Do Taoists get angry?

[nantogph]

It's been said that when a Buddhist is angry, he knows he's angry! So what about Taoists?
What is this like? How do you feel? How does your anger affect you? Is your thinking affected, e.g. can you think clearly? How are you able to handle your anger? How does this compare with before you became Taoist?

[ChiDragon]

A Taoist needs to be cultivated to become one. It will not happen overnight.

[Michael Sternbach]

I would say, if you contemplate and try to follow the "water course way", then you can consider yourself to be a Taoist. Taoism looks at human emotions as basically self-adjusting. That is, if their natural flow is not tampered with. If they cause you troubles, the key is to look at them and understand what is happening.

[Chang]

It's been said that when a Buddhist is angry, he knows he's angry! So what about Taoists?

 

 

The state that you are describing here is conscious anger.

 

What most of us experience is unconscious anger.

 

Unconscious anger controls us. Conscious anger we control and can therefor decide if we wish to be angry or not. To have reached such a state is to have travelled far along the way.

[3bob]

To OP: Isn't that about like asking if all human beings get angry now and then?

 

But if you mean something like, "does a great Taoist sage get angry" then I say such a question and its answer would be a lot different...

Edited December 9, 2014 by 3bob

[Rara]

It's been said that when a Buddhist is angry, he knows he's angry! So what about Taoists?

What is this like? How do you feel? How does your anger affect you? Is your thinking affected, e.g. can you think clearly? How are you able to handle your anger? How does this compare with before you became Taoist?

I was an angry guy up until 3 years ago. By that I mean, whenever I got angry, I would smash stuff. Taoism (and Buddhism) has helped me to see when I am angry. If I see it first, I can do something about it. Now I am at a level where I can comfortably express it in a "rant". I make a comedy of it...or if something's really bothering me to the point of boiling, I can catch, accept that I'm angry and accept that it will pass.

 

It took a hell of a lot of practice.

 

So yeah, we're still human

Edited December 9, 2014 by Rara

[Marblehead]

All those questions in one little post causes me anger.

 

Well, not really. Sure I still get angry but most of it is directed at myself and really, my own fault.

 

Many good posts already so I will just return to silence.

[Rocky Lionmouth]

I think taoists get upset and angry, feel dissapointment and loss, no matter how much they've practiced. What they act like and how they see the emotions, what inspired them, what makes them linger etc is more relevant.

As a taoist, its interesting to study the play between inside and outside, between one person and others and it might make one realize more quickly what situation that emotion is trying to inform one about.

Since i started to study taoism i went through a period of "never angry" but it was repression, then "always angry" butt hat was frustrtion and dissapointment, now "sometimes angry" but i see what happened more quickly from my perspective and i know my perspective is just one of them so the question is always "what do we do now?" at his point.

 

I try not to let anger control me, merely inform. Usually the message is "does not compute, i dont understand why, this is irrational to me". Its a wip

Sometimes i get upset and rant but thats a whole different story.

Edited December 9, 2014 by Rocky Lionmouth

[dust]

It's been said that when a Buddhist is angry, he knows he's angry! So what about Taoists?

What is this like? How do you feel? How does your anger affect you? Is your thinking affected, e.g. can you think clearly? How are you able to handle your anger? How does this compare with before you became Taoist?

 

Neither Taoism nor Buddhism is a cult where every member ends up sharing the same brain and doing the same things. There's no strict code of ethics in Taoist philosophy. Though there is a shared desire to be more tranquil, I guess.

 

Members here on TTB follow vastly different practices and have unique experiences, and all are human. And not every person who calls herself 'Taoist' is at the same stage of development/cultivation... a wise old master like Laozi might have been tranquil and easy-going, but most 'Taoists' are just ordinary people who are trying to find harmony.

 

I can have a terrible temper, and since I started focusing on Laozi's philosophy, combined with some qigong and other meditation & breathing exercises, I've managed to gain a lot of self-awareness and some control over my anger response. But if I saw someone punching a baby in the face, I'd get angry, and I'd have very little control.

 

I doubt if even Laozi himself, for all his suggestion to be impartial and placid, would've been so inhuman as to not get angry over things like that...

[3bob]

I imagine Laozi, if in the vicinity and as an advanced being probably would have intercepted such an event and more or less nipped it in the bud before it blossomed to such a point of violence against a child. (along the lines of doing so called small things which take care of or intercept certain big things before they get out of hand)

[Bearded Dragon]

Anger is sometimes the fastest and most direct tool to get your point across. You just have to use it rather than let it use you.

[sillybearhappyhoneyeater]

I used to try to use all kinds of qi gong and meditation methods to control bad emotions (suffering from crazy culture shock when I first moved to Shanghai), but when I told my teacher, he said "personally, if I am angry, I just let it happen. I prefer to stay natural." I asked him if he controls himself when he is angry and arguing and he said "yes, I force myself not to move. I sit in a chair to stop myself from walking around and wasting energy."

 

[Rara]

Anger is sometimes the fastest and most direct tool to get your point across. You just have to use it rather than let it use you.

I've had a chat to my Kung Fu teacher about this.

 

If we need to remain calm, yet fight with intent, can we call this anger?

 

What is the difference? It takes some sort of assertiveness to attack, that can be likened to anger. Happiness won't let you hit someone in a self-defence situation.

 

Maybe it's not anger...but the feeling cannot be spoken...

[dust]

I imagine Laozi, if in the vicinity and as an advanced being probably would have intercepted such an event and more or less nipped it in the bud before it blossomed to such a point of violence against a child. (along the lines of doing so called small things which take care of or intercept certain big things before they get out of hand)

 

Ahh...

