Darwinist beliefs in the 7th century Tibet

[Marblehead]

Hey Marbles ... have people been thinking I just post random silly stuff ...

 

and not insightful cryptic multi-level puns relating to what they have written ?

Hehehe. That might be worthy of consideration.

 

Yeah, you do come off the wall some times but then so do I so who am I to say anything about it?

[Marblehead]

Ahhh ... I see ... it went to the pit ....

 

< chases it >

I'm glad you found it.

[Taomeow]

Nungali,

 

English differentiates between "monkey" and "ape" but Tibetan might not -- colloquial Russian certainly does not. To be on the safe side of the whole monkey business, I used "simian" -- but Tibetans might use "monkey" to mean "simian," as Russians do. The Chinese use "old mouse" to mean "rat." Doesn't mean they don't know the difference, and moreover, they somehow know a rat from a mouse of advanced age. All context-dependent languages find solutions to the nonlinear nature of their morphology by different methods. English is not as context-dependent, so it has to strive for cleaner morphology, but those verbal clean-ups affect its genesis mythology only in the minds of the creators and recipients of the myths. In reality no one knows exactly what it was humans originated from -- if it was anything at all. I mean, really. No one.

 

So, if that was your only objection, switching languages removes it in its entirety. (Whatever removed it to the pit must have been a misreading of your intent I'm guessing. If it's any consolation, what I thought was a very funny visual illustration of my lack of piety toward the "scientific method" also got removed.)

Edited December 1, 2014 by Taomeow

[Apech]

Darwin didn't actually use the term evolution very much (I think once in Origin) he spoke of natural selection. And he certainly didn't posit the idea of superiority. Those illustrations of stooping apes leading to upright man are a distortion. His model was more like a tree branching out in all directions with some of the branches withering because they don't meet the conditions of the environment. So mankind is actually just a primate adapted to the conditions on the planet. We are not descended from apes or monkeys but we have a common ancestor with them.

 

There's an argument though that once human beings began to control or at least alter their own environment and also care for the vulnerable which nature would have killed ... we stepped outside the sphere of natural selection.

 

As a matter of interest the Sakya clan in Tibet believe themselves descended from celestial beings.

 

 

The History of Sakya begins with a race of celestial beings having descended from the Clear Light heavens in the Realm of Form to take up residence in the snow mountains of Tibet for the benefit of living beings. This was ten generations before the arrival of Guru Padmasambhava. At this time they were known as Lha Rig. After eight generations, due to a dispute with a Yaksha leader, the Lha Rig also became known as the Khon which means 'dispute' or 'strife.' In 750 A.D. the Khon family became students of Guru Rinpoche Padmasambhava receiving especially the Vajrakila empowerment. A Khon son received novice monk ordination from Shantirakshita at Samye Monastery, becoming one of the first seven monk translators in all of Tibet. For the next thirteen generations (750-1073), the Khon family was a central pillar of the Nyingma School in Tsang Province

Edited December 1, 2014 by Apech

[eye_of_the_storm]

I agree with the descended from celestial beings theory

Aether > Air > Fire > Water > Earth

Now we have to go

Earth > Water > Fire > Air > Aether

Natural selection makes more sense... minor changes in comparison

Evolution as Apech notes "apes leading to upright man are a distortion"

We have seen no evidence in support of this

No other creature has repeated this... not that there is anything to repeat... other than micro adaptions?

The timelines don't work

+ what government would want people to understand their celestial origins... that would be too empowering...

...

hmm there are a number of examples of life spontaneously appearing... in extremely hostile environments..as if from "nowhere".

Like bacteria growing in nuclear reactors... or something

Edited December 1, 2014 by eye_of_the_storm

[Marblehead]

... "apes leading to upright man are a distortion"

 

We have seen no evidence in support of this

 

No other creature has repeated this... not that there is anything to repeat... other than micro adaptions?

You have not done your research.

