Human ghosts/spirits vs aliens/entities

[Lth]

It's hard to distinguish whether it's one or the other.

Aliens / reptilians or other "demonic" entities use same telepathic communication but content is usually manipulative.

I looked up Mo Pai and John Chang and basically he says that human sipirits do such things as well, as in drain Yin energy.

So is there really no way to distinguish the two, like energetically or behaviourouly, from physical external influence in environment ?

What is YOUR experience, Tao practitioners and experienced cultivators ?

[Marblehead]

It is my experience, understanding, and opinion that there are no such things.

 

If you feel there is a problem you need search for the true cause(s) and deal with them.

 

(You cannot fight or destroy imaginary things.)

 

I will likely not post to this thread again as I'm sure I would only upset other members and I really don't like doing that.

[Chang]

I am afraid that I am in agreement with Marblehead on this matter. In all my years of experience in meditation and taoist cultivation I have never encountered aliens / reptilians or other "demonic" entities.

 

I have however met a few people who make claim to have done so, they would have done well to take Marbleheads advice to search out the true cause or causes of their problems and deal with them.

[Jeff]

Both exist and they have a very different "energy body" footprint. If one is able to notice/sense them, it is very easy to tell the difference.

 

Best wishes.

[thelerner]

I think its important to begin at a skeptical point, ie 'is this a creation of my own mind?' and work with that first.

 

The sages of my tradition, have tended toward the belief, such forces rare but real and the best way to deal with them is to ignore them. Go about your life, don't impower it. That tends to work whether they're manifestations of the mind or other. I suppose in extreme cases an expert should be called in, but what constitutes an expert is questionable.

[Clarity]

If you put belief and opinion aside for a moment, it's possible to discern the difference based on the energy (as Jeff mentioned). Now, I don't go so far as saying "these things exist" but people DO have energetic weaknesses to spirits, entities, demons, aliens, and so on. In fact, alien life experiences (as energetic weaknesses) are not uncommon either.

 

Typically when I hear someone say they have an entity or a spirit attachment, it's usually not the case but a misinterpretation.

[Brian]

I state with surety that ghosts are not just imaginary. Can't say anything about the rest.

[Clarity]

And since you brought it up, you (the OP) have an energetic weakness or problem with "alien abduction" especially "repeated abductions".

[Nungali]

Oh dang ! .... I thought this was going to be a video of a cage match

[Nungali]

It's hard to distinguish whether it's one or the other.

 

If you are willing to drop those labels and look at some other categories it might help you understand better.

 

Aliens / reptilians or other "demonic" entities use same telepathic communication but content is usually manipulative.

 

Thats a bit better; why not divide them according to 'beneficial' and 'malignant' (manipulative).

 

 

 

I looked up Mo Pai and John Chang and basically he says that human sipirits do such things as well, as in drain Yin energy.

 

 

So is there really no way to distinguish the two, like energetically or behaviourouly, from physical external influence in environment ?

 

There is definitely a way to distinguish the two, in my above classification, but maybe not your original one - it's too muddled.

 

 

 

What is YOUR experience, Tao practitioners and experienced cultivators ?

 

I am neither, have you considered a magical/psychological approach? I might be able to offer something on that level; something practical, real and backed up by medical trails and research.

 

... or you can just keep playing MorePie .

[Lth]

Wow so many different views/opinions. I appreciate.

Regarding to me or my problem I did struggle for 1-2 years because I didn't believe myself entities could harass people, and it creeped me out actually to even consider.

I don't have any belief systems or religions about this stuff, it's just what I experienced so far.

Some people say it's in your head but it's not really, you hear a voice clearly what it says (if you pay attention) and also physical voices can be heard ( cracking scrathching on walls for example) and other people hear it too.

What John Chang said in the book Magus of Java by Kosta Danaos is the entities wanna drain your yin, and it vibes with my experience perfectly.

They masquerade as angels or divine beings lol, and just try to get attention, if you don't give them attention they induce negative thoughts/emotions. But it's so absurd you are relaxed and some kind of horny thought or rage emotion comes in, and it's so obvious that it's not myself, but if you do pay attention it will be a vehicle from which to drain energy.

So far it has been these with a coldish "piercing energy", only once that I sensed a being with warm energy, but it's most likely was a "living" being (out of body?), and entities, discarnate ghosts/spiritis all have yin (cold energy) that is so far I know.

