How would a Taoist handle these situations?

nantogph · December 11, 2014

1. A student's friends have tried smoking pot and are trying to get them to start.
2. A student has just found $100 in the hall
3. A student knows that a friend is cheating on tests
4. A student sees an opportunity to take something they have really wanted, without being caught

Edited December 11, 2014 by nantogph

Taomeow · December 11, 2014

1. A student's friends have tried smoking pot and are trying to get them to start.

2. A student has just found $100 in the hall

3. A student knows that a friend is cheating on tests

4. A student sees an opportunity to take something they have really wanted, without being caught

1. Don't make a big production. Shrug it off. Let the student figure it out for himself.

2. Instruct the student to thank the spirits -- unless the student has a way of knowing whose money it is, in which case it should be returned to the owner.

3. Depends on the culture. Some cultures encourage ratting out the cheater. Some never side with the institution against the individual, regardless of the extent of the individual's transgression, and despise the snitch more than the cheater. Some punish the cheater too severely, some punish the snitch too severely. Ask the student to figure out what type of culture he's in, and whether he likes its general approach to these matters. If he does, encourage him to follow his culture's expectations. If he does not, encourage him to choose his battles wisely.

4. Don't.

nantogph · December 11, 2014

1. Don't make a big production. Shrug it off. Let the student figure it out for himself.

2. Instruct the student to thank the spirits -- unless the student has a way of knowing whose money it is, in which case it should be returned to the owner.

3. Depends on the culture. Some cultures encourage ratting out the cheater. Some never side with the institution against the individual, regardless of the extent of the individual's transgression, and despise the snitch more than the cheater. Some punish the cheater too severely, some punish the snitch too severely. Ask the student to figure out what type of culture he's in, and whether he likes its general approach to these matters. If he does, encourage him to follow his culture's expectations. If he does not, encourage him to choose his battles wisely.

4. Don't.

I like it.....

dust · December 11, 2014

2. Pur-chase one of these bad boys to show everyone he's a real Taoist, yo

il_570xN.448802984_9d4b.jpg

dust · December 11, 2014

Actually that was a joke but now I kinda want one

nestentrie · December 11, 2014

Why should I care about a student?

Marblehead · December 11, 2014

Actually that was a joke but now I kinda want one

Me too!

Rocky Lionmouth · December 11, 2014

Bling is always correct for street credibility but the question ensues: are hats no longer a viable mean of asserting ones genuinity and realness? If that is the case i want out immediately.

soaring crane · December 11, 2014

1. A student's friends have tried smoking pot and are trying to get them to start.

2. A student has just found $100 in the hall

3. A student knows that a friend is cheating on tests

4. A student sees an opportunity to take something they have really wanted, without being caught

1. Smile politely

2. Smile politely

3. Smile politely

4. Frown and click the tongue

Taomeow · December 11, 2014

1. Smile politely

2. Smile politely

3. Smile politely

4. Frown and click the tongue

Your taoist said exactly what mine did, except my taoist learned from a teacher who explains things, and yours has learned from a teacher who doesn't speak much English.

soaring crane · December 11, 2014

Your taoist said exactly what mine did, except my taoist learned from a teacher who explains things, and yours has learned from a teacher who doesn't speak much English.

Freundlich lächeln

Michael Sternbach · December 11, 2014

I feel that your questions are aimed at figuring out if Taoism is about ethics/morals. My answer to this is: No, not in the ordinary sense. The actions of a person at one with Tao will naturally and spontaneously tend to be constructive, but they are not dictated by a rigid codex of morals. It's just that the integrated individual happens to have an integrative influence. Their actions may or may not be seen as moral by the standard of others (depending on their personal outlook and understanding of the situation). While a moral person in the usual sense tends to go through life with a rational set of dos and don'ts, a Taoist would go with what feels right in light of the given situation.

To quote from the TTC, CHAPTER 18 (translated by Isabella Mears):

Great Tao lost,

There came the duty to man and right conduct.

Wisdom and shrewdness appearing,

There came great hypocrisy.

The six relationships inharmonious,

There came filial piety deep, deep in the heart.

Kingdoms, families, and clans at war,

There came loyal Ministers.