 

Look at the findings resulting from the discovery of the fossils of Lucy and Ardi.

 

Present day some gorillas have been known to walk upright and they do it all the time when walking in water. Chimps, when excited and in a hurry will often run on their hind two legs.

 

No, man did not descend from apes - we are apes. Sure, we walk upright. A baby moves on all four until it learns how to walk upright just like a chimp. They even look like a chimp in their movements.

 

No, we are not alien beings. We evolved right here on Earth from "lower" forms of animals. We would be more advanced today had it not been for the dinosaurs who ruled the planet for so many millions of years. Or maybe we would have already killed ourselves off - hating ourselves and each other into extinction.

 

But then it has been said the men are from Mars and women are from Venus. Maybe that's why we don't understand each other very often?

[eye_of_the_storm]

Bears, dogs, elephants and other are capable of walking on 2 legs

Edited December 1, 2014 by eye_of_the_storm

[eye_of_the_storm]

Edited December 1, 2014 by eye_of_the_storm

[eye_of_the_storm]

Why the disconnection in languages too... you would think with similar origins there would be a global shared language or similar...some connection

how is it that any bird of the same kind anywhere in the world sings the same song? or builds the same nest, or has the same dance

[Marblehead]

Why the disconnection in languages too... you would think with similar origins there would be a global shared language or similar...some connection

Yeah, that's a different situation. Vocal cords and all that. But I don't have enough knowledge to speak to it.

 

how is it that any bird of the same kind anywhere in the world sings the same song? or builds the same nest, or has the same dance

There actually is variation here within species. I watched something recently where a certain species of whale changes its songs every year. And we know that dolphins can do some really neat things with their languages.

[Taomeow]

We didn't begin to care for the vulnerable, Marblehead, we stopped caring for the vulnuerable -- the children of the species. The human baby is born more helpless and dependent, and stays so for longer, than the young of any other species. A chimp baby, although a lot better adapted to early independence, spends all its first year on the mother's body, and the next three years, most of the time. It is the only way for the simian kind to learn a real non-disconnected relationship with life -- not in the head but systemically -- via caring physical contact, interconnectedness, direct-input experience of feeling safe and protected in space and time, things about gravity, motion, energies of the world, and closeness with another being. It is the way they learn love. We are what we are because our babies spend their imprinting, early-developmental years differently, while having similar, only greater, needs. The "disconnect" Eye-of-the-storm is talking about happens at birth. This is unsound whether from the POV of evolution or natural selection or what have you -- this can only make sense if humans are supposed to serve something or someone other than humans, since our child-rearing practices do not serve the human species.

[Nungali]

Nungali,

 

English differentiates between "monkey" and "ape" but Tibetan might not -- colloquial Russian certainly does not. To be on the safe side of the whole monkey business, I used "simian" -- but Tibetans might use "monkey" to mean "simian," as Russians do. The Chinese use "old mouse" to mean "rat." Doesn't mean they don't know the difference, and moreover, they somehow know a rat from a mouse of advanced age. All context-dependent languages find solutions to the nonlinear nature of their morphology by different methods. English is not as context-dependent, so it has to strive for cleaner morphology, but those verbal clean-ups affect its genesis mythology only in the minds of the creators and recipients of the myths. In reality no one knows exactly what it was humans originated from -- if it was anything at all. I mean, really. No one.

 

So, if that was your only objection, switching languages removes it in its entirety. (Whatever removed it to the pit must have been a misreading of your intent I'm guessing. If it's any consolation, what I thought was a very funny visual illustration of my lack of piety toward the "scientific method" also got removed.)

 

 

Okay ... thanks

 

Now I am wondering about the origins of the other 'half' ?

[Nungali]

Darwin didn't actually use the term evolution very much (I think once in Origin) he spoke of natural selection. And he certainly didn't posit the idea of superiority. Those illustrations of stooping apes leading to upright man are a distortion. His model was more like a tree branching out in all directions with some of the branches withering because they don't meet the conditions of the environment. So mankind is actually just a primate adapted to the conditions on the planet. We are not descended from apes or monkeys but we have a common ancestor with them.

