what's left?

[eye_of_the_storm]

Good stuff Seeker

Thanks for sharing... good points...

Swimming against the river causes suffering? go with the flow of life = harmony and peace

I am happy you have found these things

For me health is flow of life... + life begets life... and death begets death...

When you are at peace with nature/ animals... not consuming it... greater peace will flow... as you respect life it respects you... if you fk around with Nature... it is going to be painful.

And to be at peace = to be at understanding ... so peace could also be higher reasoning?

understanding wu wei?

It is like a person with diabetes who continually eats cake.... they are working against the laws of nature... they do not have the higher reasoning/ will power to go beyond the cake... and suffer so...

If somebody just pointed this out though... do not eat the cake and you can be happy, healthy, peaceful... but even then... some will eat themselves to death... and they get angry when you question their cake

The cake is only a short term pleasure... long term consequences

When you consume the truly delicious fruits and vegetables nature provides in abundance... bliss will follow... but peoples bodies are way over stimulated and they struggle to enjoy these natural pleasures... fasting etc helps to purge these addictions and to recalibrate natural desires

Edited December 1, 2014 by eye_of_the_storm

[Seeker of Wisdom]

...Swimming against the river causes suffering? go with the flow of life = harmony and peace

...And to be at peace = to be at understanding ... so peace could also be higher reasoning?

understanding wu wei?

...

IMO the deepest level of going against the flow is how unawakened people don't accept the nature of reality... reality is self-evident but we habitually look at things in a warped way. Awakened people just see straight, free of that conflict. So that's where I see gnosis fitting in.

[C T]

 

 

you have too strong of an attachment to Buddha

 

and you believe "spirituality" is about being meek, docile, without passion

 

all these facades of what a "good/spiritual person" is

 

I know people who speak and pretend to be good... but fill their bodies with the stolen flesh and blood of other sentient creatures... demons with a smile...

 

my words are quite light in comparison to what some of the ancient sages said about similar things

 

you can be happy, peaceful, powerful and purposeful

 

maybe not in Buddhism though

 

CT doesn't believe physical healthy = happiness... ok...

 

Such a simple and immediate solution ignored...

 

Many humans want to suffer that is the truth... without that they have nothing

 

you know if the majority of people on this planet went vegetarian/ vegan there would be enough food to feed the entire planet twice over... i guess that isn't "sufficiently wholesome for the spirit." ...

 

Maybe if I just stare at a wall everything will be solved...

 

Or maybe Buddha will feed these people?

 

O Buddha I am nothing... feed me

 

 

You, typically, make some wild assumptions about my 'beliefs', which says a bit to confirm my opinion about your approach towards a solution for inner development.

 

Ironically, i do share some of your views as to ways to heal the planet, for example, eradicating heavy dependency on meat consumption etc., but then again, anything which causes dependency will eventually fail anyways. Its not so much what is done or acted upon, rather, the motives kept in check that counts more.

 

Reflecting on this actually brought up a recollection of scenes of less-than-peaceful exchanges during animal rights protests reported from time to time. That people who activate awareness to animal cruelty would resort to violent means in defence of their projected views is quite ironical. But not all are like that. I know a few vegans who are especially meek, docile and quiet. Guess your views indicate you could be one of the exceptional few who prefers to stand at the front lines of attention.

[TzuJanLi]

That would be inner peace. Total satisfaction with what and who you are. Total acceptance of your condition within your environment.

 

Easy you say?

 

Then why are there so many miserable people on the planet? Why do Buddhists keep telling us that we are suffering?

Suffering is a self-referential value, assigned by the observer based on their beliefs about what is actually happening.. it's interesting to have a discussion with a Buddhist and when you explain that you're not suffering, they tell you are but you just don't realize it.. mostly, it's a misunderstanding of what is meant by the term 'suffering', there's the common meaning that most people use, 'enduring pain', and then the conceptual structured model used by Buddhists.. it is worth noting, that simply because i don't identify with someone's model does not equate to suffering on my part..

[eye_of_the_storm]

You, typically, make some wild assumptions about my 'beliefs', which says a bit to confirm my opinion about your approach towards a solution for inner development.

 

Ironically, i do share some of your views as to ways to heal the planet, for example, eradicating heavy dependency on meat consumption etc., but then again, anything which causes dependency will eventually fail anyways. Its not so much what is done or acted upon, rather, the motives kept in check that counts more.