To address your questions:

1. A student's friends have tried smoking pot and are trying to get them to start.

Quite a few people on this forum are not totally inexperienced in this respect. The occasional use of psychotropic substances is not necessarily in contradiction to a Taoist way of life. Surely it only gets you so far. Only if the use of psychedelic substances goes out of hand (i.e., the person becomes an addict), there would be reason for concern from a Taoist perspective. Certainly, denial of problems that need to be addressed, and abuse of oneself and/or others is not in accordance with a Tao way of living.

2. A student has just found $100 in the hall

Unless I would know who has lost the $ 100, I would silently say "thanks" to whoever unknowingly left them on the ground for me to find, as well as to the Tao perhaps helping me out this way. I have personally been on the losing as well as on the finding side a few times...

3. A student knows that a friend is cheating on tests

Generally, I wouldn't advise to get involved with things none of one's business. If it was about a close friend whose future development I was rightfully concerned with, I would highlight the Taoist teaching to be one with one's actions; learning should be done with commitment and out of an interest to broaden one's horizon then. The student cheating in a test may really be cheating themselves, after all, even more so if they resort to it on a regular base. This may also indicate problems dealing with challenging situations in general.

4. A student sees an opportunity to take something they have really wanted, without being caught

Again, the question is a little too general in order to cover each and every conceivable situation. But in most circumstances, I, too, would say: Don't.

子泰 · December 12, 2014

Depends on the Taoist, really.

woodcarver · December 12, 2014

Are you a concerned parent?

woodcarver · December 12, 2014

Look mom, you're really ringing us out for info and I'm sure most of the users here are happy to answer... But I'll answer all of you're future questions the taoist way:

It's going to be alright. Remember how things were bad but they're alright now? That continues to happen.

Daeluin · December 12, 2014

1. A student's friends have tried smoking pot and are trying to get them to start.

Trust them to do what is best for them.

If they come asking for advice, ask them what their heart tells them is best.

Suggest they follow what serves them, and stop following what doesn't.

2. A student has just found $100 in the hall

Trust them to do what is best for them.

If they come asking about morales, ask them to trust the action their heart advises and don't look back.

3. A student knows that a friend is cheating on tests

Trust them to do what is best for them.

If they come asking if they should tell someone, suggest to them to trust others to do what is right for them without judgement, allowing them to return their focus to what is internal. The tao balances all without intervention. The best we can do is to radiate trust to all things.

4. A student sees an opportunity to take something they have really wanted, without being caught

Same as 3.

It is easy for judgment (metal phase) to result in action that further complicates an issue. Even when something is noticeably imbalanced, trusting that process to do what it needs will allow it to come to completion faster. If it truly lacks balance, this will become evident, and our trust helps it to explore this without expectation. Often external expectation is what creates and maintains imbalances in the first place. So long as these expectations remain they provide a means for maintaining the imbalanced cycles and avoid facing the truth.

If people are open to changing, pointing that intention to their heart helps them claim their own responsibility rather than depending on that of another. If people are closed, offering suggestions will only clash with their defences without penetrating to the root unless force is used. If force is used by an external agent, what happens when that external agent is not present to maintain the discipline?

Trusting helps to dissolve walls and creates harmony and openness. Trusting unconditionally in all directions nurtures even that which we are not aware of. Trust is love and compassion without expectation.

thelerner · December 12, 2014

From my many years spent in a Taoist monastery. I'd say:

1. kick'em in the balls.

3. kick'em in the balls.

4. kick'em in the balls.

2. kick'em in the balls and take the $100.

well that was easy.

its a friday afternoon. don't u judge me.

later addition> here's how I'd answer them

1> Don't do the crime if you can't do the time. ie Do you know the penalty if your caught? Is it worth it? Do you know the risks involved? In otherwords I'd go all Socratic on his ass.

2> My kid found $100 bill on the street, they decided to give it to the police. 6 months later it was unclaimed and they got it back! Worked out well.

3> This presents a chance for another, 'You only cheat yourself' dialogue. Take the easy way out to much and it catches up to you. Usually its a bad idea.

4>A chance for another, 'We create the World' dialogue; a good world by doing positive things and being honest or a poor one taking advantage of other people..