 

yeah .... thats what I meant.

 

I have seen it written that a better analogy than a tree is a river delta; where new streams are made, change course, flow into other streams, dry up, etc. (that might be an analogy for the model developed after Darwin though.)

[Nungali]

You have not done your research.

 

Look at the findings resulting from the discovery of the fossils of Lucy and Ardi.

 

Present day some gorillas have been known to walk upright and they do it all the time when walking in water. Chimps, when excited and in a hurry will often run on their hind two legs.

 

No, man did not descend from apes - we are apes. Sure, we walk upright. A baby moves on all four until it learns how to walk upright just like a chimp. They even look like a chimp in their movements.

 

No, we are not alien beings. We evolved right here on Earth from "lower" forms of animals. We would be more advanced today had it not been for the dinosaurs who ruled the planet for so many millions of years. Or maybe we would have already killed ourselves off - hating ourselves and each other into extinction.

 

But then it has been said the men are from Mars and women are from Venus. Maybe that's why we don't understand each other very often?

 

Thats because we should relate to each other via Mercury ... not 'directly'.

 

(Ummm ... was that too cryptic and 'off the wall' again ? )

[Nungali]

Bears, dogs, elephants and other are capable of walking on 2 legs

 

 

 

 

 

'Sparkey' the bear barks like a dog!

 

(okay that was off the wall )

[Nungali]

Here is a lizard doing the Haka

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 2, 2014 by Nungali

[eye_of_the_storm]

How does long hair on the head work with the neo thing?




Or beards?

Edited December 2, 2014 by eye_of_the_storm

[Taomeow]

How does long hair on the head work with the neo thing?

 

 

 

Or beards?

 

 

 

Does not. Does not work with anything except artificial genetic modifications, in fact. It calls for haircuts (nature does not plan for these) or braiding or ponytailing (ditto) or shaving (ditto) -- in other words, without the involvement of technology you get ungroomable tangles. If you live in the forest, it will tangle and catch in the branches of the trees you climb, endangering your life -- and trees we did climb as a lifestyle of many hundreds of thousands of years, humans retain many features suggesting brachiator, tree-climbing, ancestry. If you are aquatic, technology free hair will interfere with your ability to see while swimming. If you are ice age (which is the bulk of human history on Earth), you are in need of fur all over your body rather than long hair on your head (why didn't we have the former, which would come in so handy?..)

 

Long hair can only be explained in the light of our own modern genetic experiments -- whimsical, like growing human hair (or a human ear for that matter) on the back of a mouse, or making this mouse glow in the dark (accomplished by splicing with the glowing jellyfish genes). Zero adaptive value -- in fact, predators will have a better go at mice that self-illuminate in the dark -- but "scientific curiosity" and perhaps even a morbid aesthetic sense of the scientists, coupled with our actually practiced, rather than announced, scientific method -- "we do it just because we can" -- produced many a glowing mouse with human hair on its back, and untold numbers of similar chimeras. Our long hair is better explained by some similar endeavors than by any natural developments.

[eye_of_the_storm]

Hmm interesting...

"we do it just because we can" ... yes, very frightening/ diabolic/ immature thoughts

Hmm... so human hair a result of genetic manipulation at some point...

or could it be that we didnt evolve in these environments...

Hair as it is and celestial origins making more sense ... hair being receptive to cosmic energy... hair associated with wisdom and power?

Edited December 2, 2014 by eye_of_the_storm

[Taomeow]

Hmm interesting...

 

"we do it just because we can" ... yes, very frightening/ diabolic/ immature thoughts

 

Hmm... so human hair a result of genetic manipulation at some point...

 

or could it be that we didnt evolve in these environments...

 

Hair as it is and celestial origins making more sense ... hair being receptive to cosmic energy... hair associated with wisdom and power?

