What the hell with the Tan Tien?

[sean]

I'm bummed my post got killed on the HT forum. I didn't even get a chance to read Keith's last reply. Basically I asked if the Lower Cauldron can be thought of as the space enclosed by the The Little Orbit whereas the Lower Tan Tien is more a locus of energy within that space that can be at varying locations.

 

ie:

 

Sean

[RON JEREMY]

HERE TWO THINGS OCCUR,

ONE IS A FIELD OF ENCLOSED ENNERGY, LIKE A PRESSURE COOKER, THAT'S DA MEANING OF CAULDRON.

 

BUT TWO, DA OTHER MEANING IS,

"CENTER OF BEING"

THAT MEANS, IF YA WANNA WORK IN DA TAN TIEN OR IN ANY CHAKRA YA MUST PHYSICALLY LOCATE YER CENTER OF BEING THERE.

 

IN OTHER WORDSA, IN EVVERYDAY LIFE OUR CENTER OF BEING IS MORE OR LESS IN DA HEAD, CLOSE TO DA EYES WHEN WE WATCH OR FURTHER BACKWARD WHEN WE THINK.

 

SO YA MUST GET A GRIP OVER THAT CENTER OF YERSELF N BRING IT DOWNWARD INTO DA CAULDRON THAT YA'LL BE WORKIN IN. NOW, DA EXACT SPOT WHERE YER CENTER O' BEING IS GONNA PLACE ITSELF, THAT IS DA TAN TIEN IN DA SECCOND MEANING AS OF ABOVE.

 

WHEN YA BE SUCCESSFUL IN MOVIN YER CENTER O' BEIN, THEN YA'LL SEE YER HEAD *ABOVE* YA, N YA'LL FEEL LIKE YER *I* IS *PHYSICALLY* LOCATED IN DA TAN TIEN

 

JUST MY TWO PESOS.

 

RJ

[sean]

Thanks Ron. So in a sense we create the Cauldron and the Tan Tien with our focus and intent? So instead of walking around with my shoulders up and my head forward like that guy on my home page my center of gravity will be down in my belly.

 

Here's an interesting blurb from:

http://wongkk.com/answers/ans00a/feb00-3.html

 

Question 9

I have learnt qigong for a number of years and through personal experience I have experienced the Tan Tien as 3 or 4 fingers' width below the navel and three fingers' width inside the abdomen. However, recently a number of books have stipulated that the Tan Tien is 3 or 4 fingers' width below the navel but located on the central channel or axis of the body. What is your opinion on this. Finally, I just want to tell you that I have read all your books and have found them to be most helpful.

Chee Gay, Malaysia

 

Answer 9

"Dan tian" (tan tien) literally means "elixir field". "Elixir" refers to vital energy that has consolidated into a pearl. Hence, dan tian refers to a spot in a person's body where his vital energy has accumulated into a field.

 

As a chi kung practitioner can accumulates his energy in a field at various spots in his body, there are various energy fields or dan tian. Theoretically there are countless energy fields as there are countless spots where a practitioner may choose to accumulate his energy, but in practice these energy fields are located in certain specific spots as these spots represent the ideal positions where energy should be accumulated.

 

The most ideal position for storing energy is at the qi-hai vital point or the guan-yuan vital point, which are respectively two "inches" or three "inches' below the naval, and about two "inches" beneath the skin surface at the abdomen. The "inch" here is neither the Chinese inch nor the British inch, but a biological inch, which is the distance between the first and the second joints of the right index finger of the person in question.

 

Qi-hai means "sea of energy", and guan-yuan means "gate of origin". They are so named because when a person relaxes totally, his energy, if it is flowing well, will naturally accumulate at qi-hai; it was from guan-yuan that his original energy first blossomed into his life-long growth.

 

Every person obtained his (or her) original energy from his father and mother. Realizing this fact, anyone with some human sense will be kind to his parents. Only those who do not even have cow-sense will consider his conceptual moment, which was both beautiful and sacred and which produced his original energy, as an unfortunate accident.

 

The qi-hai dan tian or the guan-yuan dan tian is called the abdominal dan tian, to be distinguished from other dan tian, but because it is the most important, when the term "dan tian" is mentioned without any qualifying prefix, it usually refers to the abdominal dan tian. You are right in saying that the dan tian is about 3 or 4 fingers' width below the naval and beneath the skin, as 2 or 3 biological inches is about 3 or 4 fingers' width.

 

Other dan tian include the top dan tian at bai-hui and tian-mu, the middle dan tian at tan zhong, the low dan tian at hui-yin, the back dan tian at ming-men and ling=tai, the hand dan tian at lao-gong and the foot dan tian at yong-chuan. Apart from the hand and the foot dan tian, the other dan tian are located along the ren mai and the du mai, or the conceptual meridian and the governing meridain.