Edited December 15, 2014 by thelerner

ChiDragon · December 13, 2014

From my many years spent in a Taoist monastery. I'd say:

1. kick'em in the balls.

3. kick'em in the balls.

4. kick'em in the balls.

2. kick'em in the balls and take the $100.

well that was easy.

its a friday afternoon. don't u judge me.

Is that what they teach in a Taoist monastery....???

woodcarver · December 13, 2014

Is that what they teach in a Taoist monastery....???

I hear it's acceptable in kung fu

Rocky Lionmouth · December 13, 2014

I thought Team Iron Crotch was a Shaolin thing?

sillybearhappyhoneyeater · December 13, 2014

other than asking the obvious: how would you personally do it?

here is my take, not from a daoist standpoint, but from a personal one (which is all we can ever actually do, regardless of religious affiliation)

firstly, is the student a family member? how close is this relationship?

should you be interfering in this person's life, or just let them take action by themselves (action without action)

it sounds like this is either a highschool or similar situation, is that correct?

1. A student's friends have tried smoking pot and are trying to get them to start.

I think we all have to be realistic about marijuana smoking in the western world.

this is a very common behaviour, and most people start before twenty years of age.

in Canada, I believe the statistic is that about 30% of people have smoked pot and something like 5% do it often.

having said that, Marijuana can be a very dangerous substance if not well controlled.

If I had a son who demanded to try refer and i didn't believe i could stop him, I would demand the following:

- he bring the drug home for me to look at before he smokes it

- we put a little bit of it on a metal or ceramic surface and like it on fire so the smoke rises up for him to be able to smell before he smokes it.

- if it smelled like it had chemicals on it, we would throw it away.
- we would talk about why he wants to smoke pot (this ideally should happen well before the pot comes home) and he would give me all of his reasons in written form. we would argue the point to be absolutely sure he wanted to try it

- if he got to the point where he actually really wanted to smoke the stuff, all information being set out, including positive and negative effects of smoking (anything, but of course pot especially) then at that point I would find a relatively low impact way for him to try it.

A good example would be to take a very small amount and put it into a ceramic (ceramic doesn't give off other chemicals that could further damage him) pipe, mix it with some tea, or some other benign plant and let him smoke a very small amount.

- have him stay in a room in the house by himself for an hour with no access to electronic devices or other people unless he was panicking and needed assistance.

- after the buzz wears off, make him write down all of his observations and write an essay about what he felt the effect of the pot was. he would be required to share this with me and we would talk about it afterward.
- if he still wanted to try it again, we would set out guidelines and rules under which he were allowed to smoke, and if he were not to follow them, there would be some form of consequence which he would have to sign in a contract with me.
so on and so forth.

I don't believe in using entheogens in irresponsible ways, and as such, if his friend wanted to smoke with him, they would be required to do it under my supervision.

alcohol should be introduced in a similar.

responsible introspection produces responsible people.

2. A student has just found $100 in the hall

this is at a public school?

obviously this money has to be held on to by the superiors of the school,

and unless you are a superior, it is not your business beyond that point.

and if you are, you bloody well better know how to deal with this situation.

3. A student knows that a friend is cheating on tests

so what?

you will never fix this kind of behaviour. you can't study everyone and everything.

in this case, if the student feels this is morally not ok, he will report it. If not, he won't.
4. A student sees an opportunity to take something they have really wanted, without being caught

in a natural situation, only the student knows about this, or is caught.

if caught, they are censured in some way. the way they are dealt with depends on rules in the school. a compassionate administrator will act according to the case.

Harmonious Emptiness · December 13, 2014

1. A student's friends have tried smoking pot and are trying to get them to start.

2. A student has just found $100 in the hall

3. A student knows that a friend is cheating on tests

4. A student sees an opportunity to take something they have really wanted, without being caught

1. Well, some might consider me a Daoist, and I might say to the coerced student that he should worry more about who his friends are than whether or not he smokes pot, and that it's not worth smoking pot to have friends that don't want you to walk your own path.

2. see post #2

3. If he can, try to help the friend by tutoring him.

4. Would need more information to answer that, but remind the student that compromising their virtue will not afford them the enduring luck and destiny that virtuous living brings.

Edited December 13, 2014 by Harmonious Emptiness