 

Reflecting on this actually brought up a recollection of scenes of less-than-peaceful exchanges during animal rights protests reported from time to time. That people who activate awareness to animal cruelty would resort to violent means in defence of their projected views is quite ironical. But not all are like that. I know a few vegans who are especially meek, docile and quiet. Guess your views indicate you could be one of the exceptional few who prefers to stand at the front lines of attention.

 

I made such an assumption as you mostly ignored what I had said and chose only to state "Reading some of the views you have presented, it does not appear that your diet choice has made any impact on your outlook about things in general, so no..."

 

Your communications in my opinion weren't very effective.

 

If people were killing your family wouldn't you be at "the front lines" ... not that TB is the front lines... haha

 

I assume.. being a Buddhist thoough? you would sit back with indifference

 

It may be that these peoples deep empathy and compassion leads them to defending animals like they would a brother, sister, father, mother etc...

 

With such empathy you feel the pain they feel...

 

You'd think on a "spiritual" forum... folks would be more inclined toward compassion and defense of fellow sentient beings... but no you get attacked and called an attention whore for trying to prevent (even if slightly) mass murder... and saying that health = happiness... ok...

 

It would appear... that humans enjoy suffering... and are only interested in their own suffering.

 

To think of the suffering of others is too difficult and militaristic / front lines action OORAH!

 

 

 

Edited December 1, 2014 by eye_of_the_storm

[allinone]

How do you know that you eat meat?

 

if you eat vegan just for the sake of knowing that eating meat is lessening suffering, it does not generate less suffering to the world.

 

Or does it? How?

Edited December 1, 2014 by allinone

[Marblehead]

I think you missed the point... peace is easily achievable by the masses...

Yes, Chapter 80 of the TTC speaks rather well to this.

 

But you raise a good point: why is there misery and suffering?

Because people are not paying any attention to what is written in Chapter 80 of the TTC.

[Marblehead]

The Buddha is a devil.

 

The Buddha creates suffering

 

The Buddha said "you are what you think!" .... then he tells people... you are suffering, life is suffering... what a mind f*** eh?

Hehehe. I must speak to this.

 

I think you judge Buddha a little bit too harshly. There really was a lot of suffering before he said we are suffering. And I will suggest that his father was part of the cause for that. Taking from the poor to feed the wealthy always creates suffering amongst the poor.

 

Yes, suffering is a mental state. But pain is not. Starvation is painful. He observed many in this condition and intuitively knew that they must be suffering.

 

Buddha knew he couldn't change the world so he arrived at a method of dealing with suffering: pretend you are not suffering. I mean, if you have the mental capacity to imagine gods and spirits and devils why can't you imagine you are not suffering?

[Marblehead]

You can't be too quick to dismiss it for mystical experiences.

What you spoke of has nothing to do with mystical experiences. Those experiences are real, physically and mentally identifiable.

[Marblehead]

Have some MANGOES ... do these not shine like the SUN? These Mangoes are very very happy :D

 

You brought back a memory. When I vacationed in Mexico my favorite mid-day drink was a mango slushee. Tasty beyond description.

[allinone]

Suffering is a self-referential value, assigned by the observer based on their beliefs about what is actually happening.. it's interesting to have a discussion with a Buddhist and when you explain that you're not suffering, they tell you are but you just don't realize it.. mostly, it's a misunderstanding of what is meant by the term 'suffering', there's the common meaning that most people use, 'enduring pain', and then the conceptual structured model used by Buddhists.. it is worth noting, that simply because i don't identify with someone's model does not equate to suffering on my part..

 

if you dont know what is suffering then you need more discipline.

 

Stop yourself doing what you like the most.

Do something what you don't like.

 

you can find attachments what are producing suffering. And thats gross level suffering, there is subtle suffering and even more subtle suffering.

Edited December 1, 2014 by allinone

[eye_of_the_storm]

What is written in Chapter 80... haha

Tao Te Ching - Lao Tzu - chapter 80

A small country has fewer people.
Though there are machines that can work ten to a hundred times faster
than man, they are not needed.
The people take death seriously and do not travel far.
Though they have boats and carriages, no on uses them.
Though they have armor and weapons, no one displays them.
Men return to the knotting of rope in place of writing.
Their food is plain and good, their clothes fine but simple,
their homes secure;
They are happy in their ways.
Though they live within sight of their neighbors,
And crowing cocks and barking dogs are heard across the way,
Yet they leave each other in peace while they grow old and die.