 

The scenario was something I felt was serious and unlikely -- it wasn't intended as a realistic example, but simply something that would almost certainly inspire anger in most people if witnessed.

 

That said, I don't know that Laozi was some kind of demigod who could perceive all possible actions and outcomes of every situation and manipulate people as he liked...

[BaguaKicksAss]

With Taoists, as well as Buddhists, there are different levels of the practice as well as cultivation. Not every Taoist is a master (yet). Even masters though end up angry once in a blue moon. There are also levels of anger. Also important to note is that all the inner peace which comes about from the practices really does lessen negative thoughts and emotions naturally.

[silent thunder]

For me, recently every emotional storm is potential healing. Each annoyance is a gift.

They're like a great big finger pointing out to my awareness... where I have blockage.

My practice and cultivation has a design to foster heightened awareness in the present, which like Chang alluded to in his post, brings me from unconscious to conscious, which like alchemy, utterly transforms the experience and often the result.

 

Being Taoist, Buddhist, or any other 'ist' name we can call ourselves is not a claim of success and a proclamation of 'mission accomplished' in my opinion, or at least in my case. Rather, it's a declaration of my intent to get beyond the point where these clouds control my experience of life and a descriptor of the path I am attempting said intent with...

[Marblehead]

I've had a chat to my Kung Fu teacher about this.

 

If we need to remain calm, yet fight with intent, can we call this anger?

 

What is the difference? It takes some sort of assertiveness to attack, that can be likened to anger. Happiness won't let you hit someone in a self-defence situation.

 

Maybe it's not anger...but the feeling cannot be spoken...

Be careful with this. The instinct of survival, self-preservation, never need be associated with anger. It's just something that needs be done.

[Silent Answers]

I think you've misunderstood a small but crucial point to the statement about Buddhist anger.

 

The same thing will apply to Taoists

[ChiDragon]

Anger is human nature but it would be an unnatural thing to a Taoist. To easy or minimize anger to zero is part of the Taoist cultivation. Taoist cultivation involves some work done with the mind and body and assure that no interruption which might cause anger.

Edited December 9, 2014 by ChiDragon

[Flolfolil]

...

Edited March 5, 2015 by Flolfolil

[ChiDragon]

a real taoist would never get angry, ever. if you are angry that makes you not a taoist

 

I thought you said no one can be a Taoist in another thread....!!!

[Flolfolil]

...

Edited March 5, 2015 by Flolfolil

[Taomeow]

a real taoist would never get angry, ever. if you are angry that makes you not a taoist

 

One of the first things I learned about taoism, before practice, teachers, etc., was that taoists get angry -- it was spelled out in the first book I read on the subject, The Wandering Taoist. The young protagonist first observes an acolyte who is in charge of taking him to the monastery where he is to study with the master get angry and yell when someone cuts into a line of people waiting patiently for their turn to get on a ferry, if I remember correctly. "Saihung realized that this anger, too, is taoism." Later, when the war breaks out and the Japanese troops commit horrible atrocities against Chinese civilians, the protagonist runs away from the monastery and joins the military, propelled by burning anger, which in this case is the active side of compassion. This, too, is taoism.

 

If my very first newbie exposure told me instead that "taoists never get angry ever, if you are angry that makes you not a taoist," I would have dismissed the whole taoist thing without any further explorations, because it would tell me I'm dealing with new age conditioning cointelpro.

 

Anger is not unnatural and, like all things natural, it isn't, it can't be, "always wrong." Tao invented it for a reason. What's unnatural is being forced to suppress it completely when you're a child; consequently being completely unable to either control it or express it as an adult; having disproportionate anger accumulated inside which takes the reigns of your soul every time it is aroused; having no awareness of it; and above all, unconsciously misplacing the real source of one's anger (e.g. taking out on your dependents -- children, employees, weaker people -- what you dared not express to your abusive father.)

 

I observe, on a sadly regular basis, extremely angry people who either don't know they're angry or choose to pretend they aren't, without possessing enough tools of dissimulation to hide it from an observant student of human emotional expression and suppression. To such an observer, their purportedly nonexistent anger bursts out of all seams, it's in their facial freeze, the smile that looks like a snarl, the body language of a pressure cooker, everything. A taoist would never be this way, that's one thing I promise.

[dust]

Anger is not unnatural and, like all things natural, it isn't, it can't be, "always wrong."

Right

 

Tao invented it for a reason.

Personally I'd choose a different word than 'invent' but basically, yes

 

What's unnatural is being forced to suppress it completely when you're a child; consequently being completely unable to either control it or express it as an adult; having disproportionate anger accumulated inside which takes the reigns of your soul every time it is aroused; having no awareness of it; and above all, unconsciously misplacing the real source of one's anger (e.g. taking out on your dependents -- children, employees, weaker people -- what you dared not express to your abusive father.)

Yes. My parents have always been wonderful, but teachers and social custom generally have been a hindrance

 

 

 

So I have a related question, which I was wondering about a creating a topic for, but now this topic is here:

 

What about hatred?

 

If anger is natural, and should (when necessary) be expressed healthily in order to control it healthily, should we also allow ourselves to hate?

[3bob]

Ahh...

 

The scenario was something I felt was serious and unlikely -- it wasn't intended as a realistic example, but simply something that would almost certainly inspire anger in most people if witnessed.

 

That said, I don't know that Laozi was some kind of demigod who could perceive all possible actions and outcomes of every situation and manipulate people as he liked...

 

In my definition a great Taoist Sage has gone or advanced beyond the realm of the gods and whatever their limits may be?

Thus one with Tao without any designs (of their own), even the heavenly designs of the gods.

Edited December 9, 2014 by 3bob