 

 

 

 

 

What exactly does "celestial origin" mean? God, gods, a demiurge, seraphim, nephilim... aliens?.. Higher spirituality creating lower, via higher technology?.. Lower spirituality in possession of higher technology creating us in its image and likeness?.. which is why our technological advances surpass -- nay, squash, flatten, marginalize, exterminate -- our spiritual development?..

 

I do believe in the "as above, so below" doctrine -- and the state of affairs "below" would fill me with dread as to the state of affairs "above" even if I hadn't seen it. But I have...

 

We are a species of power abusers, that's the main thing to know about us. If all of humanity wakes up to the fact, we might make it. Otherwise we will just join the ranks of millions of species that tried it on this earth and didn't make it. Not because they couldn't adapt to their environment. But because they couldn't adapt to their environment without compromising this environment. The most deadly virus does not abuse its power the way we do -- nothing kills 100% of its hosts, but we are after precisely that whenever we deal with whatever we deem as "lower" that we think is in the way of our "progress." That's the recipe for extinction, clear and precise.

 

"Do not abuse power," the only law of the universe per my sources, means "or else," among other things. It's not abstract, it's the only way any unlimited power can work. If it is used in a way that damages its field of application, it runs out of a field of application. Doesn't matter if it's in one family or one galaxy, it's the only law we need to know -- and we as a species still haven't learned it. I'm keeping my fingers crossed -- till the end of time, or till the end of our time. But I'm also looking for a way out of this failed-species trap, that's what taoism is for...

[dust]

Does not. Does not work with anything except artificial genetic modifications, in fact. It calls for haircuts (nature does not plan for these) or braiding or ponytailing (ditto) or shaving (ditto) -- in other words, without the involvement of technology you get ungroomable tangles. If you live in the forest, it will tangle and catch in the branches of the trees you climb, endangering your life -- and trees we did climb as a lifestyle of many hundreds of thousands of years, humans retain many features suggesting brachiator, tree-climbing, ancestry. If you are aquatic, technology free hair will interfere with your ability to see while swimming. If you are ice age (which is the bulk of human history on Earth), you are in need of fur all over your body rather than long hair on your head (why didn't we have the former, which would come in so handy?..)

 

Long hair can only be explained in the light of our own modern genetic experiments -- whimsical, like growing human hair (or a human ear for that matter) on the back of a mouse, or making this mouse glow in the dark (accomplished by splicing with the glowing jellyfish genes). Zero adaptive value -- in fact, predators will have a better go at mice that self-illuminate in the dark -- but "scientific curiosity" and perhaps even a morbid aesthetic sense of the scientists, coupled with our actually practiced, rather than announced, scientific method -- "we do it just because we can" -- produced many a glowing mouse with human hair on its back, and untold numbers of similar chimeras. Our long hair is better explained by some similar endeavors than by any natural developments.

 

 

I was going to stop and leave us to simply disagree on our ideas of neoteny and evolution, but... I want to be sure. Are you saying that our hair length is somehow a result of genetic experimentation?

 

Our hair length has been allowed to increase, genetically, without danger, because over the centuries and millennia we've developed tools for cutting it.

 

Any research into the relationship between cultural perception of hair length and sexual selection should reveal that it's not down to purposeful genetic modification of any sort. Unless we consider sexual selection purposeful modification.

 

In my opinion, to put it simply, as humans evolved to appreciate particular aesthetic forms and the ability to manage our appearance by using tools, the more that one was able to do -- within reason -- to modify their appearance and thus both appear more physically attractive as well as demonstrate creativity/initiative/rejection of cultural norms/compliance with cultural norms/etc, the more desirable they would be to a potential partner.

 

This is why there is a very long history of tattooing, piercing, scarification, stretching/lengthening, and other body modification.

