Human ghosts/spirits vs aliens/entities

[Arda]

Why do you worry about these things? They're irrelevant. They have no authority to impede upon your life or impose themselves upon you, in any way.

 

I don't mean to be presumptuous, but I think there is of unnecessary fear coming from this thread regarding this matters. Live, but live in consciousness of yourself. Then, live in dominance of yourself. Do you forget that your essence is a ray of the infinite? That is all.

[sifuaminjani]

humans can become either a ghost or a spirit, depends what the person cultivates (or not cultivate). and aliens and demons are the same thing.

[eye_of_the_storm]

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Edited December 10, 2014 by eye_of_the_storm

[Nungali]

humans can become either a ghost or a spirit, ...

 

What is the difference ?

 

and aliens and demons are the same thing.

 

The same thing as what (besides each other)? Different types of this 'thing' or exactly the same, just different names? Or the same thing as a ghost or a spirit.

Edited December 10, 2014 by Nungali

[Nungali]

Why do you worry about these things? They're irrelevant. They have no authority to impede upon your life or impose themselves upon you, in any way.

 

I don't mean to be presumptuous, but I think there is of unnecessary fear coming from this thread regarding this matters. Live, but live in consciousness of yourself. Then, live in dominance of yourself. Do you forget that your essence is a ray of the infinite? That is all.

 

 

But they do on some people, or, some people feel they do, and can suffer in all sorts of ways.

 

Its all very well for the healthy to 'tut tut' :

 

From Dr VanDusen's paper I linked to earlier ;

 

" The subjects of this study came to the attention of friends or

the public because of unusual behavior. The average layman's picture of the mentally ill as

raving lunatics is far from reality. Most of these people have become entangled in inner

processes and simply fail to manage their lives well. In the hospital most have freedom of the

grounds and the average visitor is impressed that, aside from occasional odd bits of behavior, the

patients have most of their powers and appear like almost everyone else. Many return home in a

month or two, never to need mental hospitalization again. Some become so enmeshed in inner

processes that they slip to lower levels of mental disorder. "

 

What's your remedy? Psychiatric treatment? In this case they got that, but a type of treatment acknowledged 'other entities' involved with their 'situation'.

 

Or do you just recommend telling them ; " Do you forget that your essence is a ray of the infinite?"

 

That is all.

 

 

End transmission.

Edited December 10, 2014 by Nungali

[ronko]

Such ignorant narrow minded people on Tao bums these days ?

 

In reply to Arda , some people do not choose to worry about these things intentionally , they come into your life regardless ,

I know this through experience.

Benevolent and malevolent spirits exist as does all the "grey" in between.

 

Sifuaminjani , how have you come to the conclusion that aliens and demons are the same thing ?

This is not my experience , you have aliens , you have demons , and you have both just as you do a being , be it in this dimension or otherwise who has a demon with them, you also have a multitude of other beings.

 

"humans can become either a ghost or a spirit" ???

 

With my physical eyes I have saw ufo's , one of the craft I saw quite close as it flew overhead, this was not a man made craft but more an energy craft , I have also seen man made craft which are worldwide and not at all hard to spot.

I have seen orbs manifest in front of me when I have waited for them to show themselves , I have also had many multi-dimensional dreamtime experiences with other beings , ask Ya-Mu , ask flowing hands , ask dawg , they have all experienced first hand other worlds and beings.

[eye_of_the_storm]

The skepticism is strange for a Taoist forum, true (for me (haha))

[Silent Answers]

The fact is... most people talking about this here have no credibility or proof of their claims. Even though I agree that aliens most likely exist, I *think* I saw a UFO when I was younger, I've witnessed pretty hardcore proof of ghosts, I've moved small objects across a table with no physical contact and I often have flashes of events a few hours into the future ...keeping a sense of scepticism is healthy. My experiences are my own, and I'm honest enough with myself to admit as humans we make mistakes. There could be alternate explanations.

 

The way we perceive things is very limited, and open to interpretation/distortion. It's important to not let yourself get carried away and add to the distractions, if your goal is finding inner peace.