So any ideas how to identify the positive ones. Nungali, Clarity, Jeff you seem to be in the know, share some experiences please !

[Lth]

Oh dang ! .... I thought this was going to be a video of a cage match

Haha it's a fantastic name isn't it

 

Now everyone is going to stumble into this topic !

 

But is important people do. You must see not only physical but sense what is beyond human body perception.

 

Practice and develop not only jing, but chi and shen !

[GrandmasterP]

I state with surety that ghosts are not just imaginary. Can't say anything about the rest.

 

Absolutely 'ghosts' are a fact of life.

I prefer 'spirit friends' though.

Entities might be another name for ghosts but tends to come with negative connotations as in...

" I think an entity has attached to me."

That's not good.

I don't believe that spirits are out to drain our energy with ill intent but the fact is that spirit communication can and does use our energy.

Back in the old days ( I'm a Spiritualist) when seances were popular the medium communicating could be totally exhausted at the end as if they had run a marathon.

Reptilians etc I don't know much about at all, seems a bit science-fiction- like somehow, bit who knows for sure?

[BaguaKicksAss]

It's hard to distinguish whether it's one or the other.

 

Aliens / reptilians or other "demonic" entities use same telepathic communication but content is usually manipulative.

 

I looked up Mo Pai and John Chang and basically he says that human sipirits do such things as well, as in drain Yin energy.

 

So is there really no way to distinguish the two, like energetically or behaviourouly, from physical external influence in environment ?

 

What is YOUR experience, Tao practitioners and experienced cultivators ?

 

Human spirits tend to look... human. Non human spirits most often tend to look not human.

 

Human spirits tend to talk in familiar terms and biases as humans. Non-human spirits not so much; they really don't see things the same way we do.

 

You could always ask them . (most folks seem to forget this trick).

[BaguaKicksAss]

Wow so many different views/opinions. I appreciate.

 

Regarding to me or my problem I did struggle for 1-2 years because I didn't believe myself entities could harass people, and it creeped me out actually to even consider.

 

I don't have any belief systems or religions about this stuff, it's just what I experienced so far.

 

Some people say it's in your head but it's not really, you hear a voice clearly what it says (if you pay attention) and also physical voices can be heard ( cracking scrathching on walls for example) and other people hear it too.

 

What John Chang said in the book Magus of Java by Kosta Danaos is the entities wanna drain your yin, and it vibes with my experience perfectly.

 

They masquerade as angels or divine beings lol, and just try to get attention, if you don't give them attention they induce negative thoughts/emotions. But it's so absurd you are relaxed and some kind of horny thought or rage emotion comes in, and it's so obvious that it's not myself, but if you do pay attention it will be a vehicle from which to drain energy.

 

So far it has been these with a coldish "piercing energy", only once that I sensed a being with warm energy, but it's most likely was a "living" being (out of body?), and entities, discarnate ghosts/spiritis all have yin (cold energy) that is so far I know.

 

So any ideas how to identify the positive ones. Nungali, Clarity, Jeff you seem to be in the know, share some experiences please !

 

After reading your description above, who cares what they are, get rid of them. You have obviously attracted some entities which are hindering instead of helping.

[BaguaKicksAss]

It is my experience, understanding, and opinion that there are no such things.

 

If you feel there is a problem you need search for the true cause(s) and deal with them.

 

(You cannot fight or destroy imaginary things.)

 

I will likely not post to this thread again as I'm sure I would only upset other members and I really don't like doing that.

 

In my experience there are such things. Just because one is not able to perceive something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

 

To the OP; However, they can only mess with you if you have unresolved crap to work through, and the more unresolved crap, the easier you are to mess with.

 

Your homework is laid out for you .

 

PS I don't recommend mopai practice for you if you already have these troubles.

[Nungali]

 

 

So any ideas how to identify the positive ones. Nungali, Clarity, Jeff you seem to be in the know, share some experiences please !

 

negative 'entities' : 'demonic forces': hallucinations of a lower order: 'persecuting spirits': etc.

 

Claim separate identity to those they persecute, but that can be exposed on in depth examination (and they hate that ... in depth examination and questioning, as it exposes them). They claim psychic or unknown knowledge that the person (they originated from) can not know (trying to affirm their separation) but, it can be shown (again on deeper examination) that the person did have access to that knowledge. The often talk rubbish and suggest detrimental choices and courses of behaviour ... in extreme situations, suggest self harm, suicide or the murder of those close to the one afflicted ... or that they are going to kill the person afflicted. They dont like to give a name, but they will if pressed - the name doesnt stand up to analysis ( by deeper methods, such as Kabbalistic analysis. They get agitated when pressed with logic, they dont like to hear religion or philosophy, they will suggest 'blasphemous acts' and persecute the afflicted for not doing them, if they do, they will then change to mockery for doing it.

