on the topic of gurus

[mantis]

while meditating a question arose: is a guru necessary? this question will lead to a variety of answers, each in their own branch. but analyze this. if being enlightened is truly our natural state, why do we need external aid? when you meditate you should know what to do yourself - it is simply undoing what is not allowing you to be enlightened, correct?

 

"???" (i suppose my computer cannot handle korean or chinese text) mentioned that at times, celestial beings and what not send us new things to meditate upon or mantras or mudras, ect. when ready. (this is in the mudra topic as a variety of people have performed mudras they did not know exist.)

 

could this be the case for all? after all, buddha had no guru. he meditated and meditated and told himself "i'm not going to stop meditating until i awake," which would sound hazardous to us, but look at his end result. in the end i believe simple, plain meditation is the key ingredient. length isn't of great importance since i believe the goal of meditation is to create the ability to meditate while you AREN'T physically meditating.

 

i meant to post this earlier - when the question arose to be specific, but i seemingly forgot about it. i know there is more i wanted to discuss but i suppose this will do.

[Pero]

is a guru necessary?

 

Depends on the tradition you follow.

 

 

after all, buddha had no guru

 

That`s not true if I remember correctly. Buddha had one, though in his previous lives. When with the power of his meditation he was able to see his past lives, he also remembered his teacher. I`m not 100% sure on this, maybe I`ll check up on it later.

[Taomeow]

In Ramayana, there's an episode where Rama meets some monks who ask him for a mantra so they can meditate, because apparently they are plagued by some anti-meditation demons that interfere with their practice. Rama, a god in reality but a young swinger in this particular incarnation, tells them that he has to go ask his guru. So he goes to his guru. The guru sees a god approaching and falls flat on his face before him. Rama sees his guru and falls flat on his face to honor him. So they lie on the ground honoring each other, and then Rama asks the guru about the mantra to expel the demons to help the monks, and the guru goes, hey, you're a god, you can make any mantra you like and make it work, you can eliminate the demons with a snap of your fingers, you can create or destroy the monks themselves, and me for that matter... no, wait a minute... hold on... oh, OK, now I get it. You're a god and all that in the ultimate reality, but in this-here life you're a clueless seventeen-year-old and I'm your guru, much older and much much wiser, so I'm supposed to honor this incarnation of yours, not something beyond that I can see but am not supposed to allow to interfere with the current incarnation... sorry, my bad. He gets up, and treats Rama as a human student, the way he knows he should. And Rama humbly accepts the teaching and goes off with the mantra he came for.

 

Does that answer your question?

Edited September 25, 2007 by Taomeow

[mYTHmAKER]

while meditating a question arose: is a guru necessary? this question will lead to a variety of answers, each in their own branch. but analyze this. if being enlightened is truly our natural state, why do we need external aid? when you meditate you should know what to do yourself - it is simply undoing what is not allowing you to be enlightened, correct?

 

A living guru is necessary as he / she won't let you get away with anything.

If you chose a guru who is no longer in their body you have room to rationalize a lot of your actions.

The bottom line is the guru is within you - you are the guru - but you have to do a bit of traveling

to get to this place. At this point all your actions will be right. You know the truth.

[mantis]

In Ramayana, there's an episode where Rama meets some monks who ask him for a mantra so they can meditate, because apparently they are plagued by some anti-meditation demons that interfere with their practice. Rama, a god in reality but a young swinger in this particular incarnation, tells them that he has to go ask his guru. So he goes to his guru. The guru sees a god approaching and falls flat on his face before him. Rama sees his guru and falls flat on his face to honor him. So they lie on the ground honoring each other, and then Rama asks the guru about the mantra to expel the demons to help the monks, and the guru goes, hey, you're a god, you can make any mantra you like and make it work, you can eliminate the demons with a snap of your fingers, you can create or destroy the monks themselves, and me for that matter... no, wait a minute... hold on... oh, OK, now I get it. You're a god and all that in the ultimate reality, but in this-here life you're a clueless seventeen-year-old and I'm your guru, much older and much much wiser, so I'm supposed to honor this incarnation of yours, not something beyond that I can see but am not supposed to allow to interfere with the current incarnation... sorry, my bad. He gets up, and treats Rama as a human student, the way he knows he should. And Rama humbly accepts the teaching and goes off with the mantra he came for.

 

Does that answer your question?

 

if i was a believer of reincarnation i would. if you are enlightened i thought the cycle of rebirth ended?

[VeeCee]

if i was a believer of reincarnation i would. if you are enlightened i thought the cycle of rebirth ended?

 

I believe you can choose to come back and help others. I think that's what a bodisattva is/does.

[Taoist81]

No matter what the tradition (unless you really believe it was started by some god that created everything) follow it back and sooner or later you reach someone (or more likely a group of someones) who figured out that particular tradition's practices. Or if you want to be more realistic, there was a someone who had an idea and afterwards (like everything else in human life) it was sharpened and tempered both by experience and superstition. Having someone to go to with questions is a valuable thing, though by no means a requirement for progress. (Note: As someone noted above, to be able to claim certain sects or traditions with any validity, one would certainly have to have a guru. Otherwise, nature and the Tao itself are incredible teachers, if one takes the time to listen.)

[Taomeow]

I believe you can choose to come back and help others. I think that's what a bodisattva is/does.

Right... also you can come back simply to enjoy earthly stuff in the flesh and help others do likewise. A prime example of this behavior is god Krishna's habit of sending 16,000 of his incarnations back to the world to make love to 16,000 milkmaids. (That's why some Krishnaits, male ones, dress like milkmaids! Who knows what they're trying to accomplish... and whether they actually succeed. I never had a chance to ask one. I'm relying on Ram Dass's account.)

 

In the taoist tradition, an accomplished master can choose to neither die nor ever leave to begin with, becoming an "earthly immortal" instead of a celestial one. (Of course celestial ones may choose to visit earth in the flesh too, and sometimes do -- usually to teach a promising newbie.) Earthly immortals are part of the overall fabric of Chinese civilization and are believed to have lived in the mountains for millennia and to have taught everybody who's anybody everything worth anything. The classics refer to them (in Wilhelm/Baynes translation, e.g.) as "the holy sages" or (in Cleary's) "the real humans."

[xenolith]

...The bottom line is the guru is within you - you are the guru - but you have to do a bit of traveling

to get to this place. At this point all your actions will be right. You know the truth.

Indeed, if one doesn't become one's own guru that person is lost with respect to spiritual evolution.

 

Plainly put, to do so is the purpose of Life.

 

Put another way, others may provide inspiration...you must provide manifestation.

 

Peace out.

 

xeno

Edited September 26, 2007 by xenolith

[Bum Grasshopper]

How does one go about finding a guru for instruction?

 

Most texts warn not to try certain practices with out supervision of an expert.

 

I cannot find any "gurus" "meditation instructors" or "spiritual guides" in the yellow pages. Where does one look for a reputable instructor?

[林愛偉]

How does one go about finding a guru for instruction?

 

Most texts warn not to try certain practices with out supervision of an expert.

 

I cannot find any "gurus" "meditation instructors" or "spiritual guides" in the yellow pages. Where does one look for a reputable instructor?

 

Meditation. Keep cultivating, and one will develop the eyes to recognize someone who is fit to teach.

 

Cultivate with such an intention to attract a master, and one will open their mind to those realms inwhich

a master will find one out.

 

Peace and Blessings,

Lin