 

As a side note: The big bang and dark matter remain unproven. Adding scientific buzzwords into your experiences doesn't make the stories any more trustworthy/real. Just like the "quantum" this and that, which gets thrown around with new age mash ups of old ideas and scientific "discoveries".

 

I'm not saying to anybody "you're wrong"...believe whatever you want. Like I said, I have my own beliefs, too. However, trying to prove or state that your experiences are fact, or say what is and isn't happening outside of your personal experience, is meaningless. Calling others narrow-minded, and then going on to say that your views are the truth, is hypocritical.

 

Many people are way too eager to see something outside of their human existence. It's more important to first understand the world around you, from your current position.

[eye_of_the_storm]

Well I trust that you are speaking the truth when you say "I've witnessed pretty hardcore proof of ghosts, I've moved small objects across a table with no physical contact" etc... I have no reason to doubt you.

What you have shared doesn't gain you anything really?

These are mostly anonymous accounts? the only thing gained is sharing of experiences... from that we may learn something new.

If we all decided "The way we perceive things is very limited, and open to interpretation/distortion. It's important to not let yourself get carried away and add to the distractions, if your goal is finding inner peace."

There would be no forum... rocks have inner peace

What is your purpose of being here? to tell people that their experiences aren't real? seems like a waste of time to me.

Edited December 11, 2014 by eye_of_the_storm

[Lth]

I am going to be a very rude person and not read this thread all the way through before posting. I was a christian for over 20 years. Before I became a christian, and during this time, I had paranormal or supernatural experiences. As far as I know, at this time, I also created a tulpa (thought form), fell in love with it thinking it was something else, and eventually disconnected myself from it, literally breaking up. Finally I have watched numerous episodes of shows like, A Haunting. All of this has given me a very unique perspective on the whole thing.

 

If you are a christian you may suffer, more than any non-christian, from what you will call demonic attacks. This is because your beliefs, as a christian, empower and reinforce what you call evil. If you believe in god you also believe in satan. If you believe in angels you also believe in demons. If you believe in heaven you also believe in hell. You are sending energy to these things. Whatever we send energy to, we help to manifest. Whatever we dwell on, focus on and think about we draw to us. In short, all of the entities christians believe in are tulpas, including their idea of god.

 

A tulpa is a thought form that feeds on our energy. The energy is directed by our beliefs. The stronger our beliefs, the more energy we are feeding this tulpa. My tulpa fed on my sexual energy. I have a theory here that even children are summoned in some way energetically by the collective sexual energy of two people mating. Sexual energy is one of the most powerful forms of energy, in the right states of mind sexual energy can be used to directly affect the energetic in some way, as was the case for me. Belief energy is not as strong, it is only as strong as the one believing, it brings more of a focus to one's usual manipulation of the energetic while in physical form.

 

So god and satan are tulpas, as are all angels and demons. As far as heaven or hell, from what I understand (but have not experienced to my recollection) the afterlife, the astral planes, whatever you want to call them, wherever its is you go when you die, that space is vast, infinitely vast. So I have no doubt there is a heaven christians can go to if that is where they wish to go, based on where they have placed their believe energy, their focus. And maybe there is a hell that certain people may feel they deserve to end up in.

 

But neither of these places are the real afterlife, and neither of them trap you there eternally, whatever you believe. You may wake up in time, decide you are bored with eternal perfection, that you want something beyond the duality you experienced for however many years you lived on earth, so you leave it and go somewhere else. Or maybe you get tired of suffering in hell, of letting demons shove hot pokers up your arse, so you leave. You realize you endured enough hell when you were alive physically.

 

Other theories say there are several vibrational states in the afterlife, with one filled with nasty creatures an suffering close to the vibrational rate of the physical world, and this is likely where ghosts would come from, as they are not able to leave to the higher vibratory states just yet.

 

I tend to believe that aliens, ghosts and bigfoot are tulpas. Thought forms given temporary physical existence. Explains why these entities can disappear and have only a limited effect on the physical world. The only reason they are as strong as they are now is that humans have collectively sent belief energy to them for thousands of years. I doubt you will ever capture a ghosts, or find alien or bigfoot remains. Because these are not physical entities. They exist primarily in energetic form, they take on physical form only briefly and never permanently.