 

There's a wide record of tattooing in entirely separate cultures worldwide, for thousands of years. The Ainu in Japan, the more modern Japanese irezumi, various groups in what is now Burma, groups in China such as the Li, many Polynesian groups, Indian pachakutharathu, Persia, Indonesia, Egypt, various other African tribes, the Picts (aparently) in Scotland.....

 

As well as for 'healing' and to signify status or adolescence or other things, much of this tattooing has been aesthetic. I'd argue... same with hair length/style.

[dust]

We are a species of power abusers, that's the main thing to know about us.

[...]

"Do not abuse power," the only law of the universe per my sources, means "or else," among other things. It's not abstract, it's the only way any unlimited power can work. If it is used in a way that damages its field of application, it runs out of a field of application. Doesn't matter if it's in one family or one galaxy, it's the only law we need to know -- and we as a species still haven't learned it. I'm keeping my fingers crossed -- till the end of time, or till the end of our time. But I'm also looking for a way out of this failed-species trap, that's what taoism is for...

 

However, I wholeheartedly agree with you on this.

[Marblehead]

Thats because we should relate to each other via Mercury ... not 'directly'.

 

(Ummm ... was that too cryptic and 'off the wall' again ? )

Yes it do be too "off the wall" for my mind. It went right over my head. Didn't even get close to my brain.

[eye_of_the_storm]

Thanks for the responses... I'll share what I believe... for what it is worth

What exactly does "celestial origin" mean? God, gods, a demiurge, seraphim, nephilim... aliens?.. Higher spirituality creating lower, via higher technology?.. Lower spirituality in possession of higher technology creating us in its image and likeness?.. which is why our technological advances surpass -- nay, squash, flatten, marginalize, exterminate -- our spiritual development?..

Humans were immortals/gods this is spoken of also in Greek mythology ... in the time of Kronus

Zeus became jealous, humans weren't sacrificing to it... either...

From this humans go through 3 lessenings

Golden, Silver, Brazen...

From immortals to mortals ...

A conflict between gods... and as a result humans go from being gods to mortals.

Taoism also speaks of a golden age when humans were immortals

Have you seen Stargate?

Parasitic creatures called ghouls possess human bodies and enslave entire worlds... they have some extra psychic ability and technological power... with this they pretend or think themselves gods

when a civilization starts to become too advanced they wipe them out... take them back to zero, have them start over... keep them enslaved ... keep them from gaining knowledge... keep them from understanding their true origins

There are beings far beyond these parasitic entities
Like "the ancients" ... super advanced godlike humans... I can't recall why they don't directly interfer in these events

hmm

another example may be the movie Gabriel ... angelic beings come to earth, take human form... to battle the forces of darkness on this planet... to set this planet free... the angels forget who they are though... fallen angels...

The rebellion was against a false god...

these false gods would love for us to think we evolved from bacteria or that they created us... another disempowerment

These false gods are masters of illusions/ deception

I think the majority of texts on this planet are a deception of some kind, to dis-empower humanity

they don't want us to recognize our light... for them a dis-empowered human is a fuel source

to break out of this we have to become light again... at this level it is difficult to see behind the scenes... and beyond that.

I think it is important to understand that not everything you see/ visions/ thoughts are yours sometimes they come from others... there a many different beings I feel and many different realms... dark and light...

technology has been created as a distraction... another dis-empowerment... the gifts are traps ...

For example rather than humans developing telepathic abilities... they are caught in using mobile phones etc... these are like pacifiers

I do believe in the "as above, so below" doctrine -- and the state of affairs "below" would fill me with dread as to the state of affairs "above" even if I hadn't seen it. But I have...

haha.. agree... I am interested in what you have seen above if you will.

it could be that there are worlds within worlds , creations within creations

that that is only one manifestation at whatever level and not the total

I have experienced very dark places and also divine...

Earth is the same... angels and demons... heaven and hells on Earth

heavens and hells within the minds of people...