 

Instead of (or after) circulating energy flow along the ren mai and the du mai, the break-through of which is called attaining the Small Universe (or micro-cosmic flow), many Taoist cultivators accumulate their energy in fields along the axis of the body, i.e. the perpendicular from the base of the spine at hui-yin to the top of the head at bai-hui.

 

Between these two bottom and top energy fields are two lower and middle energy fields, known respectively as huang-ting (yellow palace) and chong ting (central palace). The huang-ting energy field is behind the guan-yuan energy field (the one you mentioned in your question), and the chong-ting energy field is behind the tan- zhong energy field.

[vidiami]

Just wanted to mention that in the book opening the dragon gate - the making of a modern Taoist wizard the idea seems to be that the exact location of the tan tien varies with the distance to the equator the person is living at. If this is so then the exact location for someone Chinese would be different compared to someone western and this might explain some of the variations given.

 

// Peace

[Pietro]

Just wanted to mention that in the book opening the dragon gate - the making of a modern Taoist wizard the idea seems to be that the exact location of the tan tien varies with the distance to the equator the person is living at. If this is so then the exact location for someone Chinese would be different compared to someone western and this might explain some of the variations given.

 

// Peace

 

Yes, I read, and remember that. Somwhow I am a bit skeoptical, as it was in the part of the book where the editor was writing his personal conclusion. But I find sweet that you, who say in your profile to be located in Sweden, point out that particular. Is it that you feel your tan tien to much near the sexual region: :wink:

[vidiami]

Pietro:

....well, if I ever find it, I'll let you know where it's at...it should be somewhere.. I actually didn't remember much from that book, but now I gather it must have been that the closer to the equator you are, the closer to the navel the tan tien would be. And living in Sweden it should be lower down. Like you said, that part was from the editors' own conclusions.

 

// Peace.

[MatthewQi]

The most important thing I learned about the Tan Tiens was to make them infinite. But at first, just get my awareness there and then practice expanding it out. Say as big as the room, then my town, then the earth, etc... The lower tan tien is somewhere around your navel, sense it and move on. It isn't to be hung up on or to be measured precisely. We are talking internal energetic structure not physical anatomy. Furthermore, eventually you will not need to ID with it, you blend all the Tan Tien's and there is only the core channel...

 

Peace, good to be here, and later!

[Trunk]

BUT TWO, DA OTHER MEANING IS,

"CENTER OF BEING"

THAT MEANS, IF YA WANNA WORK IN DA TAN TIEN OR IN ANY CHAKRA YA MUST PHYSICALLY LOCATE YER CENTER OF BEING THERE.

RJ

 

Yo, RJ!

 

Luckily i saved that thread b4 HT went belly up!

http://www.precisiondocs.com/~altaoism/She...Theory26252.htm

 

Trunk

[RON JEREMY]

I AM SO HAPPY TO SEE YA HERE MYMAN!!

GIVE YER INPUT AS TO HOW TO SET UP DA NEW FORUM, IN DA TECHNICAL ISSUES FORUM!

 

IN MY OPPINION, THERE BE 2 WAYS TO SHIFT DA CENTER O CONSCIOUSNESS:

1) JUST KEEP CONCENTRATTIN ON THAT SPOT FOR MONTHS OR YEARS TIL IT *JUST HAPPENS*;

 

2)THIS IS DA COOL WAY N DISPLAYS FINESSE: DA POSTULLATE IS THAT I *ALREADY* HAVE A CENTER O' CONSCIOUSNESS. WHERE IS IT? WELL FOR NORMAL PEOPLE LIKE ME N YA IS LOCATED USUALLY IN DA HEAD ANYWHERE BETWEEN DA EYES, DA THROAT N DA BACK OR TOP OF DA SKULL.

WELL, THAT'S DA BEGINNING!! THEN JUST GRAB THAT CENTER OF BEIN N SLOWLY BRING IT *PHYSICALLY* WHERE YA WANNA TRANFER IT TO!!!

IF YA DO IT RIGHT, YA *WONT* HAVE TO MEDDITATE FOR YEAR ON A REMOTE SPOT IN ORDER TO *APPEAR* THERE, INSTEAD, YA JUST *GO* THERE DA SAME WAY YA GO TO YER HOOD BAR!!!

 

SEE YA LATER TRUNK!!

BYE NOW,

 

RJ

[RON JEREMY]

BTW, THIS IS DA SAME CONCEPT AS HOW TO DO DREAM YOGA.

 

THERE BE TWO WAYS, ONE, YA BECOME CONSCIOUS IN YER DREAM,

IT WORKS LIKE THIS, YA TRY FOR MONTHS OR YEARS TO BECOME AWARE IN YER DREAMS, BY REPPEATIN TO YERSELF DURIN YER DAY OVER N OVER AGGAIN, "I AM GONNA BECOME AWARE WHEN I DREAM SUCH N SUCH CRAP".