 

If everyone on earth at the same moment stopped believe in aliens, ghosts, bigfoot, god, satan, angels, demons, and all other religious entities, and that belief was suspended for a time, you would never find any eye witness account, of any reliability or truth, of any sighting of any of these things. There would be no demonic attacks, no angelic intervention, no demonic possessions, none of it. It would vanish in the same instant. As long as people send belief energy to these things which these entities feed on, they will continue to haunt us. It is really as simple as that.

 

All institutionalized and organized religions will some day have to wake up to the fact that their belief systems are based on duality. Which means there is that which is considered ideal or right, and that which is considered less than ideal or wrong. Even their afterlives have this! Can you imagine how horrible heaven would actually be? You just worship your own idea of God for all eternity. There is no growth, nothing to learn, nothing to express, no individual expression. Perfection is stagnation. It is the Lego movie in eternity, President Business using the Kragle to glue everyone and everything into place and have this perfect world he created, only in the case of heaven it would be god with the crazy glue! Who in their right mind would want that for their eternal destination after this life?

 

The texts I have read have it right... Heaven or hell is right now, in this moment. If you are caught in duality or time you are in hell. If you are free from duality and time you are in heaven. But heaven and hell are right here, right now, in your state of mind, literally! Being stuck in any belief system or religion that places you firmly in duality or time will also place you firmly in hell. Christians are the unhappiest people I know, who suffer the worst. Why? Because they are sinners, they need to be saved, this world is not their home, it is nothing more than a pit stop on the road to the greater destination, and let's not forget that some of the stronger believing ones, such as the Amish, have the most horrible evil entities tormenting them. Now wonder there is global warming and so much pollution on earth! Why should the majority of its population, those caught in dualistic religions that do not see this world as their home, care about it at all?

 

I know these words may hurt some and if this is the case I am sorry to have caused pain. I know that some seek to understand these things, search for them even, and its easy, maybe even for me, to get caught up in the whole paranormal or supernatural phenomena thing. Hell if I was invited I would go to that tuberculosis hospital with its death tunnel and hunt for ghosts! Can't remember the name of it now. But I would go! I would probably experience things too, because others with me believe in them and are giving them their energy, and it would eventually leech some belief energy out of me. I mean its hard not to believe when you see a shadow figure or hear some disembodied voice screaming in your ear. Kinda hard to ignore that! I love watching Ghost Hunters with my dad, we saw one episode in Season 8 where it sounded like someone was whistling, plain as day, and it wasn't any of the crew! That was awesome!

 

But the truth is that there is no more reality to it than a haunted house attraction. That's all it is, a better, more authentic, haunted house attraction. Without belief energy its just an old building that's falling apart. The harder you fight the things you believe in, the more energy you give them. So some of the episodes I have seen of A Haunting and Paranormal Witness seem to show people locked in struggles with things throwing them around. Why? Because they believe so strongly in their faith, their religion, typically christianity. Which means they believe just as strongly in demons, which gives the tulpa enough energy to affect them physically. In the same way a psychic is more easily tossed around by a tulpa. The guy in the series The Haunted Collector will always find haunted items, because he believes he will. His continued energy in their being haunted will allow ghostly things to happen around them. On and on it goes.

 

These words have to be sharp to cut away all illusion. The christian god does not exist. There is no old man on a thrown somewhere. Nor does the muslim god exist, or the hindu gods, or any other institutionalized and organized religion's gods. Likewise none of their demons exist. Aliens and bigfoot also do not exist. But I will allow that aliens at least could be real, should there be a race out there in the stars that makes its way to our planet. But we will know the real thing from the tulpa, The real thing is something everyone will be able to see and interact with, even the Buddhist monk praying in the mountains somewhere.

 

Right on.

 

Only thing is if you get bothered by an entity it won't help you to believe it's a something other than what it is, or NOT believe it in this case.