 

In other words, they act detrimentally to the welfare of the afflicted and those close to them.

 

A 'positive entity : 'angelic force' : hallucination of an higher order : redeeming spirit : etc.

 

Are not really interested in claiming identity for themselves, they often say they are a ;force' or a 'representative of' ..... , they are happy to be examined and tested in depth, their answers often hold multiple levels of internal confirmation, they seem to possess knowledge that the associated person does not know, they appear to be 'generated' from some source 'outside' of the person in question , they talk sense and suggest good and healthy solutions, they give encouragement, they are happy to talk about religion and philosophy, ... and so on...

 

In short ... they are good

 

These types of tests and trials put on them, give the same results and divisions, whether it is old style Swedenborgian 'spirit possession' philosophy, modern clinical (although rather far out) psychiatry, or the basics in evocative magic.

 

Its a large subject ... but there is an area where all three approaches intersect; here they also offer the appropriate remedies.

 

This seems the easiest and most general introduction to the subject ... but for the fuller picture, I recommend a greater reading of the works written by the authors mentioned in the article (Swedenborg and vanDusen );

 

http://www.searchwithin.org/download/presence_spirits.pdf

Edited December 6, 2014 by Nungali

[Nungali]

In my experience there are such things. Just because one is not able to perceive something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

 

To the OP; However, they can only mess with you if you have unresolved crap to work through, and the more unresolved crap, the easier you are to mess with.

 

True ... but I believe they can start to manifest due to a socio-cultural degeneration ... in one form or another ... the subtler and harder to identify, the more dangerous IMO .

 

But also I suppose any such degeneration is going to effect the individual = unresolved crap to work through.

 

So maybe it is a knack of maintaining balance and finding cause, reason and expression while living in a fractured society as well ?

 

The path of initiation and individuation is all about dealing with these issues ... but it has to be a manifestation of that path that is relevant to the times and socio-cultural conditions we are in ... sadly, we seem to have lost that in our society generally - hence all the shit that's going around.

 

Morepie might have been such a situation, for the people that developed that then, for the time and place they lived, and their socio-cultural background. But is it right for you ?

 

I am wary of such ... like advising you to take up Aztec practices, or sending a tribal desert Aboriginal, who is feeling spiritually lost to partake of the sacrament of Holy Communion in a cathedral in a city.

[BaguaKicksAss]

True ... but I believe they can start to manifest due to a socio-cultural degeneration ... in one form or another ... the subtler and harder to identify, the more dangerous IMO .

 

But also I suppose any such degeneration is going to effect the individual = unresolved crap to work through.

 

So maybe it is a knack of maintaining balance and finding cause, reason and expression while living in a fractured society as well ?

 

The path of initiation and individuation is all about dealing with these issues ... but it has to be a manifestation of that path that is relevant to the times and socio-cultural conditions we are in ... sadly, we seem to have lost that in our society generally - hence all the shit that's going around.

 

Morepie might have been such a situation, for the people that developed that then, for the time and place they lived, and their socio-cultural background. But is it right for you ?

 

I am wary of such ... like advising you to take up Aztec practices, or sending a tribal desert Aboriginal, who is feeling spiritually lost to partake of the sacrament of Holy Communion in a cathedral in a city.

 

True, some very very very nasty spirits around strip mines for example, or certain parts of town in the city.. .

Edited December 6, 2014 by BaguaKicksAss

[Jeff]

...

So far it has been these with a coldish "piercing energy", only once that I sensed a being with warm energy, but it's most likely was a "living" being (out of body?), and entities, discarnate ghosts/spiritis all have yin (cold energy) that is so far I know.

 

So any ideas how to identify the positive ones. Nungali, Clarity, Jeff you seem to be in the know, share some experiences please !

 

Hi Lth,

 

Coldish temperature is not necessarily a sign of a "negative" being. Most often such a temparature difference is a sign of a being that is "deeper" in consciousness. Also, while I agree with the above posts that almost always any percieved being is most likely a personal issue or fear being manifest in our own "mental space" (kind of like an energy overload), I did a quick check and found that at your current "clarity level" it is possible that you could notice such "outside" contact.