 

EVENTUALLY, YA MAY OR MAY NOT SUCCEED, QUITE BY CHANCE. IT MAY TAKE YA AGES TO ACHIEVE IT CONSISTENTLY.

 

BUT DA SECOND WAY, (DA COOL MAHALINGAMS' WAY) IS NOT TO *HOPE* TO BECOME AWARE IN DREAM (I.E. IN A DIFFERENT PSYCHIC *PLACE*) BUT SIMPLY , TO *GO* THERE WITHOUT BREAK O' CONSCIOUSNESS.

 

SO FOR DREAMS, ALL YA HAVE TEO DO IS *TO BE ABLE TO FALL ASLEEP WHILE MAINTAININ CONSCIOUSNESS* AND VOILA' YA BE THERE!!!!!!!

IMMEDIATELY!!!! NO NEED TO TRAIN FOR AGES!!!!!!

 

RJ

[Pietro]

But then a night lasts 10 hours. GULP

[Trunk]

[RON JEREMY]

ADVANCED MONKS DONT SLEEP 10 HOURS, IN FACT, THEY HARDLY DO WHAT WE CALL SLEEP.

 

AS FOR DA REST OF US, BEIN ABLE TO SLIP INTO SLEEP WITHOUT BREAK O CONSCIOUSNESS IS A PRACTICAL SHORT TERM GOAL. AFTER A FEW DREAM-MINUTES, THEN CHANCES ARE YA'LL LOSE CONSCIOUSNESS N FALL INTO DA ANIMAL SLUMBER, BUT DA MOST IMPORTANT FOUNDATION HAS BEEN SET.

 

AMMONG OTHER THINGS, THIS TYPE OF PRACTICE TAKES A DEEPER SENSE WHEN ONE SEE IT AS A TRAINING TOWARD COSCIOUS PASSIN AWAY (LEMME TAP MY TESTICKLES HERE A-LA-ITALIAN)

 

BYE NOW,

RJ

[sean]

WELL, THAT'S DA BEGINNING!! THEN JUST GRAB THAT CENTER OF BEIN N SLOWLY BRING IT *PHYSICALLY* WHERE YA WANNA TRANFER IT TO!!!

IF YA DO IT RIGHT, YA *WONT* HAVE TO MEDDITATE FOR YEAR ON A REMOTE SPOT  IN ORDER TO *APPEAR* THERE, INSTEAD, YA JUST *GO* THERE DA SAME WAY YA GO TO YER HOOD BAR!!!

 

This is the approach I've been using and I just sort of stumbled upon it. Sometimes throughout my day I'll realize that my center and "me-ness" is all up in my head, behind the eyes as you say. And you described exactly what I do... it feels like almost physically holding on to and just moving the center quite confidently (as if you are certain you can do it) down to the abdomen.

 

It's interesting how certain changes occur most effectively when done quickly and with confidence. IMO it's a lot of what makes up the NLP stance. Doesn't always work, and it probably doesn't refine your skills the way meditating for years on slow and precise movements does, but 's a fun way to at least get the feel for what you are going for.

 

Sean.

[Trunk]

... it feels like almost physically holding on to and just moving the center quite confidently (as if you are certain you can do it) down to the abdomen.

 

It's interesting how certain changes occur most effectively when done quickly and with confidence.

 

imo, some people have some basic wiring, alchemy, etc., already in place - and so its most appropriate and effective to just do something. And, for that person, working on preliminaries is, like, "what for?". Usually, that person doesn't even know all the parts that've 'always just been there' for them. (This is often a real problem with advanced teachers, btw: they often just don't understand all the pieces that their students are missing.)

 

Some other person might have this or that piece missing, which precludes "just doing it" - and so has to work through finding that piece, finding an effective technique for that piece, and doing the work to put that piece in place.

[sean]

Ah, I've actually expressed identical thoughts before but it's been awhile I've thought on those lines. A very fruitful perspective. Everything people do routinely, wether it's conscious or unconscious, is refining a certain "skillset". Even strange things like repressing anger, generating enough anxious energy about being late for work that we get out of bed, etc., etc.. is all energy work on some level. Give someone an actual thought-out energy practice and they may appear to have natural talents/weaknesses in certain contexts, but really it's just the effects of what they've been practicing their whole lives every day.

 

One of my roles in the company I work for is actually training in website design applications. I've been using computers since I was a a little kid and so it's a similar sort of thing. I bump up against pieces missing in people's understanding that I so completely take for granted that it's a real struggle to figure out how to break it down and teach it.

[sifusufi]

While searching for techniques and answers regarding compression I stumbled upon this post that has been idle since 09 November 2004 - 08:17 PM.

 

So have a go!