplest few teachings, and I think they can be beneficial.

 

 

Or, perhaps, these abusive teachings have guided you to learn all this. Perhaps they've taught you that there is nothing to learn.

[johndoe2012]

Dusty,

 

That's true.

 

I also feel the true teaching at least for me is a more natural way of seeing myself and others.

 

I guess something in me has given up a certain worldview, that something is wrong.

 

Thanks.

[dust]

No need to thank..I'm just selfishly defending the teachings of Laozi

 

It seems that you've come upon something good and satisfying, and if that's the case, perhaps you need no books at all (other than ones you read purely for enjoyment).

[MooNiNite]

i feel like im in the same boat

Edited November 28, 2014 by MooNiNite

[doc benway]

Beautiful post Chris.

I hope you don't mind if I share some thoughts.

 

I am coming to an understanding now of the various things I have experienced on the spiritual path; maybe some will find it useful.

 

The thing is it is not until recently that I really just said what I felt like saying due to patterns in my childhood.

 

The political correct self was there censoring and controlling in such degree I would call it masochistic.

 

This masochism extended to spiritituality in various forms: I should develop quickly, not slowly and quickly erasing all patterns that I could find in myself.

 

The exercises I did, I feel now, were violent in nature and not necessary in development of a relaxed self.

 

I no longer believe in the efficacy of Chinese exercises or energetic interventions. The problem with energetics is the stirring up of issues in the psyche which it is not ready to handle: at least this is how it has appeared to me. This has been an ongoing issue for the last three years.

 

There is no true understanding of the underlying issues: human development from birth to childhood, transitioning to teenager and then adulthood.

 

The reason of the issues is not touched upon. Everything is just blown to pieces; who cares.

 

Buddhist philosophy is not necessarily any better. So far I have seen shamatha-vipassana being heralded as better than sliced bread. But then there are the issues of the dark knight which most ignore and some see as necessary.

 

So then we can ask: are these philosophies truely good for you or are you in yet another abusive relationship?

One perspective on this is that one's relationship to and experience of these teachings resides in oneself, not in the teachings.

Whether they seem abusive, helpful, distracting, traumatic... someone else participating to the same degree may have a wholly different experience and outcome. Like the same person may be a loving mother to some, a sexy temptress to another, a miserable partner, a rebellious daughter, and a demanding boss to yet another...

 

Another perspective that I like to quote is from Peter Fenner -

'If i didn't do what I didn't need to do, I wouldn't know that I didn't need to do it.'

 

 

I found out recently that my body liked being slow. Going for a walk, drinking a cup of tea. Feeling truely good about myself without having any external concept like high vibration, concentration skill from meditation or being spiritually developed.

I think this is a sign of insight, of maturity, of real progress.

When you get to the other side of the river, you no longer need the canoe... put it down and move on.

 

 

Any skill or development is not good for you if they result in trauma along the way.

Not sure I agree with this.

I don't mean to say that we are obligated to subject ourselves to trauma but many of us must pass through some dark times and experiences to grow. In general the trauma is already in oneself and is not so much caused by but simply brought to light by many of these practices. Can we be completely comfortable with ourselves without baring and experiencing these traumas... maybe for a while but eventually they do tend to surface or affect us unaware which for me is even less desirable.

 

Another quotation I'm attached to by Anthony DeMello - 'Pleasant experiences make life delightful, painful experiences are opportunities for growth."

One can't master martial arts without getting hit, or cook well without tasting.

One can't be truly comfortable with oneself without awareness of who that is.

 

 

How to gauge whether you have found home in a teacher / teaching / person? One that opens you up naturally, accepting who you are and is interested in what is good for you not some external fantasy like humanity, energetic neutrality or other bullshit concepts which have nothing to do with you.

So important to understand this and so fortunate if one has the opportunity to experience this - I did and it was a game changer for me. Although it may not always feel natural for all people and one's relationship with the concepts may be useful in the beginning and useful later if one is to try and pass it on to others. Many of us are so wrapped up in concept and intellect that it is the only way to connect and create a little opening. At some point, concepts are superfluous. But the absolutely critical point is that it must relate to you, to me... and it must ultimately brings us to the point of recognition and acceptance of who we are and stability in that.

 

 

 

What I have found so far, is everybody likes to be open, relaxed and joyful. Is a lot of pain and trauma necessary to get there? I don't think so.

 

Lately I have been opening up to a lot of people: we have a good time, they feel good and I feel good. Nothing else is really necessary.

Again, once we are there, we often have the feeling that perhaps all of the suffering wasn't needed.

Like when Krishnamurti says, "Truth is a pathless land." But would we have gotten there without the pain, without the time spent on the paths that didn't lead anywhere but to where we already have always been? How can we know? How many have gotten there without any instruction, any time "wasted" on "unnecessary" things?

 

Alan Watts says that the master is the one that indulges your fantasies about what you think is necessary to get somewhere you think you need to be, all the time chuckling quietly, smiling knowingly, with affection, and waiting for you to open your eyes and recognize that you've always been there.

 

I wonder if any of us can help each other to wake up or it simply happens when the causes and conditions are right...

 

This is why I treat it as a most precious blessing when it occurs for it is a rare thing of beauty, it is nothing one needs to gain, and yet one has no idea how it has come.

 

_/\_

[johndoe2012]

Thanks Steve.

 

Yes the teachings were always about myself not others. I think this is probably the most difficult part to accept.

 

I still have some old patterns popping up that refuse to accept how things are.

 

I will read the rest of your post and let the words sink in.

[TzuJanLi]

When the mind falls silent and still, 'you' integrate with the happening as it happens, that is 'who you are'.. and, you are the collective experiences organized into the mindscape that realizes that.. 'you' are the totality, fast/slow, high/low, one/many.. experienced in accordance with where you choose to place your awareness..