???

I agree...

[eye_of_the_storm]

Hehehe. I must speak to this.

 

I think you judge Buddha a little bit too harshly. There really was a lot of suffering before he said we are suffering. And I will suggest that his father was part of the cause for that. Taking from the poor to feed the wealthy always creates suffering amongst the poor.

 

Yes, suffering is a mental state. But pain is not. Starvation is painful. He observed many in this condition and intuitively knew that they must be suffering.

 

Buddha knew he couldn't change the world so he arrived at a method of dealing with suffering: pretend you are not suffering. I mean, if you have the mental capacity to imagine gods and spirits and devils why can't you imagine you are not suffering?

 

hm... I am happy someone saw the humour in it haha... being a little cheeky haha

 

You brought back a memory. When I vacationed in Mexico my favorite mid-day drink was a mango slushee. Tasty beyond description.

 

I feel like crying for the want of tasty beyond description mangoes... Buddha save me!

 

I laugh and cry in joy for the taste of divine ripened mangoes... heaven is on earth...

 

Edited December 1, 2014 by eye_of_the_storm

[Marblehead]

I laugh and cry in joy for the taste of divine ripened mangoes... heaven is on earth...

 

Back when "Food Lion" grocery chain was a functional company they carried a canned version of mangoes that were beyond compare to any other. I always kept some in the house in case I got the urge to have some.

 

I wish I had researched who their supplier was so that I could buy some of whatever label they are putting on them now.

[C T]

Marblehead: Im thinking fresh mangoes are plentiful in Florida?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmCpNnnRqgE

Edited December 1, 2014 by C T

[Marblehead]

Marblehead: Im thinking fresh mangoes are plentiful in Florida?

Yes, one can almost always find them in the stores.

 

Where I live the climate is considered sub-tropical and mangoes don't grow here. Yes, in extreme southern Florida they grow fine.

[C T]

Yes, one can almost always find them in the stores.

 

Where I live the climate is considered sub-tropical and mangoes don't grow here. Yes, in extreme southern Florida they grow fine.

If the mangoes wont come to you, you have to go to the mangoes...

[Marblehead]

If the mangoes wont come to you, you have to go to the mangoes...

Hehehe. During the winter I have been known to say that if I ever have to move again I am going to move to Florida. (I consider my area to be part of South Georgia in many ways.)

[Silent Answers]

One great thing about China.. Mangos and all kinds of fruit grow on trees around the parks. Theyre probably coated in and contain a lot of air pollution, though...

[Marblehead]

Well, at least the mangoes are still left.

[TzuJanLi]

if you dont know what is suffering then you need more discipline.

 

Stop yourself doing what you like the most.

Do something what you don't like.

 

you can find attachments what are producing suffering. And thats gross level suffering, there is subtle suffering and even more subtle suffering.

 

I do know what is suffering.. i have endured great pain, and i have caused great pain..

 

Judging others based on your own beliefs seldom finds common ground for understanding..

 

Would you be so kind as to describe what you mean when you use the words 'suffering' and 'discipline', i am hoping to reply in a way that is consistent with your understanding..

[allinone]

I do know what is suffering.. i have endured great pain, and i have caused great pain..

 

Judging others based on your own beliefs seldom finds common ground for understanding..

 

Would you be so kind as to describe what you mean when you use the words 'suffering' and 'discipline', i am hoping to reply in a way that is consistent with your understanding..

 

Discipline - is a way to rise wisdom.

Suffering is characteristic of anything you are attached to. Body is attached to air, take air away and you suffer.

 

Knowing suffering, was meant as if you don't recoqnize that characteristic you need more merit and virtue, and even more merit to start doing something to get rid of it and more merit to pick a right method and even more merit to pick the best method.

 

Suffering is characteristic of all impermanent things. Whatever you do or mind state is, suffering is its characteristic.

[ChiDragon]

Mental distress is the highest suffering. It is the most that a Buddhist was referring to and wants to avoid.

[Infinity]

 

 

Acording to Taoist teachings, one's purpose should be to reach a state where all earthly attachements are gonne, to become a void. If so, after reaching said state, what's left? Just peace? How is someone who has done it?

I think it's beyond words to describe so speculation is of no use. It's a case of suck it and see! :-)

 

What ever is left is the real authentic you.

Edited December 3, 2014 by Infinity