 

I agree with the part "giving attention makes it stronger", but that is because you are participating in the interaction. Same as if you are talking with a person if you don't pay attention to the conversation it is a broken conversation ( or no conversation)

 

Now it's a different story if you are communicating with something you can't see touch. People are used to their 5 senses so no wonder many go insane. It's as if they are talking with themselves. Like a thug coming to you and saying what to do and you listen and do whatever he tells you - only thing is the thug isn't physical. I wouldn't wanna do that.

 

Psychological, mental, emotional these all can be different levels of interaction, but due to cultural programming people often forget that.

[Lth]

humans can become either a ghost or a spirit, depends what the person cultivates (or not cultivate). and aliens and demons are the same thing.

 

Ghost being more yang energy - can influence the environment - move objects, have a reflection etc. Spirit being only yin - communicate mentally, thought forms etc.

 

 

Edited December 11, 2014 by Lth

[Silent Answers]

I'm aware that posting such under this thread was pretty pointless, but then again I wouldn't be here at all if I didn't have my flaws. Do you practice empty/free/thoughtless meditation much? With your view, you could argue that anyone who does, is wasting their time like a rock. There's peace in it, though. Obviously, what we are aiming to achieve along the Way, is not the same thing.

 

As for the list of skills...I could well be lying, exaggerating or just delusional. That's precisely my point. Sharing experiences is dandy, but there's also a lot of "it's real because I experienced it". Almost everyone in the west agreed that Earth was the centre of everything for a while...that was a shared experience. Without doubt, where would we be?

 

All I'm saying is: an experience, even one shared among a group, doesn't make it truth. Like I said in the previous post, I'm not saying what is or isn't real, that's up to you. But when it comes to these things which are felt on a personal level and not part of the physical world we can prove, then nobody should be saying anything is definite, while discrediting other non-believers as narrow minded.

 

I hope that helps explain my position.

 

*Edited to clean up the broken code.

Edited December 11, 2014 by Silent Answers

[Lth]

Mainstream science ain't gonna pick this up in a million years, if that's what you're expecting

[Seth Ananda]

As for the list of skills...I could well be lying, exaggerating or just delusional. That's precisely my point. Sharing experiences is dandy, but there's also a lot of "it's real because I experienced it".

I agree that people do that, or they have an experience that they then make a set of conclusions about, and then never again question their interpretation of it.

I am against this, and always try to carefully examine my own and other peoples experiences.

 

Yet, This is not a scientific forum, where empirical data is worshiped as the only thing worth talking about. Spiritual systems and spiritual development {and thus spiritual forums} rely on 'anecdotal evidence' and personal sharing.

If you cant tell your teacher or a friend that you had heat move up your spine or any other random unusual thing {without them shouting "proove it, you could be delusional"}, then there is no chance for furthering growth, deepening relationships, or even talking.

Almost everyone in the west agreed that Earth was the centre of everything for a while...that was a shared experience. Without doubt, where would we be?

Earth centered astronomy still works quite well. We shifted to a heliocentric model that is also incorrect. Spacecentric reveals even the sun moving in spirals, and removes the problematic idea of something standing still. But when/if we change over to that, we wont be suddenly 'better off' than before...

 

All I'm saying is: an experience, even one shared among a group, doesn't make it truth. Like I said in the previous post, I'm not saying what is or isn't real, that's up to you. But when it comes to these things which are felt on a personal level and not part of the physical world we can prove, then nobody should be saying anything is definite, while discrediting other non-believers as narrow minded.

 

I hope that helps explain my position.

I disagree. No body has to believe. But if you hear someone's experience and write it off as nonsense immediately, then you are closed minded and are probably also a condescending prick.

And its bad science to do so, and against the rules of skepticism.

You could question to rule out 'delusion', 'soft in the headitis', 'dishonesty', mistaken environmental factors and so on... but that just may well leave you with more questions, and an attitude of 'I wasn't there, I don't know'.

 

Strangely some people who consider themselves scientifically minded, or skeptics are terrified of that 'I don't know' place.

 

Just because you have not experienced something does not mean that everyone who has is automatically an mentally unstable, below average intelligence, charlatan ass hat. And if they are your only go to options when meeting someone who has (or claims) 'experience' then you are closed minded, and you are a condescending prick.