 

If you want to meet in chat sometime, I could probably show you the difference. Just send me a pm if you are interested.

 

Best regards,

Jeff

[Lth]

True ... but I believe they can start to manifest due to a socio-cultural degeneration ... in one form or another ... the subtler and harder to identify, the more dangerous IMO .

 

But also I suppose any such degeneration is going to effect the individual = unresolved crap to work through.

 

So maybe it is a knack of maintaining balance and finding cause, reason and expression while living in a fractured society as well ?

 

The path of initiation and individuation is all about dealing with these issues ... but it has to be a manifestation of that path that is relevant to the times and socio-cultural conditions we are in ... sadly, we seem to have lost that in our society generally - hence all the shit that's going around.

 

Morepie might have been such a situation, for the people that developed that then, for the time and place they lived, and their socio-cultural background. But is it right for you ?

 

I am wary of such ... like advising you to take up Aztec practices, or sending a tribal desert Aboriginal, who is feeling spiritually lost to partake of the sacrament of Holy Communion in a cathedral in a city.

Only now I realized you mean Mo Pai with morepie haha. The practice is not such a big deal, it's not public to anyone also, so I don't even know what is is ! except from reading a book ofcourse, only some details.

 

I'll read that book you mentioned, but reading the excerpt you wrote it looks very closed-minded description of something which has an intellect of it's own. Or maybe it's not the same thing or maybe it's both ! Like the "demonic" and "angelic" being the same thing, whichever you choose, but same thing packed in a different package !

[dust]

I feel that it would be irresponsible not to at least suggest that auditory hallucinations could be a sign of

 

sleep deprivation

stress

drug use

abnormalities in the brain (psychosis)

 

 

No offense intended. These are all real causes of problems.

Edited December 7, 2014 by dustybeijing

[Lth]

I feel that it would be irresponsible not to at least suggest that auditory hallucinations could be a sign of

 

sleep deprivation

stress

drug use

abnormalities in the brain (psychosis)

 

 

No offense intended. These are all real causes of problems.

I know I know! But other people hear it too, so it's not.

 

Most often sound is very much like 2 electric cables touched together, like + - car cable starters *tsch*tsch*

[Lth]

Human spirits tend to look... human. Non human spirits most often tend to look not human.

 

Human spirits tend to talk in familiar terms and biases as humans. Non-human spirits not so much; they really don't see things the same way we do.

 

You could always ask them . (most folks seem to forget this trick).

 

All I can see is white sparks floating in air or brief flashes in mind's eye. The third eye I guess. Because while in meditation or just relaxed and eyes closed I can still see a moving white dot.

 

I don't see any silhouete, like I assume you would think of a human or something else.

 

Other than seeing I usually sense something. Often when breathing air comes back at me. On the breath out cold air literraly "breathes" back at me. It's ridiculous and funny at the same time lol

 

 

EDIT: I'm not ofcourse implying that this couldn't be some sort of energetic manifestation going on with me, as I do practice and cultivate a bit, and had/have these so called Kundalini symptoms. It may be something that I'm not aware of happening.

 

But what I know is that I can clearly hear someone/something saying, whispering into my mind and interacting with my energy field (usually negatively)

Edited December 7, 2014 by Lth

[C T]

You may have offended something that you are not aware of. People think its superstition, but nature spirits are often quite touchy, and if you venture into their territory disrespectfully, it (or they) tends to feel it necessary to draw your attention to the fact that what you did was an invasion of their space. This is why in Asia when someone goes into the woods or parks, they often chant some mantra and/or say something to the effect of "Please excuse my intrusion - its not intentional". For example, its taboo over in some parts of Asia, for the Chinese especially, to pee irreverently when they are in the woods for fear of offending a lurking elemental spirit or something more sinister.

 

Some priests (Taoist or Buddhist) are able to detect if this is indeed what had taken place, so maybe an idea would be to request to see one who would be knowledgeable in these things, and they will tell you exactly what had happened and the right ritual to perform so as to placate the offended spirit. Usually some ritual offerings may be required.

 

If it is true that you have offended an elemental spirit, its not something you would be able to shake off on your own. Sorry to be bringing you such news, but who knows, maybe its not this at all. Just try and recall if you have been into the forest or parks of late, and what, if anything, that you had done that may have caused something to latch on to you.

 

Just passing on probable cause.