We are a species of power abusers, that's the main thing to know about us. If all of humanity wakes up to the fact, we might make it. Otherwise we will just join the ranks of millions of species that tried it on this earth and didn't make it. Not because they couldn't adapt to their environment. But because they couldn't adapt to their environment without compromising this environment. The most deadly virus does not abuse its power the way we do -- nothing kills 100% of its hosts, but we are after precisely that whenever we deal with whatever we deem as "lower" that we think is in the way of our "progress." That's the recipe for extinction, clear and precise.

 

I'll post from another thread I commented in

The human species is FINE

It is the intraspecies predators/ psychopaths that are the problem ... some question whether they are humans to begin with... lacking humanity/ or humaneness ... anyone seen "They Live"? haha

Wall Street is documented to have 10x higher rate of psychopaths than average population...

Psychopaths are drawn to power... so no surprise that positions of power are infested with psychopaths

With a Shamanic/ organic culture tradition they would be able to see the psychopaths before they took control of things...

Probably why the psychopaths have been working ages to destroy "shamanic" cultures/ intuitive/ psychic potentials

It is often that these psychopaths project their destructive nature onto the general populations... + they desire too a planet of psychopaths ... this is all the one god, one world, one government, one people nightmare ... all sparkling... how else would they sell it? psychopaths are renowned charmers

The covert chemical warfare against humanity is creating mass apathy

I was watching a dark comedy the other day... to make a long story short... the psychopath was pretending to be a doctor (maybe I should say...the doctor was pretending to be a healer..)... and to exploit the patients... who at first believed this doctor was a fraud ...were later convinced by this doctor... through psychological manipulations + false authority of "doctor" and "science/ theories... completely fraudulent/ unfounded ... convinced these people that it was indeed them who had the problem... and not the doctor... that they were delusional etc... ...and they bought it...

As... innocence expects innocence... to be like themselves... so they believe others quite openly in the beginning...trusting... the psychopaths take advantage of this good nature...

 

Our innate humanity/divinity and deep connection with Nature has been taken from us...

even from our first breath... our little developing bodies are injected with toxic waste.

continual "revolutions" etc destroying knowledge... witch hunts etc... pretty similar attacks as the ghouls...

"Do not abuse power," the only law of the universe per my sources, means "or else," among other things. It's not abstract, it's the only way any unlimited power can work. If it is used in a way that damages its field of application, it runs out of a field of application. Doesn't matter if it's in one family or one galaxy, it's the only law we need to know -- and we as a species still haven't learned it. I'm keeping my fingers crossed -- till the end of time, or till the end of our time. But I'm also looking for a way out of this failed-species trap, that's what taoism is for...

I see abuse of power for ages... I haven't seen any "or else" ... I don't think there is karma

Karma is a trap... makes people complacent

Makes people think... I don't have to do anything... justice will magically appear

What if the god we are waiting for is ourselves?

pretty effective way for evil to control persons from ever attempting to right wrongs... the Wenzi text seems pretty proactive in terms of self defense... isn't it odd that the major world religions teach people to.. turn the other cheek... to be passive... to let evil be done... to let evil occur is the righteous path... you will be rewarded in heaven hahaha...hmmm this is very suspect to me! haha

I say trust nothing on earth or not on earth... question everything...

If you see Christ or Buddha coming to you in the afterlife... question that devil

In my opinion you should be a light unto yourself... nothing can save you except you...

You have to climb that mountain on your own...

they take you away from nature... there is power in nature... nature is part of our powerbase

Nature is the true teacher... instincts/ intuition are the true teacher... so many ideologies/ philosophies shadowing your own divine natural intelligences

To the point people disregard nature completely... and believe the musings of fools with degrees as ultimate truths

//

Have you read the Ringing Cedars of Russia?

//

hmm this is a bit wild etc I think there is something vastly more complex at play though...

I hope to figure it out someday haha

Edited December 2, 2014 by eye_of_the_storm

[Marblehead]

Well, at least I enjoyed the Water Lily.