[Nungali]

Dualism again < sigh>

 

some experiences are not meant to have a scientific and rational. hard reality proof.

 

Grabbing them by the throat and shaking them and demanding that they conform to consensus reality is missing the point.

 

I had GF a while back that was a 'UFO girl' ... the only time I saw really weird UFO stuff was with her ... the same with other people as well, one time I laughed because a mutual friend was freaking because of she saw a UFO chasing a plane as it was landing at the airport and then vanished, when she was with her ... but curiously enough, the next days newspapers reported others had seen it and Sydney airport picked it up on radar ... then it vanished.

 

I am more interested in that dynamic, than any 'real craft' or not side of things.

 

Of course it wasnt a real craft ..... but that doesnt mean it cant be seen or detected by radar

 

UFO girl was a very interesting phenomena ... she could 'do' other interesting stuff too, but often didnt realise it.

[eye_of_the_storm]

Dualism again < sigh>

 

some experiences are not meant to have a scientific and rational. hard reality proof.

 

Grabbing them by the throat and shaking them and demanding that they conform to consensus reality is missing the point.

 

I had GF a while back that was a 'UFO girl' ... the only time I saw really weird UFO stuff was with her ... the same with other people as well, one time I laughed because a mutual friend was freaking because of she saw a UFO chasing a plane as it was landing at the airport and then vanished, when she was with her ... but curiously enough, the next days newspapers reported others had seen it and Sydney airport picked it up on radar ... then it vanished.

 

I am more interested in that dynamic, than any 'real craft' or not side of things.

 

Of course it wasnt a real craft ..... but that doesnt mean it cant be seen or detected by radar

 

UFO girl was a very interesting phenomena ... she could 'do' other interesting stuff too, but often didnt realise it.

 

That reminds me of something in the movie

FairyTale: A True Story (1997)

 

Hmm basically... being in certain persons energy field can change/ open perception further.

 

Or that energy field was allowing the unseen to be seen

 

Edited December 12, 2014 by eye_of_the_storm

[Silent Answers]

I agree that people do that, or they have an experience that they then make a set of conclusions about, and then never again question their interpretation of it.

I am against this, and always try to carefully examine my own and other peoples experiences.

 

Yet, This is not a scientific forum, where empirical data is worshiped as the only thing worth talking about. Spiritual systems and spiritual development {and thus spiritual forums} rely on 'anecdotal evidence' and personal sharing.

If you cant tell your teacher or a friend that you had heat move up your spine or any other random unusual thing {without them shouting "proove it, you could be delusional"}, then there is no chance for furthering growth, deepening relationships, or even talking.

Earth centered astronomy still works quite well. We shifted to a heliocentric model that is also incorrect. Spacecentric reveals even the sun moving in spirals, and removes the problematic idea of something standing still. But when/if we change over to that, we wont be suddenly 'better off' than before...

I disagree. No body has to believe. But if you hear someone's experience and write it off as nonsense immediately, then you are closed minded and are probably also a condescending prick.

And its bad science to do so, and against the rules of skepticism.

You could question to rule out 'delusion', 'soft in the headitis', 'dishonesty', mistaken environmental factors and so on... but that just may well leave you with more questions, and an attitude of 'I wasn't there, I don't know'.

 

Strangely some people who consider themselves scientifically minded, or skeptics are terrified of that 'I don't know' place.

 

Just because you have not experienced something does not mean that everyone who has is automatically an mentally unstable, below average intelligence, charlatan ass hat. And if they are your only go to options when meeting someone who has (or claims) 'experience' then you are closed minded, and you are a condescending prick.

Let's be clear. I never said all sceptics are nice people. It's clear that there are assholes on both sides of the fence. I'm pretty much agreeing with your opening statement.

 

I see science and spirituality as exactly the same thing at heart. Trying to figure all of this out and have a meaningful existence. Both are riddled with misinformation and each only different in the way they approach the goal. People may turn it into a war of 2 sides that will never agree, but science was born of spirituality, looking for answers and order among a mess of opinions. I'm suggesting to walk a middle path between the two.

 

Saying that, my original post is not really about duality. It's about keeping a healthy amount of rationality when confronting such non physical experiences.

 

*If* that makes me a condescending prick, then I'll embrace the title.

[Ya Mu]

 

That reminds me of something in the movie

FairyTale: A True Story (1997)

 

Hmm basically... being in certain persons energy field can change/ open perception further.

 

Or that energy field was allowing the unseen to be seen

 

Absolutely!

[thelerner]

Do you think people who are very advanced, decades of hard core practice, are more likely to believe in spirits and ghosts? ..because they have real experience with them versus lay people and beginners??

[Silent Answers]

^^ I'd also like to see answers to that question.

[Lth]

There is a correlation between practice and ability - it's the same in anything. But not the most important factor. Quality over quantity I would say.

A child would be able to see the most and most clearly in my opinion. A child's energy field is least affected by culture/society and his perception - beliefs/views on the world/reality are yet to be formed.

I think it is the road after the child grows up is important, to find your way to that perceptive state you once were. Regaining wisdom of the child but also being a fully developed adult with experiences and recognition.

I also think being strongly connected to the collective unconscious mind will make you see less, or just about enough that the rest of the world does. Something like "our government is corrupt they are thieves", but "the underpants bomber was the real deal, damn those foreigners!" haha

Also diet is very important, like eye_of_the_storm mentioned. Eating meat makes you less aware of your energy field. Plus all the toxins chemicals medicine that is in it can make you dizzy, I heard so it's important to choose healthy foods and what you put in/on your body. Also no alcohol drugs ofcourse, but that should be pretty obvious. So... I'm sorry to say that...

IF you do not follow these guidelines - you will not see The GHOST !!!



Cheers!

[Seth Ananda]

Do you think people who are very advanced, decades of hard core practice, are more likely to believe in spirits and ghosts? ..because they have real experience with them versus lay people and beginners??

Depends on the discipline. Many things I would say no to, but certain things can be done by almost anyone, and will start yielding very unusual perceptions...

[thelerner]

Many things I would say no to, but certain things can be done by almost anyone, and will start yielding very unusual perceptions...

Could you give me some examples?

 

There is no argument as powerful as personal experience.

[Ya Mu]

Do you think people who are very advanced, decades of hard core practice, are more likely to believe in spirits and ghosts? ..because they have real experience with them versus lay people and beginners??

Depends on what they are "very advanced" in. Very advanced in Twiddlywinks - probably not.

 

But if a person does a practice that raises the vibrational frequency of the energy body, and embraces that practice, of course the change in perception is going to allow them to see further into the spectrum of "all that is". Most who do eventually can see into the "Spirit World". Dimensional shifting allows one to see other vibrational levels and it becomes - not a matter of belief - but an extended perception of reality. see SECAB&DE for reference

Worlds await those who are willing to put in the time&effort into such a practice. In our system, it is highly unusual - if one embraces the system - for a person to not do so. Usually in about 3-6 years - NOT decades.

[Seth Ananda]

Could you give me some examples?

 

There is no argument as powerful as personal experience.

Moving out of thinking mind into a felt sense experience of the world.

Take regular walks in nature, but walk at natures pace, slowly. Slow everything down. Don't jump your attention from thing to thing as the mind likes to do, but rather let your attention settle on each thing and really take in the 'impressions' of it, the deep feeling it has.

Everything has its own existence, comes as its own little {interconnected} package. It has a feeling quality, some level of subtle intelligence even, but it can only be known through feeling. Belief has nothing to do with it.

 

As soon as your 'felt sense' starts letting you experience the 'sentient' qualities present in everything, acknowledge them with quiet reverence. It all has its place in the living system.

Even rotting vegetation or dried out husks are performing a crucial function or process within the whole, deserve respect and gratitude.

 

The intelligences that coexist with these areas will start to show themselves more and more as you show yourself to be someone who is respectful and conscious of them.

 

Feelling will take you into the actual ongoing relationship that is always happening just below your thinking mind.